Ciri in Netflix Witcher series probably won't be white

7Z7

Member
May 30, 2018
117
lmao I was kind of taking you seriously until this nonsense as if changing one of the few black superheroes to another ethnicity is anything remotely similar to the overwhelmingly white rest of fiction
This is one example among many. Of course it's not going to happen (and fortunately!)

It's just to illustrate an opposite effect. If a black character turns white, if there are complaints, will it also be considered racism?
 
Oct 27, 2017
561
I'm not a big fan when you don't respect an original work to adapt to today's society by offering what seems to be a quota to be respected to please everyone.

Beyond The Witcher, I see original characters seeing their origins modified. We see female heroes from DC Comics becoming transsexuals, characters becoming black or Asian. It gives too much of an impression of wanting to give oneself a good image to please society.

Instead of modifying characters like we do with Ciri or like MJ in Spider Man which goes from redhead to black, why don't we create new characters? We often talk about changing the ethnicities of well-known heroes, but we never talk about the possibility of creating a new black or LGBT superhero or whatever. The imagination is infinite then instead of wanting to change absolutely everything that is already invented, let's create new characters. Heroes like Black Panther, I ask for more of them because they are so incredible.

Moreover, the opposite effect is never mentioned: How would the world react if Black Panther became white?

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the result even if adaptations of this kind are never a great success. Maybe Netflix will do a better job of it.
It's easy to say things like this from a position of overrepresentation.

These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation.

Marginalized groups don't have the privilege to say "leave the characters as they are" cause there are almost no characters representing them in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
Ann Arbor, MI
The part of NYC Peter is from is faaaaaar less white than it was 20 years ago, let alone 50 years ago when the comic was starting. In reality a character like MJ would likely not be white in a 2018. And Homecoming reflects this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,475
This is one example among many. Of course it's not going to happen (and fortunately!)

It's just to illustrate an opposite effect. If a black character turns white, if there are complaints, will it also be considered racism?
No it's not one example among many because you didn't even read my post. There is no comparison there

And no black people complaining about one of their few superheroes being changed would not be racist. Yes, people complaining with inconsistent logic and shoddy reasoning reeks of racist undertones in the case of a generic white character being changed
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
Ann Arbor, MI
This is one example among many. Of course it's not going to happen (and fortunately!)

It's just to illustrate an opposite effect. If a black character turns white, if there are complaints, will it also be considered racism?
You are missing the point entirely.

Diversity in media is to reflect society. As a species we are becoming less white every day. White is the slowest growing race on the planet and will be the minority in America by 2045 for example.

Diversity in media is done not to "change races" just because. It is done to better reflect society, to better reflect how people actually look. Changing a minority to white is the exact opposite of this. Its a moral and ethical imperative to try and reflect how society is changing and have our media look more like how the audience actually looks. Thinking it is comparable means you don't understand the point of increased diversity in media.
 
Jun 7, 2018
472
I'm not a big fan when you don't respect an original work to adapt to today's society by offering what seems to be a quota to be respected to please everyone.

Beyond The Witcher, I see original characters seeing their origins modified. We see female heroes from DC Comics becoming transsexuals, characters becoming black or Asian. It gives too much of an impression of wanting to give oneself a good image to please society.

Instead of modifying characters like we do with Ciri or like MJ in Spider Man which goes from redhead to black, why don't we create new characters? We often talk about changing the ethnicities of well-known heroes, but we never talk about the possibility of creating a new black or LGBT superhero or whatever. The imagination is infinite then instead of wanting to change absolutely everything that is already invented, let's create new characters. Heroes like Black Panther, I ask for more of them because they are so incredible.

Moreover, the opposite effect is never mentioned: How would the world react if Black Panther became white?

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the result even if adaptations of this kind are never a great success. Maybe Netflix will do a better job of it.
The purpose of certain books, comic books, and other general media over the years has been to make the people reading / watching them feel more powerful than they really are and allow them to overcome certain aspects of their lives. Why can't LGBT, Black, Spanish, Asian, etc people be portrayed as Ciri, Wolverine, Cyclops, Spiderman, MJ, or Batman? The more relatable an icon is to any person, the more that person can get into the character. Personally, I don't relate to any of what I've mentioned, but who am I to take away some of characters I enjoy and make them unrelatable to others? Anywho, that's my take on it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,881
Canada
It's easy to say things like this from a position of overrepresentation.

These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation.

Marginalized groups don't have the privilege to say "leave the characters as they are" cause there are almost no characters representing them in the first place.

Bravo, well said.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
Ann Arbor, MI
It's easy to say things like this from a position of overrepresentation.

These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation.

Marginalized groups don't have the privilege to say "leave the characters as they are" cause there are almost no characters representing them in the first place.
This is a brilliant post. Thank you.
 
Nov 8, 2017
16
User Banned (Permanent): Trolling and downplaying diversity and inclusivity efforts, low post count.
These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation..
Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
Ann Arbor, MI
Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.
Poland, like much of the west has had its fair share of incidents of racism towards black people.
One of the high-profile events regarding blacks in Poland was the death of Maxwell Itoya in 2010, a Nigerian street vendor from a mixed marriage who was selling counterfeit goods.He was shot in the upper leg by a policeman during a street brawl that followed a screening check at a market in Warsaw and died of a severed artery. The event led to a media debate regarding policing and racism.

There have been other cases of violence against blacks in recent years. In Strzelce Opolskie, Black soccer players from LZS Piotrówka club were attacked in a bar by fans of the opposing team in 2015 and two young men were arrested In a Łódź dance-club, a black student was attacked in a men's washroom.
Not that it matters because this show is from a US based production studio and Witcher is not based in Poland.
 

Vela

Alt Account
Member
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.
you see who's in government these days? and the rise of neo-nazis and heavy anti-black and anti-black racism pervading Polish society?

If anything, Poland needs a big dose of distilled blackness into their white veins to get accustomed to a non-white world.
 
Nov 8, 2017
16
Poland, like much of the west has had its fair share of incidents of racism towards black people.

Not that it matters because this show is from a US based production studio and Witcher is not based in Poland.
So if you are quoting Wikipedia, I presume you can see also one little snippet above.
Poland was under German and Soviet occupation during World War II. At this period Polish people were harshly discriminated against in their own occupied country. The Nazi German regime saw the Poles as "subhumans" (untermenschen) and were fit only for slavery and extermination. Most of the Nazis considered the Poles, like the majority of other Slavs, to be non-Aryan and non-European "masses from the East" which should be either totally annihilated along with the Jews and Gypsies, or entirely expelled from the European continent. Poles were the victims of Nazi crimes against humanity and they were also the main non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust. Approximately 2.5 million ethnic Poles were exterminated during World War II.
How nice of you to focus on three isolant cases and sweep 2,5 million of systematic cleansing under the rug.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
Ann Arbor, MI
So if you are quoting Wikipedia, I presume you can see also one little snippet above.

How nice of you to focus on three isolant cases and sweep 2,5 million of systematic cleansing under the rug.
To deny anyone from a country can be racist because they went through the awful ordeal that was Nazi control and the holocaust is absurd. Entire nations of people don't get a free pass from ever being accused institutionalized racism which is evident in all of the west. There is institutionalized pro-white racism in eastern Europe. To deny it is absurd. It is a plague that infects every majority white nation.

Not to mention it doesn't matter because The Witcher is not based in Poland nor is this a Polish production.
 
Oct 27, 2017
561
Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.
First off I'll say that I'm disgusted by the fact that I'm even going to entertain this dumb shit, but here goes.....

The post of mine you quoted was talking about popular characters in general, not just the witcher or Poland in particular. Second, there are no polish people in the Witcher and the game is not set in Poland, so I'm not sure why you would even try to stand on this point. Lastly, this book was not written in ancient times. It was written in modern times for a modern audience in which race/racism is a huge factor in how characters are received.

So yeah, your question purposely attempts to obfuscate the point I made, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

If you wanna out yourself as a racist, just do it. No need for the mental gymnastics. People are smart enough to see through that.
 
Nov 8, 2017
16
The post of mine you quoted was talking about popular characters in general, not just the witcher or Poland in particular.
If you are not talking about it in particular, you should not use generalization, otherwise it looks like you are accusing Sapkowski of writing his characters white because of him holding racist views and accusing Poland in systematic racism, whereas it actually tremendously suffered from it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,154
Ah yes, cause these authors can truly voice their opinion without being murdered on twitter and journalist sites with countless articles if they speak against it.
The thought of Sapek giving a fuck about any of that is hilarious, I guess. Hint: he doesn't. If he was in any way displeased and somebody asked him about it, you'd know.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,463
Ah yes, cause these authors can truly voice their opinion without being murdered on twitter and journalist sites with countless articles if they speak against it.
Ah Yes, the meek and shy Sapkowski.

Where are people getting this specific talking point about the author being held hostage again?
 
Oct 27, 2017
561
If you are not talking about it in particular, you should not use generalization, otherwise it looks like you are accusing Sapkowski of writing his characters white because of him holding racist views and accusing Poland in systematic racism, whereas it actually tremendously suffered from it.
Again. Read my post and the one I was replying to. The conversation was about the race of characters in general. My post only referenced America specifically and THE ENTIRE WORLD generally. And I never implied any of this nonsense you posted here.

If that's what you saw in my post, then you need to ask yourself why you would see it.

On the topic of Sapkowski and Poland specifically. The book was written during a time when racial tensions were high in Poland and around the world. So it's inevitable that his work was influenced by that fact. That doesnt make him a racist, but a citizen of the world.

Furthermore as far as I can tell he didn't write in a "race" for his characters. Some had descriptions like Geralt being the "white wolf" for the rest of them skin color was not a focus.

So again your line of questioning and your subsequent follow ups show a severe lack of understanding of what the fuck you are talking about, and an effort to distract from the idea of increasing diversity in media.

You should be ashamed. Go away.
 
Oct 27, 2017
561
That post specifically mentioned Ciri among others.

To which you replied with "these characters". Did that meant "all mentioned characters except Ciri"?
This is why I should have just ignored you.

Feign ignorance to perpetuate racism.

Disgusting behavior.

That guy got banned for his shit. You latching on to his dumb shit. I hope you are next.
 

Benditormenta

Banned
Member
Nov 25, 2017
143
You are missing the point entirely.

Diversity in media is done not to "change races" just because. It is done to better reflect society, to better reflect how people actually look.
First of all, sorry for my horrible english.

Said that, I don't get your point. Why a writer "need" to reflect the diversity of the actual society in a fantasy novel, set in a fictional universe, whose purpose is nothing but offer enterteinment to the people? I mean, this is not an educational work or something, just a personal vision of a man who just wanted to transcribe his fictional universe into paper (and earn some money of course xd).

I understand that someone wants a white Ciri, as I understand that others wants a Ciri from another etnicity. Some people don't care about that matter as long as the actress plays her role well. Everyone has his own opinion, and that's perfectly normal and understandable, as long as that opinion is expressed publicly in a respectful manner, of course.

Honestly, I don't care if Ciri is white, black or wathever race they choose. I just want a great actress.
 
Nov 8, 2017
16
What else am I supposed to understand by yours "these characters" if not the characters specifically mentioned by the user you replied to? Otherwise you are saying that every white character ever created was created white out of racism.
These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be.
The conversation was about the race of characters in general. My post only referenced America specifically and THE ENTIRE WORLD generally.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,154
Said that, I don't get your point. Why a writer "need" to reflect the diversity of the actual society in a fantasy novel, set in a fictional universe, whose purpose is nothing but offer enterteinment to the people? I mean, this is not an educational work or something, just a personal vision of a man who just wanted to transcribe his fictional universe into paper (and earn some money of course xd).
They writer doesn't need to (especially if the writer's primary audience is majority white), but you should not be surprised when an adaptation by a western studio changes the race of some characters to better reflect their primary audience. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.
 
Oct 27, 2017
561
What else am I supposed to understand by yours "these characters" if not the characters specifically mentioned by the user you replied to? Otherwise you are saying that every white character ever created was created white out of racism.
The poster I replied to referenced "D.C. Characters" and "other characters".

Their post was "in general". My reply was the same.

And again the random conclusion you you made up is born out of your own racism. Not anything I said.
 

Benditormenta

Banned
Member
Nov 25, 2017
143
They writer doesn't need to (especially if the writer's primary audience is majority white), but you should not be surprised when an adaptation by a western studio changes the race of some characters to better reflect their primary audience. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.
Well yeah, I understand that. And it's their own vision of this fictional universe, so they can change whatever they want (whit limits I mean). And I prefer that way, because we'll have two versions of this work: the one from Sapkowski in the original books, and the one from the responsibles of the series.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,519
Can a mod close this thread at this point? It's providing zero insight or constructive discussion at this point because neither side is going to budge and we are literally circling around the same cycle of dude comes in with 'not racism' concerns, people point out why it's being done or how it shouldn't matter, and they continue to tip toe around it until eventually they get banned when they trip up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
740
US
Feb 16, 2018
96
Oct 27, 2017
2,463
There is a rumor that is going around, which originated from the same source that named Henry Cavill Geralt before it was confirmed, of a young English actress of Indian decent being cast as Yennifer.

It doesn't make sense to me due to her age but why would they make something up about an unknown?

https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9eh0ge/rumor_anya_chalotra_is_yennefer_netflix_witcher/

Wouldn't put much stock in it
Hm. No opinion on this since I'm not familiar with her work. She looks young which isn't inherently a problem since Yen doesn't age, but her character has an outsized and intimidating personality, and that's what I hope comes across.
 
Nov 15, 2017
552
Yennefer has also had the equivalent of magical reconstructive surgery seeing as she was born a hunchback.

As an aside, this thread sure did exploooode.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
Ann Arbor, MI
I think I'm going to vomit. Are you a black supremacist?
You are going to vomit because he thinks Poland would be better with more diversity? What?????

Every society improves the more diverse it is. Diversity is a fantastic thing. The less homogeneous we are the better we are as a culture and people. This proven time and time again.
 
Nov 8, 2017
362
I think it would be a lot easier to do this with Yen, Triss or any number of other characters instead of Ciri, whose ethnicity is a relevant plot point that ties into many others. Nilfgaard is basically based on Germany and her heritage is tied to that. I think someone else pointed out that it would basically be like making Jon Snow from GoT black, which i think is a pretty good analogy. Furthermore, i disagree with tagging poles as some kind of "white majority" and projecting onto them american baggage so to speak. They are a marginalized country in the middle of europe, they have never gotten something this big that comes this close to being "theirs". Sapkowiskis work is fiction, but it draws heavily of polish and slavic culture, Temerias fate mirrors Polands in many ways, the themes are heavily rooted in polish history and their struggles (except the added fantastical elements of course), hell, even cities such as novigrad are basically based on polish cities (Gdansk), so I its perfectly valid to think that this is the wrong choice for this particular series.
 
Nov 15, 2017
552
You don't like them I assume? =D I haven't seen them but would love to, just bit difficult to see them here in Finland. From what I've gathered the series is better?

Edit: Welp. Someone has actually uploaded it to Youtube with subtitles, all the episodes. Would still prefer official release, the video quality is bad too.
Apparently its pretty common for the dislike of that show. Personally I'm glad they tried you know? In Poland, this series is basically Lord of the Rings-like famous and popular. The person they cast as Geralt has the look one would expect and from skimming through it, they followed the book plots close enough including even the famous parts where Geralt first meets Ciri's parents when Emhyr (AKA, Duny) is cursed into a shapeshifted form. The costume work looks decent and music seems right for the setting.

Pavetta



Duny



Basically your typical Medieval Europe Fantasy casting for the mixture of mythos Witcher combines (Slavic, German, Norwegian, Celtic, etc.), most of which was completely new to me having really never read any Slavic Mythology, at least, before The Witcher. "Vedmak" - proto-slavic for "to know" and old Russian for "knowledge" and "witchcraft" , hence how English readers were given "The Witcher" in translation.

Anyways, as far as this thread goes, regardless the production for the new show are going to cast who they see as the best fit for each character. If the writing and production values are top notch and they give the actors good material to work with, it should be good. I'm crossing my fingers they follow the story beats of the books as close as they can; for example the 'contracts of the week' in The Last Wish and Sword of Destiny interspersed story parts that hint at things to come in the Saga part. I kind of was hoping they would cast someone like Mikkelson though for Geralt with an awesome Danish accent.

If anyone has seen the TV show Merlin, the casting for Gwen (played by Angel Couby) was pretty good. Typically Gwen has been a lot whiter actresses in the many different movies and other tv shows about King Arthur.
 

Ga'Al

Banned
Member
Jul 28, 2018
19
User Banned (Permanent) Defending racism, low post count.
Geez Cheebo
You are going to vomit because he thinks Poland would be better with more diversity? What?????

Every society improves the more diverse it is. Diversity is a fantastic thing. The less homogeneous we are the better we are as a culture and people. This proven time and time again.

I read the same thing that he wrote and get it completely different, stop distorcing completely what he said and playing the victim to put the other like some devil.

And yet you again completely distorced what the other said for a good thing. The other didn't said "Hey diversity is a good thing u know?" was more like "These *** pollands needs tho chill the f down and accept their culture being changed, we are america baby", that was nothing friendly and didn't contribute either.

I just can't read someone distorce others words and say anything, sorry to the others. I hope I didn't get a ban just for this, cuz after you read certanly I'll ignore u, just hate all kind of injustice.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
Ann Arbor, MI
You too dude, watch what kind off thing u write. Not everyone will understand correctly, especially given ur (supposed German right?) country historic.
There is nothing to understand. It was beyond racist.

He said the idea of a country getting more black makes him want to vomit and threw out a racist term that belittles actual white supremacist hate.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
Ann Arbor, MI
Geez Cheebo



I read the same thing that he wrote and get it completely different, stop distorcing completely what he said and playing the victim to put the other like some devil.

And yet you again completely distorced what the other said for a good thing. The other didn't said "Hey diversity is a good thing u know?" was more like "These *** pollands needs tho chill the f down and accept their culture being changed, we are america baby", that was nothing friendly and didn't contribute either.

I just can't read someone distorce others words and say anything, sorry to the others. I hope I didn't get a ban just for this, cuz after you read certanly I'll ignore u, just hate all kind of injustice.
Saying the idea of a country getting a lot more black makes him want to vomit is racist. Extremely racist. He capped it off by throwing out an extremely racist attack like "black supremacist".

Stop. Explaining. Away. Racism.