1. 7Z7

    7Z7
    Member

    This is one example among many. Of course it's not going to happen (and fortunately!)

    It's just to illustrate an opposite effect. If a black character turns white, if there are complaints, will it also be considered racism?
     
  2. MonsterMech

    MonsterMech
    Member

    It's easy to say things like this from a position of overrepresentation.

    These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation.

    Marginalized groups don't have the privilege to say "leave the characters as they are" cause there are almost no characters representing them in the first place.
     
  3. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    The part of NYC Peter is from is faaaaaar less white than it was 20 years ago, let alone 50 years ago when the comic was starting. In reality a character like MJ would likely not be white in a 2018. And Homecoming reflects this.
     
  4. metalslimer

    metalslimer
    Member

    No it's not one example among many because you didn't even read my post. There is no comparison there

    And no black people complaining about one of their few superheroes being changed would not be racist. Yes, people complaining with inconsistent logic and shoddy reasoning reeks of racist undertones in the case of a generic white character being changed
     
  5. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    You are missing the point entirely.

    Diversity in media is to reflect society. As a species we are becoming less white every day. White is the slowest growing race on the planet and will be the minority in America by 2045 for example.

    Diversity in media is done not to "change races" just because. It is done to better reflect society, to better reflect how people actually look. Changing a minority to white is the exact opposite of this. Its a moral and ethical imperative to try and reflect how society is changing and have our media look more like how the audience actually looks. Thinking it is comparable means you don't understand the point of increased diversity in media.
     
  6. The purpose of certain books, comic books, and other general media over the years has been to make the people reading / watching them feel more powerful than they really are and allow them to overcome certain aspects of their lives. Why can't LGBT, Black, Spanish, Asian, etc people be portrayed as Ciri, Wolverine, Cyclops, Spiderman, MJ, or Batman? The more relatable an icon is to any person, the more that person can get into the character. Personally, I don't relate to any of what I've mentioned, but who am I to take away some of characters I enjoy and make them unrelatable to others? Anywho, that's my take on it.
     
  7. Dice

    Dice
    Member


    Bravo, well said.
     
  8. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    This is a brilliant post. Thank you.
     
  9. GoodMorninPluto

    GoodMorninPluto
    Banned Member

    • User Banned (Permanent): Trolling and downplaying diversity and inclusivity efforts, low post count.
    Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.
     
  10. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    Poland, like much of the west has had its fair share of incidents of racism towards black people.
    Not that it matters because this show is from a US based production studio and Witcher is not based in Poland.
     
  11. Vela

    Vela
    Member

    you see who's in government these days? and the rise of neo-nazis and heavy anti-black and anti-black racism pervading Polish society?

    If anything, Poland needs a big dose of distilled blackness into their white veins to get accustomed to a non-white world.
     
  12. GoodMorninPluto

    GoodMorninPluto
    Banned Member

    So if you are quoting Wikipedia, I presume you can see also one little snippet above.
    How nice of you to focus on three isolant cases and sweep 2,5 million of systematic cleansing under the rug.
     
  13. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    To deny anyone from a country can be racist because they went through the awful ordeal that was Nazi control and the holocaust is absurd. Entire nations of people don't get a free pass from ever being accused institutionalized racism which is evident in all of the west. There is institutionalized pro-white racism in eastern Europe. To deny it is absurd. It is a plague that infects every majority white nation.

    Not to mention it doesn't matter because The Witcher is not based in Poland nor is this a Polish production.
     
  14. MonsterMech

    MonsterMech
    Member

    First off I'll say that I'm disgusted by the fact that I'm even going to entertain this dumb shit, but here goes.....

    The post of mine you quoted was talking about popular characters in general, not just the witcher or Poland in particular. Second, there are no polish people in the Witcher and the game is not set in Poland, so I'm not sure why you would even try to stand on this point. Lastly, this book was not written in ancient times. It was written in modern times for a modern audience in which race/racism is a huge factor in how characters are received.

    So yeah, your question purposely attempts to obfuscate the point I made, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

    If you wanna out yourself as a racist, just do it. No need for the mental gymnastics. People are smart enough to see through that.
     
  15. GoodMorninPluto

    GoodMorninPluto
    Banned Member

    If you are not talking about it in particular, you should not use generalization, otherwise it looks like you are accusing Sapkowski of writing his characters white because of him holding racist views and accusing Poland in systematic racism, whereas it actually tremendously suffered from it.
     
  16. svacina

    svacina
    Member

    The thought of Sapek giving a fuck about any of that is hilarious, I guess. Hint: he doesn't. If he was in any way displeased and somebody asked him about it, you'd know.
     
  17. LiK

    LiK
    Member

    Oh, they’re going for the young Ciri. Hopefully there’s also the adult version.
     
  18. JDSN

    JDSN
    Member

    Ah Yes, the meek and shy Sapkowski.

    Where are people getting this specific talking point about the author being held hostage again?
     
  19. Dice

    Dice
    Member

    Or REFLECT society depending on your perspective. But, c'mon, let's have the straight white people win for change. :P
     
  20. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    It ruins the "true to the books" excuse so they have to create fake conspiracy theories.
     
  21. MonsterMech

    MonsterMech
    Member

    Again. Read my post and the one I was replying to. The conversation was about the race of characters in general. My post only referenced America specifically and THE ENTIRE WORLD generally. And I never implied any of this nonsense you posted here.

    If that's what you saw in my post, then you need to ask yourself why you would see it.

    On the topic of Sapkowski and Poland specifically. The book was written during a time when racial tensions were high in Poland and around the world. So it's inevitable that his work was influenced by that fact. That doesnt make him a racist, but a citizen of the world.

    Furthermore as far as I can tell he didn't write in a "race" for his characters. Some had descriptions like Geralt being the "white wolf" for the rest of them skin color was not a focus.

    So again your line of questioning and your subsequent follow ups show a severe lack of understanding of what the fuck you are talking about, and an effort to distract from the idea of increasing diversity in media.

    You should be ashamed. Go away.
     
  22. GoodMorninPluto

    GoodMorninPluto
    Banned Member

    That post specifically mentioned Ciri among others.
    To which you replied with "these characters". Did that meant "all mentioned characters except Ciri"?
     
  23. MonsterMech

    MonsterMech
    Member

    This is why I should have just ignored you.

    Feign ignorance to perpetuate racism.

    Disgusting behavior.

    That guy got banned for his shit. You latching on to his dumb shit. I hope you are next.
     
  24. Benditormenta

    Benditormenta
    Member

    First of all, sorry for my horrible english.

    Said that, I don't get your point. Why a writer "need" to reflect the diversity of the actual society in a fantasy novel, set in a fictional universe, whose purpose is nothing but offer enterteinment to the people? I mean, this is not an educational work or something, just a personal vision of a man who just wanted to transcribe his fictional universe into paper (and earn some money of course xd).

    I understand that someone wants a white Ciri, as I understand that others wants a Ciri from another etnicity. Some people don't care about that matter as long as the actress plays her role well. Everyone has his own opinion, and that's perfectly normal and understandable, as long as that opinion is expressed publicly in a respectful manner, of course.

    Honestly, I don't care if Ciri is white, black or wathever race they choose. I just want a great actress.
     
  25. GoodMorninPluto

    GoodMorninPluto
    Banned Member

    What else am I supposed to understand by yours "these characters" if not the characters specifically mentioned by the user you replied to? Otherwise you are saying that every white character ever created was created white out of racism.
     
  26. svacina

    svacina
    Member

    They writer doesn't need to (especially if the writer's primary audience is majority white), but you should not be surprised when an adaptation by a western studio changes the race of some characters to better reflect their primary audience. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.
     
  27. Kinsaras

    Kinsaras
    Banned Member

    But what race will Roach be?
     
  28. MonsterMech

    MonsterMech
    Member

    The poster I replied to referenced "D.C. Characters" and "other characters".

    Their post was "in general". My reply was the same.

    And again the random conclusion you you made up is born out of your own racism. Not anything I said.
     
  29. Benditormenta

    Benditormenta
    Member

    Well yeah, I understand that. And it's their own vision of this fictional universe, so they can change whatever they want (whit limits I mean). And I prefer that way, because we'll have two versions of this work: the one from Sapkowski in the original books, and the one from the responsibles of the series.
     
  30. Can a mod close this thread at this point? It's providing zero insight or constructive discussion at this point because neither side is going to budge and we are literally circling around the same cycle of dude comes in with 'not racism' concerns, people point out why it's being done or how it shouldn't matter, and they continue to tip toe around it until eventually they get banned when they trip up.
     
  31. Daniagatha

    Daniagatha
    Member

  32. Pelagic II

    Pelagic II
    Member

  33. Nezacant

    Nezacant
    Member

  34. Daniagatha

    Daniagatha
    Member

    I thought she left the show. Sorry for the misleading post.
     
  35. Stryder

    Stryder
    Member

  36. Parapraxis

    Parapraxis
    Member


    [​IMG]
     
  37. HyGogg

    HyGogg
    Member

    Hm. No opinion on this since I'm not familiar with her work. She looks young which isn't inherently a problem since Yen doesn't age, but her character has an outsized and intimidating personality, and that's what I hope comes across.
     
  38. GenTask

    GenTask
    Member

    Yennefer has also had the equivalent of magical reconstructive surgery seeing as she was born a hunchback.

    As an aside, this thread sure did exploooode.
     
  39. GermanSy

    GermanSy
    Banned Member

    • User Banned (1 Month): Racism, inflammatory accusation.
    I think I'm going to vomit. Are you a black supremacist?
     
  40. Namtab

    Namtab
    Member

    How did you get that out of that post?
     
  41. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    You are going to vomit because he thinks Poland would be better with more diversity? What?????

    Every society improves the more diverse it is. Diversity is a fantastic thing. The less homogeneous we are the better we are as a culture and people. This proven time and time again.
     
  42. Beefy

    Beefy
    Community Resettler Member

    Dudes still getting banned ? Mad

    This thread has been crazy with the amount of racist shit
     
  43. Loanshark

    Loanshark
    Member

    I think it would be a lot easier to do this with Yen, Triss or any number of other characters instead of Ciri, whose ethnicity is a relevant plot point that ties into many others. Nilfgaard is basically based on Germany and her heritage is tied to that. I think someone else pointed out that it would basically be like making Jon Snow from GoT black, which i think is a pretty good analogy. Furthermore, i disagree with tagging poles as some kind of "white majority" and projecting onto them american baggage so to speak. They are a marginalized country in the middle of europe, they have never gotten something this big that comes this close to being "theirs". Sapkowiskis work is fiction, but it draws heavily of polish and slavic culture, Temerias fate mirrors Polands in many ways, the themes are heavily rooted in polish history and their struggles (except the added fantastical elements of course), hell, even cities such as novigrad are basically based on polish cities (Gdansk), so I its perfectly valid to think that this is the wrong choice for this particular series.
     
  44. Beefy

    Beefy
    Community Resettler Member

    Calling diversity propaganda?
     
  45. GenTask

    GenTask
    Member

    Apparently its pretty common for the dislike of that show. Personally I'm glad they tried you know? In Poland, this series is basically Lord of the Rings-like famous and popular. The person they cast as Geralt has the look one would expect and from skimming through it, they followed the book plots close enough including even the famous parts where Geralt first meets Ciri's parents when Emhyr (AKA, Duny) is cursed into a shapeshifted form. The costume work looks decent and music seems right for the setting.

    Pavetta

    [​IMG]

    Duny

    [​IMG]

    Basically your typical Medieval Europe Fantasy casting for the mixture of mythos Witcher combines (Slavic, German, Norwegian, Celtic, etc.), most of which was completely new to me having really never read any Slavic Mythology, at least, before The Witcher. "Vedmak" - proto-slavic for "to know" and old Russian for "knowledge" and "witchcraft" , hence how English readers were given "The Witcher" in translation.

    Anyways, as far as this thread goes, regardless the production for the new show are going to cast who they see as the best fit for each character. If the writing and production values are top notch and they give the actors good material to work with, it should be good. I'm crossing my fingers they follow the story beats of the books as close as they can; for example the 'contracts of the week' in The Last Wish and Sword of Destiny interspersed story parts that hint at things to come in the Saga part. I kind of was hoping they would cast someone like Mikkelson though for Geralt with an awesome Danish accent.

    If anyone has seen the TV show Merlin, the casting for Gwen (played by Angel Couby) was pretty good. Typically Gwen has been a lot whiter actresses in the many different movies and other tv shows about King Arthur.
     
  46. Ga'Al

    Ga'Al
    Banned Member

    • User Banned (Permanent) Defending racism, low post count.
    Geez Cheebo

    I read the same thing that he wrote and get it completely different, stop distorcing completely what he said and playing the victim to put the other like some devil.

    And yet you again completely distorced what the other said for a good thing. The other didn't said "Hey diversity is a good thing u know?" was more like "These *** pollands needs tho chill the f down and accept their culture being changed, we are america baby", that was nothing friendly and didn't contribute either.

    I just can't read someone distorce others words and say anything, sorry to the others. I hope I didn't get a ban just for this, cuz after you read certanly I'll ignore u, just hate all kind of injustice.
     
  47. Ga'Al

    Ga'Al
    Banned Member

    You too dude, watch what kind off thing u write. Not everyone will understand correctly, especially given ur (supposed German right?) country historic.
     
  48. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    There is nothing to understand. It was beyond racist.

    He said the idea of a country getting more black makes him want to vomit and threw out a racist term that belittles actual white supremacist hate.
     
  49. Sephzilla

    Sephzilla
    Member

    i dont think there's anything to misunderstand about that comment
     
  50. Cheebo

    Cheebo
    Member

    Saying the idea of a country getting a lot more black makes him want to vomit is racist. Extremely racist. He capped it off by throwing out an extremely racist attack like "black supremacist".

    Stop. Explaining. Away. Racism.