Ciri in Netflix Witcher series probably won't be white

[Ga'Al]

Geez Cheebo

You are going to vomit because he thinks Poland would be better with more diversity? What?????

Every society improves the more diverse it is. Diversity is a fantastic thing. The less homogeneous we are the better we are as a culture and people. This proven time and time again.

Click to shrink...

I read the same thing that he wrote and get it completely different, stop distorcing completely what he said and playing the victim to put the other like some devil.

And yet you again completely distorced what the other said for a good thing. The other didn't said "Hey diversity is a good thing u know?" was more like "These *** pollands needs tho chill the f down and accept their culture being changed, we are america baby", that was nothing friendly and didn't contribute either.

I just can't read someone distorce others words and say anything, sorry to the others. I hope I didn't get a ban just for this, cuz after you read certanly I'll ignore u, just hate all kind of injustice.

 

[Ga'Al]

I think I'm going to vomit. Are you a black supremacist?

Click to shrink...

You too dude, watch what kind off thing u write. Not everyone will understand correctly, especially given ur (supposed German right?) country historic.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

You too dude, watch what kind off thing u write. Not everyone will understand correctly, especially given ur (supposed German right?) country historic.

Click to shrink...

There is nothing to understand. It was beyond racist.

He said the idea of a country getting more black makes him want to vomit and threw out a racist term that belittles actual white supremacist hate.

 

[Sephzilla]

You too dude, watch what kind off thing u write. Not everyone will understand correctly, especially given ur (supposed German right?) country historic.

Click to shrink...

i dont think there's anything to misunderstand about that comment

 

[Deleted member 5666]

Geez Cheebo



I read the same thing that he wrote and get it completely different, stop distorcing completely what he said and playing the victim to put the other like some devil.

And yet you again completely distorced what the other said for a good thing. The other didn't said "Hey diversity is a good thing u know?" was more like "These *** pollands needs tho chill the f down and accept their culture being changed, we are america baby", that was nothing friendly and didn't contribute either.

I just can't read someone distorce others words and say anything, sorry to the others. I hope I didn't get a ban just for this, cuz after you read certanly I'll ignore u, just hate all kind of injustice.

Click to shrink...

Saying the idea of a country getting a lot more black makes him want to vomit is racist. Extremely racist. He capped it off by throwing out an extremely racist attack like "black supremacist".

Stop. Explaining. Away. Racism.

 

[Ga'Al]

Like I said, I just hate people who distorces things I say. Liars are the kind I hate.

"If anything, Poland needs a big dose of distilled blackness into their white veins to get accustomed to a non-white world."
This is absolutly equal to "Getting a lot more of divercity"

I didn't read all the posts from the other guy, but I sure did saw others ocasions U did the same thing. bye Cheebo it was not a pleasure.

 

[Easy_D]

I'm not a big fan when you don't respect an original work to adapt to today's society by offering what seems to be a quota to be respected to please everyone.

Beyond The Witcher, I see original characters seeing their origins modified. We see female heroes from DC Comics becoming transsexuals, characters becoming black or Asian. It gives too much of an impression of wanting to give oneself a good image to please society.

Instead of modifying characters like we do with Ciri or like MJ in Spider Man which goes from redhead to black, why don't we create new characters? We often talk about changing the ethnicities of well-known heroes, but we never talk about the possibility of creating a new black or LGBT superhero or whatever. The imagination is infinite then instead of wanting to change absolutely everything that is already invented, let's create new characters. Heroes like Black Panther, I ask for more of them because they are so incredible.

Moreover, the opposite effect is never mentioned: How would the world react if Black Panther became white?

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the result even if adaptations of this kind are never a great success. Maybe Netflix will do a better job of it.

Click to shrink...

If they made new characters the narrative would only shift to them "shoehorning" diversity into whatever franchise. "Why not just create something entirely new with these characters"

 

[sabrina]

Like I said, I just hate people who distorces things I say. Liars are the kind I hate.

"If anything, Poland needs a big dose of distilled blackness into their white veins to get accustomed to a non-white world."
This is absolutly equal to "Getting a lot more of divercity"

I didn't read all the posts from the other guy, but I sure did saw others ocasions U did the same thing. bye Cheebo it was not a pleasure.

Click to shrink...

The only person who distorted what you said is you now that you're trying to cover up your tracks. It's as transparent as the fact that so far the only other thread you've earnestly participated in on this site is the Tyler Blevins one, where you defended his sexism.

 

[IvorB]

I think it would be a lot easier to do this with Yen, Triss or any number of other characters instead of Ciri, whose ethnicity is a relevant plot point that ties into many others. Nilfgaard is basically based on Germany and her heritage is tied to that. I think someone else pointed out that it would basically be like making Jon Snow from GoT black, which i think is a pretty good analogy. Furthermore, i disagree with tagging poles as some kind of "white majority" and projecting onto them american baggage so to speak. They are a marginalized country in the middle of europe, they have never gotten something this big that comes this close to being "theirs". Sapkowiskis work is fiction, but it draws heavily of polish and slavic culture, Temerias fate mirrors Polands in many ways, the themes are heavily rooted in polish history and their struggles (except the added fantastical elements of course), hell, even cities such as novigrad are basically based on polish cities (Gdansk), so I its perfectly valid to think that this is the wrong choice for this particular series.

Click to shrink...

'Based on' is not the same as 'set in'. It's not Germany nor Poland so using that as a basis to establish race of the characters is flawed. It's a fictitious setting that is not bound by any geographical rules of the real world. Also you say Poland is not some "white majority" country yet it seems the idea of a person of colour in this role runs so counter to your desire for this to be Poland's own thing. Why does having a person of colour in this role mean the show can no longer be "theirs"?

 

[Benita]

I don't understand, isn't she whitest white in the games? Is she different in the books?

Click to shrink...

She's a fictional character who's skin colour has no bearing on her place in the Witcher universe.

What are you not understanding?

 

[Loanshark]

'Based on' is not the same as 'set in'. It's not Germany nor Poland so using that as a basis to establish race of the characters is flawed. It's a fictitious setting that is not bound by any geographical rules of the real world. Also you say Poland is not some "white majority" country yet it seems the idea of a person of colour in this role runs so counter to your desire for this to be Poland's own thing. Why does having a person of colour in this role mean the show can no longer be "theirs"?

Click to shrink...

You are confusing the points i made. As I said in the first sentance, adding PoC actors is all good, but Ciri is a special case because of her heritage and its ramifications in the story in the source material. The second point was about something different, the tendency to group all white people into the same category and not distinguishing between different countries and cultures, instead just reducing it to a simple racial argument, ie white/non white, and then through that making them complicit in americas inequality problem.

 

[Dust]

I still think this will all come down to "if Ciri is cute/pretty" or not. Even if she is black,asian or latina, she will come unscathed if the internet mob deems her as attractive as the game counterpart.
I doubt there will be uproar if Isabela Moner is cast as her.

Anyway, the shitshow is already unbearable and it's only getting started.

 

[Deleted member 2340]

She's a fictional character who's skin colour has no bearing on her place in the Witcher universe.

What are you not understanding?

Click to shrink...

I don't really know the full extent of the conversation you're having so I may be off base.

I didn't read the books but watched a couple videos on this topic from dedicated YouTube channels to the Witcher books and games.

What I got from the channels is that it's big in the worlds Lore. In the Witcher universe there are BAME (is that the correct term? If not minority's) but they hail from a different nation to the south of Nilfguard (if I'm not mistaken).

Her mother is born to a tribe of Nordlings who's pale of skin and her father is the emperor of Nilfguard. The line used in the books to discribe her was something like pale of skin with big green eyes.


It reminds me of Death Note Live action series on Netflix and the reaction for the changes when they were revealed.

Personally I don't care. While I played and love Witcher 3 and I want to buy the novels to read and learn more of the Witcher world I would prefer to always keep established character close to their source material and would've have had the creator create more diverse characters to be introduced to the Netflix series. It's not by any means a deal breaker for me because I'll have the same approach to this series as I did for the Death Note live action series where as if it looks good I'll watch it and get invested if not I'll just ignore it like I did with the Death Note live action series.

 

[Anarkin]

There is a rumor that is going around, which originated from the same source that named Henry Cavill Geralt before it was confirmed, of a young English actress of Indian decent being cast as Yennifer.

It doesn't make sense to me due to her age but why would they make something up about an unknown?

https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9eh0ge/rumor_anya_chalotra_is_yennefer_netflix_witcher/

Wouldn't put much stock in it

Click to shrink...

They are searching for someone between 24 and 36 years. How would a 21 year old even get into the casting? She could easily play a teenager, is way to young.

 

[Namtab]

Like I said, I just hate people who distorces things I say. Liars are the kind I hate.

"If anything, Poland needs a big dose of distilled blackness into their white veins to get accustomed to a non-white world."
This is absolutly equal to "Getting a lot more of divercity"

I didn't read all the posts from the other guy, but I sure did saw others ocasions U did the same thing. bye Cheebo it was not a pleasure.

Click to shrink...

It's back to reddit for you.

 

[DrDanzo]

Why people are so absurdly mad ?

Games are not exemplar in term of fidelity from original sources i think.

Nilfgaard is in the southern part of the continent if i remember correctly, and the cultural heart of Nilfgaard, where true Nilfgaardians live, is in the most southern part of the Empire.

I can totally imagine something like a Mediterranean-like country so a non-white Ciri could be ok, as long as the TV Show depicte her true father and Elves accordingly.

 

[Namtab]

It's becoming a shame calling oneself a gamer these days. Grown men acting like a bunch a babies.

 

[Kiekura]

https://www.reddit.com/r/netflixwit...tion_regarding_the/?utm_source=reddit-android

So there is rumours that they are also casting polish actress for role of young Ciri? Two roles for her or what?

 

[RocknRola]

https://www.reddit.com/r/netflixwit...tion_regarding_the/?utm_source=reddit-android

So there is rumours that they are also casting polish actress for role of young Ciri? Two roles for her or what?

Click to shrink...

Man that art looks all kinds of badass.

If they could find a an actress that, with some makeup and hair paint, could replicate that look I'd be more than sold!

 

[Kiekura]

Man that art looks all kinds of badass.

If they could find a an actress that, with some makeup and hair paint, could replicate that look I'd be more than sold!

Click to shrink...

Yeah that art looks so freaking good!

 

[Mitchman1411]

The funny part. Nowhere in the books in does it mention what skin color Ciri has, only her hair and eye color. The fake Ciri's skin color is mentioned as pale white. This is from the original Polish version. The English version apparently adds that she has "fair complexion".

https://old.reddit.com/r/netflixwit...when_people_say_ciri_was_never_white/e5lwy13/

 

[DiipuSurotu]

The funny part. Nowhere in the books in does it mention what skin color Ciri has, only her hair and eye color. The fake Ciri's skin color is mentioned as pale white. This is from the original Polish version. The English version apparently adds that she has "fair complexion".

https://old.reddit.com/r/netflixwit...when_people_say_ciri_was_never_white/e5lwy13/

Click to shrink...

Asians can have pale white skin anyway.

 

[Morrigan]

Man that art looks all kinds of badass.

Click to shrink...

She looks like a drow elf there haha.

 

[NinjaTrouiLLe]

Im not sure what to think about this tbh. I think it really comes down to the reason/intentions of the series writer behind this decision.

If it's to enrich or show more unknown aspects of the lore, it's fine. There will be a lot to change or explain if the series wants to enter the genealogy/legacy of the global Witcher work/fan domain, but i don't see that as impossible.

If it's only to satisfy communities (identified or not), that is a bad decision on several aspects. It would distort the original lore for no apparent reason, it would cut the series from a good chunk of the fanbase, and some people could even see that as a disrespect toward the appropriation they have made of the general lore/work, which some have been following for 2 decades.
And yeah there will be some latent racists in the lot feeling wrong as they might feel a political agenda behind it.


There is a third possibility, that it could be the 2 reasons at the same time. Going in depth with the lore and promoting diversity at the same time.


So i don't know what to think.

But one sure thing for me is that at some point if you deliberately temper with a global lore (assembled by different pieces of work of different mediums) a bit too much, you cannot be surprised hardcore fans will shit on the piece you're trying to produce and never include it in the global work of art/lore.

Trying to illustrate this, lets say a new star wars comes out on a different medium stating

Spoiler

Vador is not luke's dad anymore

this will be considered as fanfic more than anything else.

Racism has little to do with it imho. It comes more from the subject tackled than the actual discussions/opinions on it. We probably need to overcome everyone's epidermic reaction to let a real debate emerge.

 

[sabrina]

If it's to enrich or show more unknown aspects of the lore, it's fine. There will be a lot to change or explain if the series wants to enter the genealogy/legacy of the global Witcher work/fan domain, but i don't see that as impossible.

If it's only to satisfy communities (identified or not), that is a bad decision on several aspects. It would distort the original lore for no apparent reason, it would cut the series from a good chunk of the fanbase, and some people could even see that as a disrespect toward the appropriation they have made of the general lore/work, which some have been following for 2 decades.
And yeah there will be some latent racists in the lot feeling wrong as they might feel a political agenda behind it.

Click to shrink...

Of course diversity enriches the lore. When has a homogenous culture ever enriched the lore of a world? This has the author's blessing, so it shouldn't even be a question.

As far as the "good chunk of the fanbase" who are too racist to watch if there are non-caucasian characters in the show, they don't matter.

 

[aevanhoe]

People must think this is Reddit. Do they really think people here don't see through the bullshit racist spin "I just want it to stay true to the Slavic/Polish roots" when they didn't say a peep about Cavill?

It's almost funny if it wasn't sad.

Click to shrink...

While I'm ok with Ciri not being white, your argument is not really sound. I am Slavic and I can tell you - Cavill looks like one of the people from around here (and not just talking about his skin - the guy can seriously pass as a Slav), while a black person does not. Not saying some people are not just using this as an excuse to hide some very ugly sentiments (sadly, some people are probably doing exactly that) - but not everyone is racist just because they want a character to be closer to the original fantasy established in games or books. Once again - I don't care, as long as the show is good.

 

[SilentMike03]

She's a fictional character who's skin colour has no bearing on her place in the Witcher universe.

Click to shrink...

This is my stance on it. Got into a debate at work today with a guy who was arguing that somehow this change would have a serious effect on the series and how it wasn't respecting the source material. It was very frustrating.

 

[ISOM]

43 pages for not even the main character being replaced with a different race. People and society have a fucking problem.

 

[aevanhoe]

This is my stance on it. Got into a debate at work today with a guy who was arguing that somehow this change would have a serious effect on the series and how it wasn't respecting the source material. It was very frustrating.

Click to shrink...

But why? People can honestly have this opinion. And, like I wrote above - I'm not one of them. Personally, couldn't care less about source material or the color of Ciri's skin - but why would this be frustrating? Sometimes, there really isn't anything sinister behind criticsm. Sure - "not respecting source material" can be a facade for something really ugly - but sometimes it's just people having their own idea how some character looks or acts (it doesn't necessarily make them right, but it doesn't automatically have to make them racist or anything)

 

[Dick Justice]

Even mod authors are acting like triggered babies.

 

[Wagram]

Diversity for the sake of being diverse alone is always stupid in my opinion. Call it being racist if you will (hint: it isn't), but I don't like it. Changing the source material is dumb and simply creates a controversy that didn't need to exist.

 

[Namtab]

Diversity for the sake of being diverse alone is always stupid in my opinion. Call it being racist if you will (hint: it isn't), but I don't like it. Changing the source material is dumb and simply creates a controversy that didn't need to exist.

Click to shrink...

Mah whyte Ciri.

They are casting Ciri as non-white because they want to. How about them apples.

 

[Mitchman1411]

Changing the source material is dumb and simply creates a controversy that didn't need to exist.

Click to shrink...

Nowhere in the original language of the books does it say anything about Ciri's etrinicity so no source material has been changed. The books only mention her hair and eye color.

 

[RDreamer]

Diversity for the sake of being diverse alone is always stupid in my opinion. Call it being racist if you will (hint: it isn't), but I don't like it. Changing the source material is dumb and simply creates a controversy that didn't need to exist.

Click to shrink...

You've read the scripts? You've seen the show already? No? Then how the hell do you know it's diversity for the sake of diversity. Critiquing artistic intent before even seeing the art seems stupid.

And it's funny almost no one was waxing philosophically about the source material when CDPR was taking liberties with the characters. Why? Because most just like good media and don't actually give a shit about the source material... unless they have some other motives.

 

[TylersProphecy]

It's becoming a shame calling oneself a gamer these days. Grown men acting like a bunch a babies.

Click to shrink...

If you cant detach individuals from a group, then almost every gathering of peoples can look horrible (and usually does). Be smart. Know that there are pricks in every area of life and dont punish others just because they enjoy the same hobbies as these people.

 

[Landford]

Has Yenn been cast yet?

 

[Xeontech]

She would look awesome as Japanese/Chinese Eurasian mix with white hair.

 

[MonsterMech]

Diversity for the sake of being diverse alone is always stupid in my opinion. Call it being racist if you will (hint: it isn't), but I don't like it. Changing the source material is dumb and simply creates a controversy that didn't need to exist.

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't say it's outright racist, but at the very least it's insensitive to the plight of marginalized groups. When you understand that that diversity for the sake of being diverse only exists to combat deliberate exclusion, then it seems you'd understand why deliberate diversity is sometimes needed.

If you think that's "always stupid" then it kinda shows where you stand. I'm glad more and more people are starting to understand why diversity is needed.

 

[DaciaJC]

Nowhere in the original language of the books does it say anything about Ciri's etrinicity so no source material has been changed. The books only mention her hair and eye color.

Click to shrink...

In the English translation of The Lady of the Lake, there's a passage after the arrival of the Nilfgaardians in chapter 9 that goes, "The officer looked at Ciri, and his eyes burned in the slits of the helmet, noticing and registering everything. The paleness. The scar on her cheek. The blood on her sleeve and hand. The white streaks in her hair." I wonder how paleness is worded in the original - is it in reference to her general skin color or more her temporary appearance as a result of her ordeal?

There are a couple of other descriptions I happened upon reading The Time of Contempt wherein Ciri is taking a tour of Gors Velen and she's described as being "white with rage" and "white as a sheet" at differing points. I wonder here, too, if the English translation is faithful to the original or if it just uses expressions not present in the Polish.

 

[Wagram]

Hey man, here's hoping they cast Jackie Chan as Vesemir. Why not?

 

[sabrina]

In the English translation of The Lady of the Lake, there's a passage after the arrival of the Nilfgaardians in chapter 9 that goes, "The officer looked at Ciri, and his eyes burned in the slits of the helmet, noticing and registering everything. The paleness. The scar on her cheek. The blood on her sleeve and hand. The white streaks in her hair." I wonder how paleness is worded in the original - is it in reference to her general skin color or more her temporary appearance as a result of her ordeal?

There are a couple of other descriptions I happened upon reading The Time of Contempt wherein Ciri is taking a tour of Gors Velen and she's described as being "white with rage" and "white as a sheet" at differing points. I wonder here, too, if the English translation is faithful to the original or if it just uses expressions not present in the Polish.

Click to shrink...

White with rage and white as a sheet are not absolute descriptions, but relative. The expressions could be used on a person of any ethnicity. Same with pale, for that matter.

Generally speaking the books visually describe a person as much as is relevant the first time you meet them. That it took until the ninth chapter to offhandedly be described as pale shows how little importance her paleness is.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Hey man, here's hoping they cast Jackie Chan as Vesemir. Why not?

Click to shrink...

I was going to write a response around if you've ever had similar feelings about all white casts or characters races being changed to white. But I'm willing to bet you're just racist based off this post.

 

[sph3re]

Diversity for the sake of being diverse alone is always stupid in my opinion. Call it being racist if you will (hint: it isn't), but I don't like it. Changing the source material is dumb and simply creates a controversy that didn't need to exist.

Click to shrink...

"Controversy"

 

[Wagram]

I was going to write a response around if you've ever had similar feelings about all white casts or characters races being changed to white. But I'm willing to bet you're just racist based off this post.

Click to shrink...

You would be wrong then. Why are you automatically a racist if you disagree with an artistic choice? Yes, it's ultimately their choice to make, and that's FINE. I don't like it, simple as that. Am I boycotting the show? No.

I would feel the same way if for example they made a GTA San Andreas show based on CJ and the actor was white. I don't want to watch the show and have that feeling in my brain constantly screaming "that's not Ciri, that's not CJ."

That actress could nail the character completely. It's not going to change how I feel about it.

 

[RedMercury]

Diversity for the sake of being diverse alone is always stupid in my opinion. Call it being racist if you will (hint: it isn't), but I don't like it. Changing the source material is dumb and simply creates a controversy that didn't need to exist.

Click to shrink...

You're literally calling diversity stupid. That's racist, to stand in the way of better representation in media. "Diversity for diversity's sake" would be creators/writers deciding they can do better at representation, there is nothing wrong with that, that's a good thing and something everyone should support.

I don't want to watch the show and have that feeling in my brain constantly screaming "that's not Ciri,

Click to shrink...

That sounds like a personal problem, maybe you should examine why you feel that way.

That actress could nail the character completely. It's not going to change how I feel about it.

Click to shrink...

So even if you think a minority does a great job in the role you're going to force yourself to dislike it because of the color of her skin.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Changing the source material is dumb

Click to shrink...

So I assume you take issue with the games then?

 

[RedMercury]

So I assume you take issue with the games then?

Click to shrink...

Hey wtf that is supposed to be a yellow face! I used to love that picture but now I hate it for some reason! /s

 

[Crossing Eden]

Hey wtf that is supposed to be a yellow face! I used to love that picture but now I hate it for some reason! /s

Click to shrink...

Ayy

 

[DaciaJC]

White with rage and white as a sheet are not absolute descriptions, but relative. The expressions could be used on a person of any ethnicity. Same with pale, for that matter.

Click to shrink...

I realize that. I was wondering if the original text uses other wording like "filled with wrath" that might carry a slightly different meaning. See below for an example.

To my knowledge, not really. There's one passage in The Sword of Destiny where Geralt's appearance is mimicked by a doppler - "What a hideous smile I have, Geralt thought, reaching for his sword. What a hideous face I have. And how hideously I squint. So is that what I look like? Damn." - but I think that's just Geralt being his usual self-pitying self, because elsewhere in the books ...

- Yennefer says to him, "Don't pull that face; it doesn't suit either your good looks or your complexion" (The Last Wish)
- At the mage's banquet on Thanedd, one sorceress compliments Yennefer on her male partner and later plots with another sorceress to seduce him (The Time of Contempt)
- Geralt sleeps with several other women besides throughout the series, which I don't think would be likely if he is in fact "very ugly"

Click to shrink...

That's a weird translation. She says "your type of face [appearance] and complexion." It's a cold, clinical comment, it wouldn't make much sense for her to sneak in a compliment when she's being a pushy asshole.

Click to shrink...

 

[Ashgarth]

I just hope they do a better job at black actress/white hair than they did with Halle Berry's godawful wig in X-Men