Civilization VI: Rise and Fall |OT| Just One More Era

Unaha-Closp · Feb 20, 2018

Noob War Question - I understand the more my Warmonger Score goes up the more Civs denounce me - fair enough. Denounce away I say. Now not one but two civs in my last game declared war. Did I see a single military unit of theirs at all? No I did not. A third pipes up saying We Are At War - they send 1 unit. If you declare War and there is not an actual War shouldn't there be a negative or something? Does their Warmongering score go up? Does mine go down if there is no fighting? I guess I am still a little fuzzy about it (that and everything :D). Only finished my 4th game and they have all been on Normal. If it's just a number that goes up that makes the Civs trigger a War with no actual plan or thought to come and attack me then I am a little bummed about that. When I declare war I have moved my troops to their border and then declare. Enjoying Science and Culture playthroughs but you need an army too regardless I feel which if they aren't going to follow through with maybe you don't?

I'm off to pop up the difficulty a smidge on my next game.

Hella · Feb 20, 2018

Warmongering goes up when you declare war on others, with the exact amount modified by the reason for the war. It goes up more when conquering cities, goes up a LOT more when razing cities, and is reduced by liberating cities, or over periods of peace. Conquering a major civ's final city also incurs a large amount of warmongering. Denouncing, AFAIK, does not affect warmongering at all, and being a defensive member of a war will not incur much warmongering (unless you're doing actually conquering cities).

You'll definitely see some civs move their units to your borders before declaring war, but in my experience that's civs that are militaristic civs bent on conquest. Joint wars have always been a bit of a mess from what I've seen, with one ally too far away to ever do anything, and the other one wholly unprepared. In general you'll want a decent military to deter any wars, because even non-militaristic civs will try their luck if you're perceived as weak.

Seldon · Feb 24, 2018

I'm definitely having a ton of fun with this expansion. Finally moved on to King and it is a ton more fun. My only complaint with the game is the same that it was in the base game, I wish there was some info on what effect policy changes have. Like choosing between the 100% district agacency bonuses rather than just boosting the district. I have no information to make this choice. I tried to find a mod that can do this for me but I haven't yet.

Loan Wolf · Feb 24, 2018

Is this a bug? I was on the verge of Lyon joining us after Rome lost it from rebellion but by the last turn, joined Brazil instead despite showing that it'd join us.

Before city flip

After city flip

Dekuman · Feb 24, 2018

yrba1 said:
Is this a bug? I was on the verge of Lyon joining us after Rome lost it from rebellion but by the last turn, joined Brazil instead despite showing that it'd join us.

Before city flip

After city flip

There's a tooltip when click on the red fist loyalty icon when a Free city's loyalty is falling showing which Civ has the most influence. Brazil and you might be really close and they jumped ahead at the last minute

From the map you posted, they certainly have a claim to the city as well. as they share a massive border with them. With what I assume is a core city or even a capital fairly close as I see their Hermitage at the bottom of the screen.

Sibylus · Feb 24, 2018

You see that red bar beneath the city banner going between anarchy and your icon? You had virtually no net loyalty compared to other civs (expand the panel to see the raw numbers).

Loan Wolf · Feb 24, 2018

Dekuman said:
There's a tooltip when click on the red fist loyalty icon when a Free city's loyalty is falling showing which Civ has the most influence. Brazil and you might be really close and they jumped ahead at the last minute

From the map you posted, they certainly have a claim to the city as well. as they share a massive border with them. With what I assume is a core city or even a capital fairly close as I see their Hermitage at the bottom of the screen.

Sibylus said:
You see that red bar beneath the city banner going between anarchy and your icon? You had virtually no net loyalty compared to other civs (expand the panel to see the raw numbers).

Yep I see it now

I'll keep that in mind next time I play. Had a handful of wonder gags this game.

Loan Wolf · Feb 24, 2018

Not sure if Scythia AI still buggy with her army spam or is just or playstyle

Dekuman · Feb 24, 2018

Scythia is usually agressive, not a surprise.

Hella · Feb 25, 2018

If you want to see an aggressive AI (at least early on), Babylon's chariot legions are legion.

Sibylus · Feb 25, 2018

She likes building cavalry as a rule, and her civ ability doubles up her light cavalry (like those pictured horsemen and saksa horse archers) very quickly.

Zed · Feb 26, 2018

I think they should just scrap joint wars and bring back the system in Civ 5 where you can pay people to go to war yet still both declare war at the same time if you want to.

phantomx · Feb 26, 2018

Imperfected said:
Culture is actually very easy, to the point it will often happen incidentally while you're pursuing a Domination or Science victory.

Not on the harder levels :P

Religion is certainly harder, though it's also frankly just not very fun. The Religion sub-game basically breaks down to an even less interesting and scalable version of normal combat. (IE, let's hurl our production at each other until someone's exhausted, except now let's remove terrain, experience and promotions, range, and every other bit of nuance from the equation.)

Yea, every victory path in civ games could be boiled down to a simplistically boring effort (if you really want to try hard enough to be negative lol).

Even combat. (It's essentially a game of attrition as well, when playing against the AI).

phantomx · Feb 26, 2018

Dekuman said:
Diplo victory was always wonky. In Civ 3 it was about having a clean reputation and buying votes but it was difficult to pull off as runaways often wiped out civs.

Civ 4 weighting of votes by pop / vassal made it into a domination lite.

Civ 5s implementation was essentially economic. But i enjoyed the world congress shenanigans and election rigging.

I think to make a proper diplo victory, it should be scored by era rather than a round of voting in the end game. With your cumulative score plus some end game objectives like a vote to top off scores and flag the diplo vc.

Civ 6s game mechanics is well positioned for the return of diplo VC and i hope it makes a return. Religious VC was kind of a let down. Its pointless in the higher difficulties because science is so.much more important.

It can be fun to turn off the science victory path for some games.

demosthenes · Feb 26, 2018

Hella said:
If you want to see an aggressive AI (at least early on), Babylon's chariot legions are legion.

So op.

Adnor · Feb 26, 2018

It's been almost a month but I'm still so mad at my brother who convinced me to cancel the Humble Monthly because he was going to get it and he already had Civ VI but then he didn't get the monthly.

phantomx · Feb 27, 2018

Hella said:
Warmongering goes up when you declare war on others, with the exact amount modified by the reason for the war. It goes up more when conquering cities, goes up a LOT more when razing cities, and is reduced by liberating cities, or over periods of peace. Conquering a major civ's final city also incurs a large amount of warmongering. Denouncing, AFAIK, does not affect warmongering at all, and being a defensive member of a war will not incur much warmongering (unless you're doing actually conquering cities).

Dunno if you were just talking about warmongering affects when others denounce you...but just to be sure...denouncing DOES affect warmongering as the aggressor. If you denounce someone 5 turns before you declare war on them, your warmongering penalities are reduced a bit

Sibylus · Feb 27, 2018

City State emergencies are irresistible to me lol. Twice this game I've started a major war to resolve them, and combined with AI cowardice I've made over 40,000 gold from liberating them.

Pixieking · Feb 27, 2018

Adnor said:
It's been almost a month but I'm still so mad at my brother who convinced me to cancel the Humble Monthly because he was going to get it and he already had Civ VI but then he didn't get the monthly.

Over on the B/S/T thread someone is selling base-game + a couple of DLCs for 5 bucks. https://www.resetera.com/posts/5013480/

Adnor · Feb 27, 2018

Pixieking said:
Over on the B/S/T thread someone is selling base-game + a couple of DLCs for 5 bucks. https://www.resetera.com/posts/5013480/

Sent him a PM, hopefully he still has it, thanks ;)

demosthenes · Feb 27, 2018

Sibylus said:
City State emergencies are irresistible to me lol. Twice this game I've started a major war to resolve them, and combined with AI cowardice I've made over 40,000 gold from liberating them.

I hate when they're on the other side of the map early on and it would take me like 15 turns to get there or something. Happened twice I. The game of island I'm on now.

Unaha-Closp · Feb 28, 2018

I wish Diplomacy was a bit more involved. Playing a game last night - 2 Civs declare war on me - they are about 30 movement turns away from me. It comes to nothing and they send no units or at least they can't get here in time before the peace out happens. Later again 2 civs declare war on me - now I have done literally nothing the whole game but grow my cities. Not been in a fight with anyone, not invaded, not sat troops on borders - literally nothing. Again this war comes to nothing and I see no one. They just declare war. I can't ask them why. I can't ask them to talk about it before it becomes a formal war. I can't do anything but say ok - safe in the knowledge they can't get here. So what is the point? I can't offer them to change Government if that is what is upsetting them. I can't offer to bulk up my Army or downsize it if that is what is upsetting them. There is no diplomacy at all. I can't promise to start sending trade routes to them if that is what is upsetting them. You see what I am saying. Sounds like Joint Wars is what happened in my game - why can't I offer one party a better deal to not go to war with me? I can't do anything but wake up my units and tediously hit next turn until I can make peace and get back to peacefully growing my Civ. Why essentially Declare War only to peace out with zero problems exactly 10 turns later with no actual war having happened? What is the point of it?

Just a small rant :D

Mengy · Feb 28, 2018

Yeah, that exact behavior you describe is my largest beef with Civ 6. The AI appears to behave so randomly, it makes diplomacy almost useless in the game and I wish that wasn't the case.

Still, I am liking the changes and the mechanics of Civ 6, I just wish they'd improve the AI's behavior.

Niahak · Feb 28, 2018

In the one game of RaF I've completed, I was allied to Gandhi and Genghis Khan (for at least 3 rounds of renewal). I was entertained I managed to get both of them allied...

Then one time my alliance was up for renewal, Gandhi refused to declare friendship again. Oh well, at least I still got ol' Khannie.

Then Gandhi declared a joint war on me with the Mapuche, sparking a "Betrayal" emergency which we succeeded in.

Then, about 50 turns later, Gandhi did the same thing again. Another Betrayal emergency, another (easier, since I already had a ramped-up military) victory.

Gandhi. Of all people. And nukes weren't even available. He was "friendly" to me beforehand. I hadn't declared a war so far and he was on a different continent.

I'd at least like to know what he sold me out for. Tobacco? Wine?

Unaha-Closp · Feb 28, 2018

Mengy said:
Yeah, that exact behavior you describe is my largest beef with Civ 6. The AI appears to behave so randomly, it makes diplomacy almost useless in the game and I wish that wasn't the case.

Still, I am liking the changes and the mechanics of Civ 6, I just wish they'd improve the AI's behavior.

I'm new to Civ so don't know if these things happened on other games. I'm enjoying it immensely except for the Diplomacy/Declaring Wars bit. It's all a bit contrived to me. Some dude denounced me because I was a woman....I mean really. Just offer me bad trades and spy on me and slander me or I don't know I am not a game designer - don't denounce me for my gender. When I get a game and my immediate neighbours are peaceful and like me - joy. When they are genocidal maniacs only because I wear a dress - tedious. Give me options to talk to these people. Give me routes through the gender politics. Nope just hit okay and maybe you'll see some fighting, maybe not. Want to roleplay a peaceful Civ - better have an army incase they don't like your gender. Have the temerity to be friendly with another civ - WAR!!!! lol it's all a bit video gamey. Which is fine as it is one I guess. Now all I want to do is play the Female Leaders and piss off any of the sexists ones.

jph139 · Feb 28, 2018

I've honestly never had a problem with diplomacy in Civ VI. I feel like it's a fair balance between "players trying to win the game" and "historical characters to interact with." Egypt hates me until I build up an army, then they suddenly want to snuggle in close. Pericles is my bro next door, but when I have a single archer defending three cities, he sends in the hoplites. Some people love me because I'm rich, some people hate me because they're a different religion.

But most games, I can stay friendly with a majority of nations, build strong alliances with one or two, and spend enough cash on a military that keeps the rest from invading. Feels fair to me.

I think the AI's understanding of the systems is subpar. They're not good at the game. Greece loses like a dozen soldiers before he takes my capital because he just doesn't know how to capture a city. They overvalue some trade items and undervalue others. But those are separate issues.

Sibylus · Feb 28, 2018

Only real problem with diplomacy are those edge cases of conflicting modifiers (like your war ally hating your warmongering in a shared war) that usually take awhile to be patched. Very seldom will an AI's diplo behavior just completely baffle me.

Unaha-Closp said:
I'm new to Civ so don't know if these things happened on other games. I'm enjoying it immensely except for the Diplomacy/Declaring Wars bit. It's all a bit contrived to me. Some dude denounced me because I was a woman....I mean really. Just offer me bad trades and spy on me and slander me or I don't know I am not a game designer - don't denounce me for my gender. When I get a game and my immediate neighbours are peaceful and like me - joy. When they are genocidal maniacs only because I wear a dress - tedious. Give me options to talk to these people. Give me routes through the gender politics. Nope just hit okay and maybe you'll see some fighting, maybe not. Want to roleplay a peaceful Civ - better have an army incase they don't like your gender. Have the temerity to be friendly with another civ - WAR!!!! lol it's all a bit video gamey. Which is fine as it is one I guess. Now all I want to do is play the Female Leaders and piss off any of the sexists ones.

That's a randomized hidden agenda (in addition to their main historical one), among a long list of them that a leader can roll in a game. There's (to my knowledge) no leader that's a lock for rolling a sexist hidden agenda.

Maledict · Feb 28, 2018

No-one is a lock, but certain leaders have a much higher chance than others to role one of those agendas. They are bloody stupid in every way and I have no idea what Firaxis was thinking of when they put them in the game.

demosthenes · Feb 28, 2018

Mengy said:
Yeah, that exact behavior you describe is my largest beef with Civ 6. The AI appears to behave so randomly, it makes diplomacy almost useless in the game and I wish that wasn't the case.

Still, I am liking the changes and the mechanics of Civ 6, I just wish they'd improve the AI's behavior.

Yep, ai is so frustrating.

Btw, anyone else having online multiplayer disconnect issues? Friend hosts and I disconnect a ton in late game.

Unaha-Closp · Mar 2, 2018

Today's gripe about AI. Why would a Barbarian Scout suicide himself against a city? Just him there. No units of mine. No threat no danger to him. No walls even to bombard him with. Just head butt's himself or herself into oblivion. Baffling. Also taking over AI cities - the amount of unworked land and unhappy populace with overcrowding and negative amenities is quite baffling too. They just send out settlers, set up shop and then don't look after it? Also maybe a mod I have is messing it up but one Civ seemed to have launched the Earth Satellite without actually having a Spaceport? Sending a spy to go interfere - no Spaceport. I'll have to go and manually scan his territory to see if I can find it. Well I have been denounced one too many times for my liking in this game as France found out and someone else is going to feel the wrath of my Golden Age CB with Light Warmongering Penalty which makes no difference I find if you wipe out a Civ you get denounced by everyone anyway lol

Bregor · Mar 2, 2018

Barbarian scouts go on the rampage and will attack anything they can once their camp has been destroyed. This is to prevent there being a bunch of scouts skulking around in the wilderness like there was when Civ 6 first released.

AI does require a spaceport to launch space projects.

AI empires do a poor job upgrading their land. City states by comparison do much better.

Maledict · Mar 2, 2018

Unaha-Closp said:
Today's gripe about AI. Why would a Barbarian Scout suicide himself against a city? Just him there. No units of mine. No threat no danger to him. No walls even to bombard him with. Just head butt's himself or herself into oblivion. Baffling. Also taking over AI cities - the amount of unworked land and unhappy populace with overcrowding and negative amenities is quite baffling too. They just send out settlers, set up shop and then don't look after it? Also maybe a mod I have is messing it up but one Civ seemed to have launched the Earth Satellite without actually having a Spaceport? Sending a spy to go interfere - no Spaceport. I'll have to go and manually scan his territory to see if I can find it. Well I have been denounced one too many times for my liking in this game as France found out and someone else is going to feel the wrath of my Golden Age CB with Light Warmongering Penalty which makes no difference I find if you wipe out a Civ you get denounced by everyone anyway lol

If a barbarian scouts camp is destroyed they will suicide - that's how the game cleans them up. They will just try to cause damage basically, and sometimes take out a trade route or two.

Re AI civs, it's because they get ridiculous bonuses to production, amenities and housing that they don't need to work the land and maximise everything like a human player does, so instead they pour their resources into wonders and armies generally.

Unaha-Closp · Mar 2, 2018

Thanks for the info People. Scouts could just walk into the ocean in despair instead of dashing their heads against a city but works out to the same thing I guess. I just assumed the AI Civs would play the game the way I play it - but if they get bonuses then I can see why they don't. I am only just testing out my skill, which is poor, on higher than normal difficulties so with this info you have given me in mind I'll quit my griping :D

Sibylus · Mar 2, 2018

My VI bugbear atm is trying to debug why I lose sound and music in the lategame (Atomic-Information era onward). Anyone have flickering problems with gsync/120hz refresh rate? My partner has that with her copy in a really bad way.

Pargon · Mar 2, 2018

Sibylus said:
My VI bugbear atm is trying to debug why I lose sound and music in the lategame (Atomic-Information era onward). Anyone have flickering problems with gsync/120hz refresh rate? My partner has that with her copy in a really bad way.

I had that problem with Civilization: Beyond Earth, and I think it was caused by my sound card being set to 7.1
I don't know if it applies to VI, or perhaps there are multiple causes, but try setting your sound device to 5.1 or 2.0, or disabling virtual surround (e.g. Dolby Atmos for Headphones).
If it's already set to 2.0, make sure the sample rate is no higher than 48kHz, as that can cause problems with quite a few games.
No guarantees of that working, but it's worth a try.

Sibylus · Mar 2, 2018

Pargon said:
I had that problem with Civilization: Beyond Earth, and I think it was caused by my sound card being set to 7.1
I don't know if it applies to VI, or perhaps there are multiple causes, but try setting your sound device to 5.1 or 2.0, or disabling virtual surround (e.g. Dolby Atmos for Headphones).
If it's already set to 2.0, make sure the sample rate is no higher than 48kHz, as that can cause problems with quite a few games.
No guarantees of that working, but it's worth a try.

This is also 2k support's suggestion, need more game time to see if I iron the issue out. Accidentally set it to 44kHz and only just noticed on your prompting, d'oh.

Sibylus · Mar 4, 2018

Sample rate of 48kHz doesn't fix it, sadly. Onward to trying other things!

Unaha-Closp · Mar 4, 2018

I'm running an old 970 and nothing fancy with 7.1 or 5.1, never touched nor know how to touch sample rate, 1080p 60hz - I get the same thing late game. Music cuts out and I have some flickering textures in some games. Didn't do that first 4 or 5 games if I recall right. Maybe it's mods conflicting? I am out of my PC tinkering element though. I hit play and hope it goes okay.

ZZMitch · Mar 4, 2018

Unaha-Closp said:
I'm running an old 970 and nothing fancy with 7.1 or 5.1, never touched nor know how to touch sample rate, 1080p 60hz - I get the same thing late game. Music cuts out and I have some flickering textures in some games. Didn't do that first 4 or 5 games if I recall right. Maybe it's mods conflicting? I am out of my PC tinkering element though. I hit play and hope it goes okay.

On my laptop, which has a 970M (can't remember the CPU tho) I get the issue where music cuts out and I have to restart the game to get it back every hour or 2. On my much more powerful desktop I do not get that issue though. So it might be related to the game being pushed too much on weaker hardware maybe?

Unaha-Closp · Mar 4, 2018

ZZMitch said:
On my laptop, which has a 970M (can't remember the CPU tho) I get the issue where music cuts out and I have to restart the game to get it back every hour or 2. On my much more powerful desktop I do not get that issue though. So it might be related to the game being pushed too much on weaker hardware maybe?

Yeah could be. I do like to play on Huge Maps but I reduce the amount of rival Civs so that we can spread out more. Like I said though it didn't happen the first 4 or 5 times I played Civ 6 R & F. Maybe I should do a standard everything game with no mods and see if it happens. Narrow it down a bit. Not that it breaks the game for me - I tab out and put on some Classical music then tab back in - and keep playing. But you are probably right.

Zed · Mar 4, 2018

Unaha-Closp said:
I'm running an old 970 and nothing fancy with 7.1 or 5.1, never touched nor know how to touch sample rate, 1080p 60hz - I get the same thing late game. Music cuts out and I have some flickering textures in some games. Didn't do that first 4 or 5 games if I recall right. Maybe it's mods conflicting? I am out of my PC tinkering element though. I hit play and hope it goes okay.

Might be your CPU or RAM. I imagine those might be bigger issues in the late game.

Loan Wolf · Mar 4, 2018

Zed said:
Might be your CPU or RAM. I imagine those might be bigger issues in the late game.

Not sure if it's due to old hardware; I'm having the same problems happen with an i7-6700k and a GTX 1070. Basically flickers display, music and fps tears, and music is unplayable, sometimes Sean Bean's quotes aren't said.

Sibylus · Mar 4, 2018

Reinstalling the various dependencies and updating the generic audio driver may have helped delay the eventual audio loss (it set in after I pressed past the point of victory).

vixlar · Mar 5, 2018

A developer's update on youtube

- Historic timeline when the game ends.
- Netherlands can build polders next to cliffs.
- Less experience when fighting free cities.
. City States get a bonus when building walls.

spiritfox · Mar 5, 2018

Nice to see them be more communicative. Polders not being able to be built next to cliffs is such a pain so it's nice to see them fix that.

Also entertainment district buffs are nice since water parks just make them redundant.

jph139 · Mar 5, 2018

City state defensive boosts are absolutely necessary - last few games I've played three or four go down before I can even meet them.

Anno · Mar 5, 2018

The TCS mod that makes CS start with walls works well if you want something in the meantime.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 5, 2018

Has anyone made a mod where you mod in Xi Jinping but he's always shown as Winnie the Pooh? (Xi is compared to Winnie the Pooh as a joke and thus the Chinese government banned Winnie the Pooh).

SaveWeyard · Mar 6, 2018

I read on Kotaku that it's better than Civ 5 with the Brave New World expansion pack.

Cocaloch · Mar 6, 2018

SaveWeyard said:
I read on Kotaku that it's better than Civ 5 with the Brave New World expansion pack.

.

Civilization VI: Rise and Fall |OT| Just One More Era

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One Winged Slayer