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Claims of biased media coverage on Bernie Sanders from his top campaign advisors
- Thread starter Troast
- Start date
Anyone trying to take Sanders down is part of the problem. You see it in the major journalists and publications, you even see it here in the detractors. So much that is wrong with our entire planet right now is as a result of these liars peddling their bullshit. If only we lived in a world where people like Sanders actually held sway.
I don't read the NYT physical or online edition but a google search shows that they have a few articles on it. What's this user talking about exactly ? Did the NYT's decline to do more stories, put it on the front page etc?
Edit:
Read the story the tweet was referring to. Seemed fairly positive?
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When people talk about Bernie fans acting in a conspiracy theoryesque way, this is what they're talking about.
If this consistent narrative is the only response to the most sweeping criminal justice plan in Presidential history, yeah...there might be just tinge of a hatred there. Just a bit. You ask whether media would only put on democratic and republican partisans that would only agree with the core message that the network wants to send to the audience? Its not really a conspiracy
No politician should be above scrutiny. Bernie may mean well, but he's not as good at this as you think he is. The media can be terrible, of course, the problems come in when any criticism of Bernie is lumped into that, and conspiracy theories are encouraged.
What data is Bernie citing? Cause the aggregate shows he hasn't gained at all(It's been at roughly 15-16%). Is the poll conducted by the doctor who did Trump's physical?
Indeed he cites no real data or it's source for the audience.
???
Bernie's averaging second place. Axlerod said he's now 3rd or 4th, which just isn't true.
???
Bernie's averaging second place. Axlerod said he's now 3rd or 4th, which just isn't true.
Bernie also says he's gained the most in polls since the last debate which is false. Biden gained the most to regain his original lead.
No he said "advanced" as in "improved placement/rank" not percentage points. Biden never lost 1st place.
No. That doesn't work with him trying to claim he hasn't fallen to third or fourth. Furthermore, if you exclude morning consult (poorer quality pollster/B-) and Hill/HarrisX(C+), it looks really bad for Bernie. If you weight each of the polls by their quality, Bernie would be third in average and Warren second.
Yes, "advanced" is literally the word he used, not "gained".The two words refer to completely different things. And he's arguing the opposite. He's saying he WAS in 3rd/4th, but has now advanced to 2nd place, which is a higher advancement than any other candidate. It's definitely spin, but technically he was 100% accurate in what he said.
Unless you're saying the title of the video is wrong, you're 100% wrong. The video you posted says Bernie is disputing David's point that he's 3rd or 4th IN IOWA. The RCP average in Iowa has him in third.???
Bernie's averaging second place. Axlerod said he's now 3rd or 4th, which just isn't true.
In the actual clip Bernie doesnt even counter the 3rd or 4th point in Iowa specifically (because its true). He says he's "moved the most," then doesnt clarify if he's looking at someone's average, polls from a specific pollster, or that its possible to move the most and still be third or fourth in Iowa. Even if referencing the national average, Warren has "moved" more while Bernie has remained flat since the second debate. Bernie is being disingenuous for sure.
The video title is wrong. That's not what he said.
Bernie hasn't remained in 2nd place though. That's where he is now, nationally (and that's what he's saying).
Essentially he's saying, "after the debates I moved up and settled into a higher place (2nd) than any other candidate moving up in the polls". Not particularly meaningful (it's spin) but it's technically accurate.
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Given the clip is out of context, we don't know what they were actually discussing.
Don't expect any actual response to your post. Even though you have good points.
I'm talking about what was explicitly said in the clip though, which has been misquoted several times now.
I watched the clip, we don't know if David was talking about Iowa, or National Polling.
Bernie is in 3rd in Iowa, and arguable in 3rd nationally if you weigh by poll quality.
That doesn't change what I said and doesn't magically absolve someone of misquoting someone else.
He still hasnt "moved more." Warren has come from lower and peaked higher since the last debate. As I said before, Bernie has remained flat, climbing from ~15% to 16%.
It seems pretty clear he's wrong from either angle but please post the entire clip if you can.
So, just continue to ignore the other points raised then.
Bernie is in 3rd in Iowa, and arguable in 3rd nationally if you weigh by poll quality.
Bernie's other quote about "Since the last debate we have advanced more in polling" is unsubstantiated bullshit.
Where did you find this anyway? it's an unlisted youtube video.
I'm arguing against what Bernie said. A statment you are clearing misrepresenting.
Reddit.
I'm not the one misquoting what was said in the video.
Interesting, you once again ignored the other part of my post.
Secondly, why are you hung up on this misquote insinuation. Be more clear.
He clearly says in the video: "Since the last debate we have advanced more in polling"
It's made up bullshit.
If I were to engage in every poorly constructed argument I'd never get anything done. This entire conversation is a derail and has nothing to do with the thread, unlike my reason for posting that video.
If anyone derailed this thread, it's you.
YOU posted the video. We are talking about THAT video.
The reason you won't respond to my or Zelas's posts is, is you can't.
Bernie can't be wrong.
My post was about confronting media bias (humorously), this conversation is focused on the content of the discussion in the video, which was not the purpose of posting the video.
What makes you arbiter of what is relevant?
Bernie making an inaccurate statement sure seems relevant to a discussion about media bias.
Given this was made on a media segment.
The topic of the thread does that just fine. If you want to theorize about polling accuracy for RCP, this isn't the place for that.
This is like kindergarten level argumentation.
Except, that's only part of what's being talked about.
Your original point was David Axelrod was misrepresenting Bernie's polling.
Except, he was not. I looked up the episode this was from, and the context is the Iowa Caucus, in fact the whole episode was about it.
"Interviews from the Iowa State Fair with Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar and Gov Steve Bullock."
The bit is from the end of the episode, and David clearly starts out with mentioning Iowa polling, and even compared it to the virtual draw (edit: in Iowa) with Hillary last election.
Your 'found on reddit' clip even mentions the Iowa part, but you decided that the video title was wrong, without any evidence.
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You are the one arguing against math and are saying the video title is wrong but cant produce evidence as to why. But since you have a problem with me using the word "moved" instead of "advanced" let's reiterate for the record what Bernie said word for word.
Bernie's national RCP average on Aug 1 = 16.4%
Bernie's current RCP national average = 16.0% (drop of 0.4%)
Warren's national RCP average on Aug 1 = 14.8%
Warren's current national RCP average = 15.4% (increase of 0.6%)
He's actually hasnt advanced at all. And yet somehow he isnt being disingenuous because of a goal post you can't even identify to begin with because the title of the video isnt actually wrong.
That's right, I did the work you refused to do for one obvious reason. Below is the full version of the 8/24 episode of The Axe Files which contains the Bernie interview and the context that 1000% points to the "3rd or 4th" comment referencing Iowa specifically. The entire episode is about the Iowa Caucus and even the question from Axlerod that was edited out was specifically about Iowa.
Jump to 37:51
So your made up point about "advancing more" at the national level is false and the actual point being disputed by Bernie, him currently being "3rd or 4th in Iowa" polling, is true. What I originally stated was spot on:
That we've independently came to the same conclusions on every single angle says everything.
You found a video clip though.
The fact that Bernie had those papers ready to go means he was waiting for any opportunity, if it was relevant or not, to try to 'gotcha' the media.
Even if what he was disputing was true.
Oh well, going to bed.
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My original point was a tongue-in-cheek comment about Bernie taking media bias too seriously if he has to carry polling results in his pocket. What transpired afterward veered far away from my intentions for posting the video had nothing to do with my original point and got further and further away from it, and now we're in meta-commentary, which is definitionally off-topic.
So first off, in context, it appears that Bernie and Axlerod were indeed talking about different polling, I can acknowledge that. However, you're conflating gains with advancement when talking about him being flat on average. He can be flat from week to week and still advance or lose place in the polls (placement and percentage points are different things) and placement is what Bernie's referring to. Again though, that is besides the point.
I think we agree here and speaks more to the spirit of my original post.
You can't admit you were wrong can you?
Sounds a lot like trump saying "Oh, I was just joking" but instead saying "tongue-in-cheek comment"
Perhaps you should verify what you post more in the future and quit using random reddit videos you find as evidence of anything.
???
It wasn't supposed to be evidence of anything, that's what I've been saying; that's not why I posted the clip.
And my track record on the veracity of my posts is pretty damn strong. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.
So, next time I fuck up and post something and get it wrong, i'm just going to say that was not my intention. Problem solved!
That's not what I'm saying. I will admit that I should have been more prudent about the fact that the video was out of context and so I shouldn't have assumed that Bernie and Axlerod were talking about the same polling. However, it was a lapse in judgement and not one you'll see me make often, so the whole side-comment about me needing to make sure that I verify my sources more often doesn't really correlate with my post history. Plenty of people on this forum would vouch for me on that; my post history is available for everyone to see. But if you want to gloat for pointing out my error, then by all means, go right ahead.
Which is why I strongly believe this whole media bias narrative is just an unoriginal strategy to stop his supporters from being won over by Joe and especially Warren. The same overall criticism I've had about him applies here. He never admits fault and always needs a bad guy (this time the media) to blame because he refuses to do the work necessary to appeal outside his targeted slice of the electorate. He's acting like he's in a two person race again and assuming voters will eventually be turned off by anyone opposing him.
No we absolutely do not agree. Advancement and current polling place were always two separate points. I only entertained the idea about advancement because the edited version of the clip did not provide all context. It was only to say even if Iowa was not the focus Bernie is still wrong.
At this point, with the full video provided, all that matters is the "3rd or 4th in Iowa" and that your original post is still wrong:
Axlerod statement was true. Bernie isnt averaging second in Iowa and he's not currently polling 3rd or 4th in Iowa. You bought into Bernie's spin and wont admit it because you dont want to acknowledge that Bernie was indeed being disingenuous.
That comment was not directed at you.
There must be some communication breakdown here. By virtue of Bernie and Axlerod talking about different polling, Bernie's claim that Axelrod was wrong was incorrect and Bernie was the in the wrong here. My acknowledgment that Bernie was referring to different polling (national) still carries the implication that he was wrong about Axelrod.
And to be clear, my original post was a joke about him carrying a piece of paper in his pocket to counter the media (in other words, it was a bit extra), had nothing to do with polling discussion.
Yes, Axelrod's statement was true, I'm not contending that. That doesn't negate the validity of Bernie's statement about his polling (Bernie never said anything about him advancing in Iowa); it just doesn't refute what Axelrod said. And yeah, it's disingenuous; all spin is disingenuous (never argued otherwise on that point).
EDIT:
I should also mention that this isn't the first time that Bernie has used the "I've advanced the most since the debates" argument with the press (outside of Iowa context), so it was clear to me that, at least on Bernie's end, he was referring to national polling. My mistake was in assuming that Axlerod was referring to national polling as well.
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Does every candidate have an army of spin artists (like whoever posted the reddit video) and I just don't notice them?
The massive problem with this mentality is that generally people within large organizations like to keep their names from coming up and succeed at it, so the choice becomes don't talk about the issue or talk about the issue with generalizations like that.
Bernie didn't have to tell his supporters to distrust the press in order to distrust the press.
Their constant neoliberal, white middle class, corporate, pro capitalist, corporate owned bubble did that. Corporate ownership of news and information isn't normal, and having millionaires whose job security, which starts at the hiring process, depends on them knowing what not to cover and advocate for on air isn't normal.
And saying the press is biased is honest. Saying what Trump says, that the press is the enemy of the people is weaponizing that understanding. Two different things but from the same understanding that millionaires and billionaires in news don't cover or understand the issues that face poor whites.
The simple fact that outlets like NYT kept sending out reporters like they were on safari after trumps election to find out about the "rural white working class" says a lot about their obvious class bias. Never once did they hire a reporter for the community that would have obvious insights about why people voted for him but The Times couldn't seem to do that.
Oh, the times doesn't have a Labor reporter. like come the fuck on.
Yeah, but they're not usually doing the whole "the media are lying" thing. Trump's campaign does it a lot more than the Bernie campaign. Other campaigns just try to put a shine on what their candidate is doing.