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Clip Studio Paint announces move to subscription service for updates going forward

Jintor

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,420
Whelp goodbye competitive advantage against Adobe Photoshop's shithouse sub service


View: https://twitter.com/clipstudiopaint/status/1561577703261835265

Ten years after the initial release of Clip Studio Paint 1.0, we will be welcoming the release of Version 2.0 in the first half of 2023. Over the past ten years, across over 80 free updates, we have continued to bring new features to Clip Studio Paint. However, from 2023 onwards, the current Version 1 (the one-time purchase, perpetual version for Windows/macOS, "Version 1.x" hereafter), offered as a download and physical version will no longer receive feature updates free of charge.

Clip Studio Paint Version 2.0 will offer a slate of new features to make use of in your digital art. At this time there are no major changes planned to the existing features or the UI. If you are a current user of Version 1.x and would like to use Version 2.0 without purchasing an additional perpetual license, you can purchase an Update Pass (annual), which will be on offer from next year.
Customers with an Update Pass or a Monthly Plan (purchased through app stores or the Clip Studio Paint site) will be able to use the most up-to-date version of the app for as long as their plan or pass is valid. Version 2.0 will also be available as a one-time purchase (perpetual license).
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I fucking hate our sub software future

Tbh i'm not as personally affected since I mostly use procreate these days (god willing they don't go sub only) but freaking hell. I understand of course from a dev pov - why get a one-off fee when you can milk people for $5 a month or whatever? - but as someone who might feasibly have to actually pay it, lol fuck that shit
 
SpankyDoodle

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
The quoted text says that you can still buy it outright, so is this just them adding new ways to pay?

• Buy it outright
• Pay a yearly sub
• Pay a monthly sub

?
 
Bufbaf

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,654
Hamburg, Germany
wait what? What the fuck? What's with people who already paid for it? What?

Wait, that's not true though? You can still just buy version 2.0 if you want, that's not half as egregious as switching the complete model for everyone as the thread title suggests.
Am I missing something here?

Edit
Will I still be able to get free feature updates as I do now?
New features for the perpetual version will be included in each major version (2.0, 3.0, etc.), however, new feature updates will not be provided free of charge. Even if you have purchased the perpetual version of Version 2.0, you will still need to purchase an Update Pass in order to get access to new feature updates. If you are a Monthly Usage Plan or Update Pass customer, you will receive access to new feature updates (2.1, 2.2, 3.1, 3.2, etc.) as they become available for no extra charge.
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This is very confusing.

edit 2

senhyou_en.png


So no, even if you outright bought 2.0 you will need an "update pass" or sub as soon as 2.1, 2.2 etc hit. What the fuck.

Are there any worthwhile alternatives? I own CSP and Photoshop, but never got Photoshop to actually work for me when it comes to drawing. If there's good tutorials, I'd also be game for that.

Oh boy that Twitter thread :D Yeah this is only gonna make Krita run laps around CSP. Time to check that out I guess.
 
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SpankyDoodle

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
Bufbaf said:
wait what? What the fuck? What's with people who already paid for it? What?

Wait, that's not true though? You can still just buy version 2.0 if you want, that's not half as egregious as switching the complete model for everyone as the thread title suggests.
Am I missing something here?

Edit

This is very confusing.
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Oh what the fuck? So it looks like either

Stay on V1, no more updates/new features

Upgrade to V2 with a 1-time fee, but also no free updates

In order to get updates with new features, you have to buy a season pass, available monthly or yearly

Fuuuck that lmao
 
boris_feinbrand

boris_feinbrand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
Zulith said:
It says 2.0 will be available as a one time purchase. So… that sounds fine?
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That's how I understood this too.

Edit: just saw the Update bit... Yeah... I might just stick with 1 then. Not like they're going to reinvent the wheel with 2. Most of what I need from CSP is already there. And the rest I can do in Blender.

Celsys already moved hard in this direction for a while. Always maintained that I'd be out as soon as they tried shit like this on Desktop.

I don't even have a problem with paying for future updates per se. Perpetual free updates might not be really feasible.
 
Zulith

Zulith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,748
West Coast, USA
I see, so if you buy 2.1 you can't even update to 2.2 for free. Nor can you upgrade your perpetual 1.x license to any future version. It's either upgrade pass or you are stuck on an old version. Now that's a drag.

Guess we shouldn't be surprised considering how they are subscription based on the smart device version. They have probably wanted to make this change for a while.
 
Cipherr

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,435
Is there a good reason this is happening to lots of larger software suites like this outside of it being good for the company's bottom line? Like is there just so much consolidation that there's not enough competitors to keep this from happening? Were these companies operating at a loss during previous years/decades in order to establish themselves and are now pivoting to make a profit?

Just wondering why buying boxed software once upon a time worked just fine, and now so much stuff is switching to this or a similar model.
 
bloodyroarx

bloodyroarx

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,871
Ontario, Canada
Cipherr said:
Is there a good reason this is happening to lots of larger software suites like this outside of it being good for the company's bottom line? Like is there just so much consolidation that there's not enough competitors to keep this from happening? Were these companies operating at a loss during previous years/decades in order to establish themselves and are now pivoting to make a profit?

Just wondering why buying boxed software once upon a time worked just fine, and now so much stuff is switching to this or a similar model.
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simpsons-taxes.gif
 
chrominance

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,632
This is basically the model Jetbrains uses for development software: you pay for a subscription, but as long as you've paid for at least one year you can stop at any time and you get a perpetual license for the last version released inside the last full year you paid for.

Adobe's model is different: when you stop paying, you lose access to Creative Suite software entirely. There's no perpetual fallback version, you get nothing.

None of this is a commentary on whether this is a good move or not, just to say that it's not quite like Adobe's subscription model.

In terms of packaged software, this model doesn't seem that different: with very few exceptions, when you bought boxed software, you got a specific version and minor updates, but you didn't automatically get access to all future updates in perpetuity. Eventually the next major version of, say, Microsoft Office would come out and you'd have to buy that separately. The big difference is that minor updates seem to also be paid now, but I don't know enough about CSP to know if the minor versions are big deals or not given that CSP has been on version 1 for seemingly a very long time. Obviously the fact that you could've bought CSP years ago and received updates all this time, and now you can't, is a major change.
 
artsi

artsi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,686
Finland
I've been paying sub for years already with iPad Pro, seems like PC is just moving to the same model.

It's a very cheap sub, though. Less than $25 / year.
I also pay for Photoshop which is much more expensive.
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,055
I reluctantly signed up to Adobe's photography package for lightroom, but find myself still using the old version. Tempted to try and get my catalog exported to something else (although not sure what yet) and cancel.
 
Bufbaf

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,654
Hamburg, Germany
So what I'm learning from this is "Don't ever support your favorite hobbyist software that's loved by many with money, because they will inevitably trying to be as big and expensive as the top dogs, whose financial models always have been the only reason why people actually switched to the hobbyist software in the first place.

As a hobbyist artist, I might as well learn how to do things better in Photoshop proper, I sure as fuck won't pay two subscriptions for private and hobby drawing.


SirKai said:
Man this sucks. I've used CSP since it was Manga Studio, for like 8 years, and love it.
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Yup, and yup. It really sucks.
 
Arex

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,501
Indonesia
Welp, stuck with CSP 1.x I guess, it's pretty useful already as is now lol.

Kinda shitty that even if you get the CSP 2.0 perpetual you won't be able to get feature updates (2.1, 2.2 etc) for free.

Although tbf, the perpetual license price for CSP was pretty cheap (I think I bought mine for $29)

Bufbaf said:
So what I'm learning from this is "Don't ever support your favorite hobbyist software that's loved by many with money, because they will inevitably trying to be as big and expensive as the top dogs, whose financial models always have been the only reason why people actually switched to the hobbyist software in the first place.

As a hobbyist artist, I might as well learn how to do things better in Photoshop proper, I sure as fuck won't pay two subscriptions for private and hobby drawing.



Yup, and yup. It really sucks.
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It's still available perpetual for the price of a month subscription of Adobe (when on sale) so it's still a lot better than Adobe imo lol.
 
W-00

W-00

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,446
Do we have any idea what sort of features they plan to add under this new, subscription model? I've basically been ignoring CSP updates for a while now because I can't think of anything they could add that I, as a hobbyist, would be interested in. I'll probably just be staying on 1.x until I no longer have a device that runs it.
 
Dr Doom

Dr Doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,015
Thanks to this thread.

I need to cancel my Adobe subscription.

4 months no use just collecting money. This is why companies want subs
 
boris_feinbrand

boris_feinbrand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
If this works like the old Adobe model, where you can buy updates, this means I'll maybe buy the latest version when it becomes available. Unless they twist it into making released updates available once you stop buying the "battlepass"
 
boris_feinbrand

boris_feinbrand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
W-00 said:
Do we have any idea what sort of features they plan to add under this new, subscription model? I've basically been ignoring CSP updates for a while now because I can't think of anything they could add that I, as a hobbyist, would be interested in. I'll probably just be staying on 1.x until I no longer have a device that runs it.
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Even as an Illustrator there's not really much that the v1.x lavks for me. I suspect going forward they're going to improve their rendering of 3D models so you can more seamlessly integrate them into a piece without needing much retouching (better lighting and self shadowing alone would be a necessity) but between V1 and Blender I see no need to update.

And on Ipad I just use Procreate.
 
Bufbaf

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,654
Hamburg, Germany
boris_feinbrand said:
Even as an Illustrator there's not really much that the v1.x lavks for me. I suspect going forward they're going to improve their rendering of 3D models so you can more seamlessly integrate them into a piece without needing much retouching (better lighting and self shadowing alone would be a necessity) but between V1 and Blender I see no need to update.

And on Ipad I just use Procreate.
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I'm 100% convinced the first big feature will be a rework of the bucket tool, which then finally actually works over layers, plus, accordingly, a rework of pen strokes to not have THESE GODDAMN WHITE OUTLINES everywhere when saving and when bucketing.
 
Blairbat

Blairbat

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,101
Sacramento, California
I guess this makes Coral painter the last advance drawing program to not use a subscription. I think. I'm pretty sure it's a one time purchase of 200$ I think it's called Coral painter lol.

I have both Photoshop and clip studio paint. Maybe I should just toss both and buy that instead.
 
Bufbaf

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,654
Hamburg, Germany
Tic Tac said:
I guess this makes Coral painter the last advance drawing program to not use a subscription. I think. I'm pretty sure it's a one time purchase of 200$ I think it's called Coral painter lol.

I have both Photoshop and clip studio paint. Maybe I should just toss both and buy that instead.
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I tried Coral, and while it's super nice for painting, it sucks for drawing when you are doing comic/manga style stuff. Really hard to find an alternative in that specific space.
 
Arilian

Arilian

Member
Oct 29, 2020
2,348
YellowBara

YellowBara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,071
No way I'm paying that shit for a battle pass for my fucking art program. Sticking to my 1.0 for as long as I can. The literal one thing that set them apart being taken away... fuck off. Sub services for art need to die yesterday.

Celsys getting ratio'd to HELL on twitter is good though, dunno what they're thinking (besides money)
 
artsi

artsi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,686
Finland
Tic Tac said:
I guess this makes Coral painter the last advance drawing program to not use a subscription. I think. I'm pretty sure it's a one time purchase of 200$ I think it's called Coral painter lol.

I have both Photoshop and clip studio paint. Maybe I should just toss both and buy that instead.
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Honestly you can get 8 years of CSP subscription (at $25 / year) for that price and always have the new version - upgrading Corel will cost additional money to that $200.
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,658
Why do corporations love making decisions that will ultimately make them less money in the future cause it pisses EVERYONE off?
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,658
artsi said:
Let's be honest here, it doesn't make less money.
This is an old graph and the share price is $425 today so almost double from this.

BMrApJp.png
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I feel the difference being that Adobe products were already the biggest dogs in nearly every field. Like, products like CSP and such got popular because they weren't a sub-based like Adobe products and also weren't insanely expensive (pre-Adobe subs) right off the bat.

But now CSP is becoming a sub which will either make one of two things happen:
1. People will change to another one-time payment program
2. People will just say: "fuck it" and just sub back to Adobe

Sure, some people, obviously, will sub to CSP, but ultimately their probably going to lose out on way more people in the long run who would have bought one-time licenses. But hey, maybe the sub will be just expensive enough that they will lose half their user-base but still make a good profit.
 
Bufbaf

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,654
Hamburg, Germany
CSP is way bigger in Japan and the wider asia region, for Manga alone. I'm pretty sure the "uprising" of the western world over this decision won't really matter much in their overall perception.
But speaking of, do we know what the general feedback in the eastern world is over this change?

Kalentan said:
But now CSP is becoming a sub which will either make one of two things happen:
1. People will change to another one-time payment program
2. People will just say: "fuck it" and just sub back to Adobe
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I would agree on this with the exception that CSP just has a far better feel and workflow for actual drawing, and coloring, transformations and image improvements are nice, but don't really matter that much for the actual product. At least to me.
 
MikeProtagonist

MikeProtagonist

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,322
Damn, I was thinking of checking it out. I've been using Krita for most of my drawing and Photoshop Elements 2018 for layer work. Krita does most of what I need, but from what I can tell it can't scale multiple layers at once.
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,658
SpankyDoodle

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
Bufbaf said:
CSP is way bigger in Japan and the wider asia region, for Manga alone. I'm pretty sure the "uprising" of the western world over this decision won't really matter much in their overall perception.
But speaking of, do we know what the general feedback in the eastern world is over this change?
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I just saw a tweet saying they announced it across all regions at the same time and they're getting yelled at about it on all of them, I don't think this is just a western thing

Edit:


View: https://twitter.com/trungles/status/1561601389637378048?s=21&t=t9K7Lx4T7jnjylTYov2gow


View: https://twitter.com/theebileye/status/1561622637197025283?s=21&t=t9K7Lx4T7jnjylTYov2gow
 
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