(CNET) Phil Spencer: Project Scarlett likely isn't the last console. Best way to play games is on local device.

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,712
Q: Is this the last console?
Spencer: Honestly, I don't know. I've been around long enough to know that there have been multiple "this is the last generation." That's not a new meme that comes out.
When I look, even in a world of streaming and xCloud, and let's say streaming of any other form of media that's out there -- music, video -- the number of compute devices around us hasn't gone down, it's gone up.

So when we introduce streaming for us, which I think is the natural kind of thing to ask in this generation, "Hey, is this the last one?" I think what I see is streaming is going to enable this high-quality content to hit more screens around you. And I actually don't think that's going to lead to fewer screens around you. Different people will say different things on this, but the truth of the matter is that the best way for you to play a high-fidelity video game for years is going to be with a local device.

Q: You've suggested there are a lot of games being made by Xbox Game Studios. How many would you say are in the works?
Just do the math; we have 15 studios. And those teams have known about our roadmap for almost a year. So, you know, if you're a team that's building a game, and you're looking at 2020, or you're close to that, you're going to think about knowing that your early adopter of new hardware is usually a good gaming customer.
More at link: https://www.cnet.com/news/microsofts-xbox-chief-project-scarlett-likely-isnt-the-last-console/
 

Sulik2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,949
That second quote has me excited. If MS actually has 10-12 first party games ready for launch on gamepass in fall 2020 they could make an amazing argument for buying their console.
 

cmdrshepard

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
242
He is absolutely right. Regardless of advances in streaming technology in the next 5-10 years, nothing beats having the hardware in front of you and playing locally. I fully expect that this upcoming PS5/Scarlett/Next Nintendo will most certainly not be the last hardware generation.
 

Pat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
219
He says that because that's what people want to hear and not all are convinced with game streaming but once everybody is on board, he's going to say something else.

He just goes with the flow, they don't want to repeat the same mistake before the launch of Xbox One.
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,079
Could be just marketing, but it makes me happy non the less.
He says that because that's what people want to hear and not all are convinced with game streaming but once everybody is on board, he's going to say something else.

He just goes with the flow, they don't want to repeat the same mistake before the launch of Xbox One.

He's said this from day 1, he been very consistent on this, he knows its all about local gaming. You cant just change your generational roadmap based on whats sounds trendy, the teams have been given mandates, and technology is built around that.
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,376
Dedicated hardware isn't going away anytime soon, as we're a long way from having accessible, stable, quick, unlimited and not overly expensive high speed Internet available to everyone - and even then we're not counting mods and such. Streaming is definitely a future but not the only one, one I'm excited to explore but as a side activity, to bring with myself what I play at home on my console on the go, in a lunch break at work, on a commute, etc.. It's gonna be fun.
 

SG-17

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,111
Different people will say different things on this, but the truth of the matter is that the best way for you to play a high-fidelity video game for years is going to be with a local device.


People don't like to hear this but streaming games will NEVER be the primary or best way to play, not unless someone develops faster-than-light communication.

It's not like music or movies at all, games are interactive. Response time and latency matters. Ping and jitter and packet loss all matter a lot. There will never be a perfect solution to game streaming, there will always be input lag and artifacting issues.
 
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Khrol

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,712
What exactly are you trying to say here? I think he's been saying something like this for awhile. Streaming isn't a replacement.
I think enthusiasts naturally feel threatened so I understand the concern. But you're right; streaming isn't meant to be a replacement. It's meant to pull in new consumers and enhance the experience by offering more flexibility.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,967
"We know that the first customers for xCloud are going to be people who own an Xbox. It's going to be, 'Oh, I want to play my Xbox when I'm away.' Last month, Catherine [Gluckstein, chief of staff/strategy for Xbox] and I were in Africa. Not a lot of Xboxes in Africa. Not a lot of game consoles. 1.2 billion people on the continent of Africa. Average age is 19 on the continent. They know Fortnite, they know Halo, they know Gears of War. They just don't have a device.
"The highest fidelity experience in gaming, for years, will be playing from a local device that has a direct connection to that television, and a direct connection to your games. I am not trying to tell you that xCloud is going to be a higher fidelity experience than the experience you have today on a console. It is another choice for you to play, but it is a different choice."
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,787
That second quote has me excited. If MS actually has 10-12 first party games ready for launch on gamepass in fall 2020 they could make an amazing argument for buying their console.
I mean, if we assume that those games are actually ready, then yes, that would be good for 2020. For 2021 and 2022 however, not so much. Hugely unrealistic to expect MS to do more than a handful of first party games a year.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,967
I mean, if we assume that those games are actually ready, then yes, that would be good for 2020. For 2021 and 2022 however, not so much. Hugely unrealistic to expect MS to do more than a handful of first party games a year.
Their current goal is 4 a year, 1 per quarter.

“Hey get Xcloud! But consoles are the best way to play really. But ummm do try the inferior way too though!”
Streaming is for the convenience not for the fidelity and this applies to all streaming services.
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,225
Phil is going to keep saying this until people stop needing to hear it whether he believes it or not.
I have no idea what this statement even implies. If he keeps saying it, it means we can continue expecting local devices from them. And when they stop selling, of course he'll stop believing in it and we'll stop getting them.
 

the7egend

Member
Mar 6, 2018
74
Till infrastructure is upgraded everywhere game streaming services are still going to be niche markets. I think the software and hardware technologies behind them are fantastic and some games are extremely playable via streaming, but games that require precise timings for inputs and require low latency to be competitive just aren't realistic at this time for a vast majority of people.
 

ThankDougie

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,608
Buffalo
I feel like the only thing Microsoft hasn't made clear is whether adoption of the One X is a good idea this late in 2019 (or at all).

It sounds like the next Xbox is going to be a lot more powerful and it's only a year and a half away. I could, in the meantime, enjoy Game Pass for PC and get a lot out of that money. But there are plenty of games my PC can't handle and that makes a cheaper-than-PC alternative viable for me considering how infrequent my purchase of AAA games is... so do I go ahead with the One X and assume future games will work on it just fine? Or do I hold off, play the PC games I can, and dive in with the next system?

Or, third option, do I just buy a PC and tell myself most of the Xbox games are going to be available there anyway?

Microsoft is giving us a lot of options and I feel like that's a good thing, but the model is unfamiliar enough that I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not an Xbox-subscribed PC is really the best choice because I can upgrade it and not have to buy a new system every time I want better performance for newer games.

Where's the advantage in buying the console besides saving a little money in the short term?
 

ChaosZeroX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
700
Till infrastructure is upgraded everywhere game streaming services are still going to be niche markets. I think the software and hardware technologies behind them are fantastic and some games are extremely playable via streaming, but games that require precise timings for inputs and require low latency to be competitive just aren't realistic at this time for a vast majority of people.
I was legit typing something similar to this out.

Until infrastructure and speeds increase globally, Streaming games to your TV will always be niche.
 

Honome

Member
Jan 10, 2018
246
Rio de Janeiro
“Hey get Xcloud! But consoles are the best way to play really. But ummm do try the inferior way too though!”
Yeah, in one thread there's he saying that sell consoles is not the most important thing for microsoft and in this he says that consoles are the best way to play. lol

I really don't understand how people gives so much attention for what he says, as so many other said here he will always say what the person that's asking the question wants to hear. For me it's all marketing bullshit most of the time.
 

dotyoureyes

Member
Jun 11, 2019
351
Yeah, in one thread there's he saying that sell consoles is not the most important thing for microsoft and in this he says that consoles are the best way to play. lol

I really don't understand how people gives so much attention for what he says, as so many other said here he will always say what the person that's asking the question wants to hear. For me it's all marketing bullshit most of the time.
well in fairness it is his job really. But yes most of these corporate types take what they say with some salt.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,485
People don't like to hear this but streaming games will NEVER be the primary or best way to play, not unless someone develops faster-than-light communication.

It's not like music or movies at all, games are interactive. Response time and latency matters. Ping and jitter and packet loss all matter a lot. There will never be a perfect solution to game streaming, there will always be input lag and artifacting issues.
Amen. Stadia may well be a wonderful thing for lots and lots of people, but it's not at all the same as a home console.
 

Parenegade

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,793
I have no idea what this statement even implies. If he keeps saying it, it means we can continue expecting local devices from them. And when they stop selling, of course he'll stop believing in it and we'll stop getting them.
My point is he could believe in an all digital streaming future deep down but would never express it because gamers are ultimately luddites and would flip out at the mention of it.
 

Ryengeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,673
Georgia, US
Some people feel the same way about steaming as some feel about VR; that it'll replace traditional gaming as a whole. However, that won't be the case for a while. All forms of gaming will co-exist but none can really replace the other yet.
 

AM_LIGHT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,277
Gamepass is the only subscription along Netflix that I’ll never cancel, especially if they keep adding quality games like they do now.
 

SeeingeyeDug

Member
Oct 28, 2017
831
The mainline new machines will likely still have optical drives and people predicted the end of that ages ago. People predict the end of technology too early. There’s still going to be enough people buying physical and playing locally to keep these things around.
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
917
Yeah, in one thread there's he saying that sell consoles is not the most important thing for microsoft and in this he says that consoles are the best way to play. lol

I really don't understand how people gives so much attention for what he says, as so many other said here he will always say what the person that's asking the question wants to hear. For me it's all marketing bullshit most of the time.
He really comes off as he if he doesn’t believe in the technology himself. If he’s not bought in as if xcloud is an equal alternative to console gaming, why should we?
 

Epinephrine

Member
Oct 27, 2017
509
North Carolina
Thanks to the laws of physics, the lowest latency will also be on local systems. If you want the best quality for something, it's got to be local, there is not nor will there ever be a way around that.
 

yyr

Member
Nov 14, 2017
577
White Plains, NY
I'm really glad that he's a gamer, and he "gets it," and that MS is on board for traditional console gaming because they realize that's what traditional console gamers want.

Over the last 10 years, we saw 3D being sold as the "next big thing," and then we watched it come and go. We saw this generation's VR launch mostly to collective shrugs; it is still just a small niche. Not a single AAA developer has actually gone all in on it; gamers have noticed, and few of them care all that much. It was hardly the "next big thing." And now streaming is being positioned as "the next big thing," which it is not. I'm happy that Xbox as a brand has mostly ignored all of these fads and focused more on the games and entertainment that the masses actually consume on a daily basis. I hope that console streaming/xCloud turns out to be a nice way to access your game library remotely when you're traveling, and nothing more...definitely not a focal point of the business.

He says that because that's what people want to hear and not all are convinced with game streaming but once everybody is on board, he's going to say something else.
I'm sure we'll see a lot of posts like this over the next 12-24 months. And then we'll forget about streaming, and we'll all move on.
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,079
“Hey get Xcloud! But consoles are the best way to play really. But ummm do try the inferior way too though!”
Not what he said, is this a deliberate distortion or did you not read what he said?

- Xbox local is the best way to play games, thats his statement
- Streaming is an option if you want, but it will not deliver the same quality as local.

Its not hard to understand, he's quite clear actually.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,937
My point is he could believe in an all digital streaming future deep down but would never express it because gamers are ultimately luddites and would flip out at the mention of it.
1. Sub to MS gaming services (or buy individual games digitally through MS/partner online stores)

2. Download games from the service/store to MS console (or Windows PC) [this is the preferred method he's most likely speaking of, when he says local device; sure, you can still buy physical discs too, but that is no longer the business focus; max performance will naturally be on local hardware installation]

3. ALT - Stream to MS console or Windows PC or smartphone or tablet or smart TV [this is the alternative gaming solution they are promoting/working on, in lieu of a dedicated local gaming console and physical discs]
 
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Khrol

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,712
I feel like the only thing Microsoft hasn't made clear is whether adoption of the One X is a good idea this late in 2019 (or at all).

It sounds like the next Xbox is going to be a lot more powerful and it's only a year and a half away. I could, in the meantime, enjoy Game Pass for PC and get a lot out of that money. But there are plenty of games my PC can't handle and that makes a cheaper-than-PC alternative viable for me considering how infrequent my purchase of AAA games is... so do I go ahead with the One X and assume future games will work on it just fine? Or do I hold off, play the PC games I can, and dive in with the next system?

Or, third option, do I just buy a PC and tell myself most of the Xbox games are going to be available there anyway?

Microsoft is giving us a lot of options and I feel like that's a good thing, but the model is unfamiliar enough that I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not an Xbox-subscribed PC is really the best choice because I can upgrade it and not have to buy a new system every time I want better performance for newer games.

Where's the advantage in buying the console besides saving a little money in the short term?
Phil Spencer
What I want you to think about in this is the players, not the specific version of a console they have. I think the question there is, “Is there a customer for the highest performing console, and are there enough customers where that makes sense?” If somebody bought an Xbox One X yesterday, I want them to feel completely that they can have a great experience for years and years. I also want to be as transparent as I can with them about the road map. So if somebody is sitting on the original Xbox One now, and they’re thinking about an X, they can make their own decision about what platform they want to have.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,967
He really comes off as he if he doesn’t believe in the technology himself. If he’s not bought in as if xcloud is an equal alternative to console gaming, why should we?
What? He's clearly bought in. He's constantly using it and has mentioned times where he's used it while he was in Japan and Africa. He understands that it's not the best way to play, local is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,199
He really comes off as he if he doesn’t believe in the technology himself. If he’s not bought in as if xcloud is an equal alternative to console gaming, why should we?
I don't really think there's any inherent contradiction. Both can serve a role simultaneously. And furthermore as long as one isn't pitched as a replacement for the other they can co-exist. The pitch of cloud gaming is not needing to buy expensive hardware. It's not something I myself am very excited about, but I get it. Stadia may be all in on selling their product as being just as good if not better than the hardware being in your living room because they're only selling a cloud product (for now at least), but Microsoft is trying to exist in both places. They don't need to convince you that xcloud is just as good as buying a Scarlet. They just need to convince you that xcloud is worthwhile enough if you don't want to spend the money on Scarlet. Conversely, if you're undecided on whether you value performance or convenience but skew towards the former, it's their job to convince you that the investment in Scarlet is worth it.
 

Crusadernm

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,866
As Sony uses azure. Ms will probably get a cut of psplus or psnow revenue. Also Microsoft is giving gamers so many choices in how to buy and play their games and where to play them. It's all about maximizing opportunities. Game pass will be a monster next gen as word of mouth continues to spread.