(CNET) Phil Spencer: Project Scarlett likely isn't the last console. Best way to play games is on local device.

Deleted member 47843

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Yeah I think it will be like music and movies. Dedicated hardware and physical media will stick around, but over time the market will shift to those being for enthusiasts while average users are fine with streams even if the quality is lower. I'm guilty of this myself as I was a pretty big buyer of CDs, DVDs and Blurays up to my mid 30s or so. I eventually regretted it and tossed/recycled cases and put all that shit in binders a couple years ago. Now I just have 20 or so Blurays on the top shelf of my 3-shelf book case in my office/game room--just favorites like Star Wars, LOTR, Matrix trilogy etc--and the only thing I still buy/collect are Star Wars movies. I could honestly ditch those binders of CDs/DVDs/Blurays etc. and not miss it as I've not even unzipped them once in the 2+ years of putting stuff in there and most anything I'd want to watch/listen to is probably on one of the streaming services we have (Spotify, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu). I just can't bring myself to as it's a few thousand dollars and doesn't take up much space in the closet.

Gaming I never got the collecting bug as I've always seldom replayed games and thus always sold games off, sold (or traded in with good programs to avoid buyer scams/hassle) consoles when I was done with a generation. I still do that, but have shifted more to just buying in digital sales and will embrace things like Gamepass more going forward as it makes so much more sense financially for someone that rarely touches games after the credits roll. Same with music and movies--so much money wasted on CDs I listenened to for a month or two movies I bought and watched once (or never if I already saw it in theaters).

Physical hardware and media makes sense for the diehards who want the best quality and revisit things regularly, much less so for those of us who are more disposable and casual consumers of content.
 

dotyoureyes

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Jun 11, 2019
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As Sony uses azure. Ms will probably get a cut of psplus or psnow revenue. Also Microsoft is giving gamers so many choices in how to buy and play their games and where to play them. It's all about maximizing opportunities. Game pass will be a monster next gen as word of mouth continues to spread.
LOL that's not how it works..you pay for what you use in Azure MS doesn;t get a curt of profits.
 

Jmdajr

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Oct 25, 2017
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My current download speed is 250 mbs.
My upload??? 10mbs... FUCKING 10. And it used to be 5mbs. 10 was the best they would give me on what I was willing to pay.

I can't imagine my console stream will be great on that. And that's the speed that counts.
 

Ryengeku

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Oct 26, 2017
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I'm really glad that he's a gamer, and he "gets it," and that MS is on board for traditional console gaming because they realize that's what traditional console gamers want.

Over the last 10 years, we saw 3D being sold as the "next big thing," and then we watched it come and go. We saw this generation's VR launch mostly to collective shrugs; it is still just a small niche. Not a single AAA developer has actually gone all in on it; gamers have noticed, and few of them care all that much. It was hardly the "next big thing." And now streaming is being positioned as "the next big thing," which it is not. I'm happy that Xbox as a brand has mostly ignored all of these fads and focused more on the games and entertainment that the masses actually consume on a daily basis.
Statements like this don't make much sense in the landscape of how things are right now. MS skipping out on VR didn't make them focus on traditional gaming in hindsight, which essentially resulted in less games.

VR is definitely not like 3D or Kinect but rather an evolution that is slowly picking up steam in both the console and PC space.
 
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Khrol

Khrol

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Oct 28, 2017
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As long as consoles continue to sell gangbusters, they arent going anywhere.
That's pretty much all there is to it. I've personally worried about streaming and the shift to prioritize it, but enthusiasts have very little to worry about for the foreseeable future.

Another quote from Phil on the importance of hardware:
So this is a little bit why we've backed away from the race on how many we can sell, or announce the sales of as many consoles as possible. Not that that's immaterial; I'm not at all trying to say that. But the real root of the business is how many customers are engaged in your service. How engaged are they? And can you keep that number growing?
 
Oct 27, 2017
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It's always been about options. He's always said this. He even said it at this year's conference.

Fanboys/people that can't read on here trying to spin it any other way is silly.
 

Crusadernm

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Nov 12, 2017
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It's always been about options. He's always said this. He even said it at this year's conference.

Fanboys/people that can't read on here trying to spin it any other way is silly.
Yep. I will use xcloud when I'm on the road, trips or just outside long periods of time on my phone or tablet or PC. Easier than logging my xbox everywhere. Will be incredible.
 

Idontwantit

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Jun 9, 2019
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Doesnt streaming have advantages over a local device? They can stack 20 Gamecubes in there and send you the results. You can't do that at home.
 

maximumzero

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Oct 25, 2017
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Consoles will be around for at least another 20+ years I would imagine. Building a PC is outside the wheelhouse of most customers, and you can't even build a PC for the cost of a Xbox One these days anyway. Streaming ala Stadia may eventually take over but the US' infrastructure is still woefully behind for that to happen for quite a while.
 

Csr

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Nov 6, 2017
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Phil is going to keep saying this until people stop needing to hear it whether he believes it or not.
If he is saying it because (most) people need to hear it then it means (most) people want local hardware so then what he is saying is actually true and not pr.
Casuals are an unknown quantity, there is no indication yet that millions of casuals will use game streaming to the point where local hardware will be obsolete and certainly not anytime soon.
 

LebGuns

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Oct 25, 2017
936
Not what he said, is this a deliberate distortion or did you not read what he said?

- Xbox local is the best way to play games, thats his statement
- Streaming is an option if you want, but it will not deliver the same quality as local.

Its not hard to understand, he's quite clear actually.
He LITERALLY says “Different people will say different things on this, but the truth of the matter is that the best way for you to play a high-fidelity video game for years is going to be with a local device.”

It’s not hard to understand, he’s quite clear actually.
 

Ramala

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Oct 28, 2017
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People don't like to hear this but streaming games will NEVER be the primary or best way to play, not unless someone develops faster-than-light communication.

It's not like music or movies at all, games are interactive. Response time and latency matters. Ping and jitter and packet loss all matter a lot. There will never be a perfect solution to game streaming, there will always be input lag and artifacting issues.
The PC will always exist. For those that can’t afford a powerful one there’s streaming. If Sony ditches consoles they just might put all their games out on PC anyway.
 

SoaringDive

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Feb 3, 2019
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One of the biggest advantages to XCloud is its ability to complement your existing console. For example, Sea of Thieves doesn't have splitscreen. But instead of wasting hundreds of dollars on an additional console to play multiplayer, we can use one of our already existing devices (eg. laptop) for the second player.

This will be huge for co-op games that don't have splitscreen.
 

Bradbatross

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Mar 17, 2018
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He LITERALLY says “Different people will say different things on this, but the truth of the matter is that the best way for you to play a high-fidelity video game for years is going to be with a local device.”

It’s not hard to understand, he’s quite clear actually.
Well yea, it's a fact that consoles are going to be the best way to play. Streaming will also be a good option for some people. it's not hard to understand.
 

yyr

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Nov 14, 2017
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MS skipping out on VR didn't make them focus on traditional gaming in hindsight, which essentially resulted in less games.

VR is definitely not like 3D or Kinect but rather an evolution that is slowly picking up steam in both the console and PC space.
There were definitely holes in their lineup over the last few years and I'm happy that they're working to fill them now.

Isn't the current VR generation just a typical niche? It has some solid games, some rabid fans, and handfuls of people discovering it over time. But the mass market has largely ignored it, possibly due to the fact that major developers and publishers have also largely ignored it. The tech has been marginally advancing and the hardware manufacturers are dropping prices to sustain interest, but just dropping the price isn't enough. There need to be more big games. Is anyone really talking about the VR games shown at E3 this year?
 

ghibli99

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Oct 27, 2017
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I like it. Keep giving us options. I'll always lean towards having dedicated hardware to play games locally, but having streaming options in addition to the former isn't a bad thing.
 

Crusadernm

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Nov 12, 2017
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One of the biggest advantages to XCloud is its ability to complement your existing console. For example, Sea of Thieves doesn't have splitscreen. But instead of wasting hundreds of dollars on an additional console to play multiplayer, we can use one of our already existing devices (eg. laptop) for the second player.

This will be huge for co-op games that don't have splitscreen.
Great point to make. Its very consumer friendly.
 

Crusadernm

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Nov 12, 2017
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There were definitely holes in their lineup over the last few years and I'm happy that they're working to fill them now.

Isn't the current VR generation just a typical niche? It has some solid games, some rabid fans, and handfuls of people discovering it over time. But the mass market has largely ignored it, possibly due to the fact that major developers and publishers have also largely ignored it. The tech has been marginally advancing and the hardware manufacturers are dropping prices to sustain interest, but just dropping the price isn't enough. There need to be more big games. Is anyone really talking about the VR games shown at E3 this year?
I still consider vr niche. From the last few days of e3 coverage. Have not heard any major outlets talk about VR. The silence is deafening.
 

LebGuns

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Oct 25, 2017
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Well yea, it's a fact that consoles are going to be the best way to play. Streaming will also be a good option for some people. it's not hard to understand.
I don’t think you understand my problem with his statement, so yeah I think it is in fact hard to understand. Thanks for minimizing my complaints though.
 
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Khrol

Khrol

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Oct 28, 2017
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I don’t think you understand my problem with his statement, so yeah I think it is in fact hard to understand. Thanks for minimizing my complaints though.
The fact that you would have a problem with him being honest and realistic about the different technologies is very curious.
 

Bradbatross

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Mar 17, 2018
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I don’t think you understand my problem with his statement, so yeah I think it is in fact hard to understand. Thanks for minimizing my complaints though.
You're saying streaming is inferior to console. Everyone knows that and Phil states that, but streaming is still going to be a good option for a lot of people in many different scenarios.
 

LebGuns

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Oct 25, 2017
936
You're doing a terrible job of presenting any sort of argument so I don't know what you expected.
The fact that you would have a problem with him being honest and realistic about the different technologies is very curious.
I’ve been staying my argument over and over again but some of you choose to either belittle, disregard, or ignore for the sake of being intentionally obtuse.

Problem: Guy leading the xcloud charge himself says its not as good as playing locally. So, why would I pick it over local play? I wouldn’t.

So, he choose it for play on the go right? Why? When the switch is available to do just that and do it without an Internet connection, and without milking my data caps, and also no lag.

So the problems in my view that makes this unappealing are two-fold: Play on the go has superior alternatives. Play at home has superior alternatives.

Is this clear to all?
 

christocolus

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Oct 27, 2017
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That second quote has me excited. If MS actually has 10-12 first party games ready for launch on gamepass in fall 2020 they could make an amazing argument for buying their console.
Yup. There is definitely stuff cooking they arent even talking about. this is from the Eurogamer interview

You had a massive number of games on show today - a very broad offering. But in terms of exclusives, I got the feeling you were holding some things back for next year to show off. Maybe some of the studios you've signed recently, we'll see the fruits of those further down the line?
Matt Booty : We showed up with 60 games on stage, 14 of which were from Xbox Game Studios. We need to pause and give some recognition to the studios which, less than a year after we did the acquisition, we're already seeing things on our stage. Equally, I'm excited for the things waiting in the wings. We have a lot of stuff we did not show. Stuff which, as you say, will be coming online as we get further into this.
It's interesting you brought that up as we had that discussion during rehearsals. We have 14 games here from Xbox Game Studios but we're not emptying the tank, getting everything we've got and just throwing it on stage.
I get it, you have a big console to market next year and you have to come out then swinging. But I know a lot of Fable fans today who were hoping for a little something...
Matt Booty : [Laughs] Like I said... a lot of great stuff waiting in the wings for next year. Hope to have you back in a year.
 
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Bradbatross

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Mar 17, 2018
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I’ve been staying my argument over and over again but some of you choose to either belittle, disregard, or ignore for the sake of being intentionally obtuse.

Problem: Guy leading the xcloud charge himself says its not as good as playing locally. So, why would I pick it over local play? I wouldn’t.

So, he choose it for play on the go right? Why? When the switch is available to do just that and do it without an Internet connection, and without milking my data caps, and also no lag.

So the problems in my view that makes this unappealing are two-fold: Play on the go has superior alternatives. Play at home has superior alternatives.

Is this clear to all?
So all I'm getting is that you're not interested in streaming... Cool, plenty of people are. Also last time I checked, owning a Switch doesn't give you access to your Xbox library.
 

plagiarize

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Oct 25, 2017
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I think the most important thing Phil said this week, was how the lesson they learned this gen was that not everyone wants the same thing. I presume he was referring to the original idea for games that installed on the Xbox One and didn't need putting in the system every time we wanted to play (like on PC, where we all have no issues with the idea), and how they completely missed that a very large group of people *don't* want that. They want to own their games on a disk where they can resell them, or lend them to other people, or not worry in twenty years if they'll work etc.

And so with streaming, I presume they understand that while SOME people want the convenience of it, many of us don't want the latency or the lack of 'ownership' that comes with it.

I do believe that Microsoft have *learned* from what happened with the Xbox One launch. They haven't just been saying the right things, they've been doing them. Allowing x86/x64 games on the Store. Launching a great deal like gamepass. Cross play. Cross buy. Starting launch games on other platforms than their own store. Releasing games on Switch.

Etc etc etc.

I think at this point I believe that they really DID learn that lesson, and aren't just waiting for the next opportunity to force us all into a digital only / games as service reality forever. Obviously, that might prove to be misplaced trust on my part, but action speak louder than words as they say, and their actions over the last few years have told me that they genuinely get it.
 

digitalrelic

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Oct 25, 2017
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I’ve been staying my argument over and over again but some of you choose to either belittle, disregard, or ignore for the sake of being intentionally obtuse.

Problem: Guy leading the xcloud charge himself says its not as good as playing locally. So, why would I pick it over local play? I wouldn’t.

So, he choose it for play on the go right? Why? When the switch is available to do just that and do it without an Internet connection, and without milking my data caps, and also no lag.

So the problems in my view that makes this unappealing are two-fold: Play on the go has superior alternatives. Play at home has superior alternatives.

Is this clear to all?
When has Phil or MS ever stated it even implied that xCloud would be superior to local play? What the hell are you even talking about?

xCloud has always been touted as a way to play your next gen games on the go. That's something the Switch will never be able to do.
 

xxracerxx

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Oct 25, 2017
14,962
I’ve been staying my argument over and over again but some of you choose to either belittle, disregard, or ignore for the sake of being intentionally obtuse.

Problem: Guy leading the xcloud charge himself says its not as good as playing locally. So, why would I pick it over local play? I wouldn’t.

So, he choose it for play on the go right? Why? When the switch is available to do just that and do it without an Internet connection, and without milking my data caps, and also no lag.

So the problems in my view that makes this unappealing are two-fold: Play on the go has superior alternatives. Play at home has superior alternatives.

Is this clear to all?
But it isn’t about just playing any games on the go, it’s about playing games that you play on your Xbox (through services or owning) on the go. Just because Switch is a thing doesn’t negate their vision and the same could be said for the console being a superior performance to streaming.
 

TheGhost

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Oct 25, 2017
12,496
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But I thought hardware didn;t matter? Streaming is going to be niche for a long time yet.
Who said hardware didn't matter? Subscriptions matter more yes but hardware is still the best way to play. He also knows alot of people look for cheap entry points and those same people don't know Jack or care about resolution/frames/Ray tracing/CPU/gpu's or latency.

In the grand scheme he don't care how you play as long as you pay.
 

Dphex

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,781
Cologne, Germany
"Best way to play games is on local device"

Amen

just because there are MP3´s and streaming music doesn´t mean there aren´t audiophiles still buying vinyl and CD´s. same will be reality for gaming in a decade, for most of the mass market consumers streaming will be fine, for enthusiasts there will still be boxes.
 

Bradbatross

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Mar 17, 2018
3,663
See I knew some of you on here have no real argument


Good for you buddy, good for you.
What's your argument? That people who want to play their Xbox games on the go should buy a Switch? lol

What about people who want to play the next big GTA or Cyberpunk on the go, should they also get a Switch?
 

bsigg

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Oct 25, 2017
8,022
I’ve been staying my argument over and over again but some of you choose to either belittle, disregard, or ignore for the sake of being intentionally obtuse.

Problem: Guy leading the xcloud charge himself says its not as good as playing locally. So, why would I pick it over local play? I wouldn’t.

So, he choose it for play on the go right? Why? When the switch is available to do just that and do it without an Internet connection, and without milking my data caps, and also no lag.

So the problems in my view that makes this unappealing are two-fold: Play on the go has superior alternatives. Play at home has superior alternatives.

Is this clear to all?
The Switch isn't an answer for someone who is playing games on their Xbox at home and wants to continue to play Destiny 2, Gears 5, Halo Infinite when they don't have access to a console or PC but have a phone. It's also a long term play. Some airlines are already looking into putting 5G connectivity into their planes.

Streaming isn't meant to replace local play, it's meant to accompany it and provide more options to people.
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,149
I don’t think you understand my problem with his statement, so yeah I think it is in fact hard to understand. Thanks for minimizing my complaints though.
You are all over the place, its not just me in this thread, what exactly are you trying to say as its clear your having some difficulty expressing yourself.

I’ve been staying my argument over and over again but some of you choose to either belittle, disregard, or ignore for the sake of being intentionally obtuse.

Problem: Guy leading the xcloud charge himself says its not as good as playing locally. So, why would I pick it over local play? I wouldn’t.

So, he choose it for play on the go right? Why? When the switch is available to do just that and do it without an Internet connection, and without milking my data caps, and also no lag.

So the problems in my view that makes this unappealing are two-fold: Play on the go has superior alternatives. Play at home has superior alternatives.

Is this clear to all?
Ok, but thats an entirely different strategy. They dont want to sell another device for mobile gaming, just use what you have, and take your controller if you need to. Im still having troubling understanding why your linking Switch 'on-the-go' gaming to xCloud for existing devices. They're completely unrelated, im quite astonished thats what you decided to extract from his comment. People may not want to buy dedicated mobile gaming console, most people own phones though, its an option for them.
 
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xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,962
You are all over the place, its not just me in this thread, what exactly are you trying to say as its clear your having some difficulty expressing yourself.
I feel their entire point is:

  • Switch exists therefore they don’t need streaming.
  • A physical console exists therefore they don’t need streaming.

That’s it. It really makes no sense in this thread, but there you have it.
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
936
Yeah, and everyone completely dismantled your argument and you have no rational response to it. Bye.
“Dismantled”. Ah, sure. It’s hard arguing with people that want to disregard real criticism. But sure, I had no “rational response”. Truth of the matter remote play has been here for ages, PS NOW too, and that didn’t take off. Proponents for streaming like to minimize those two technologies because it doesn’t fit your narrative. Now you want to minimize the fact that local hardware exists that can do play on the go even better. The counter argument to this is this small pie of people that want to play their Xbox games on the go. But these same people want to do this at least in the same quality as local play, something the Xbox guy said is not the case.

As someone who has tried remote play, PS NOW, OnLive, if streaming does not replicate local play it’s hard to adopt. This is MY opinion of course.
 

AtomicShroom

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Oct 28, 2017
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There will never be a perfect solution to game streaming, there will always be input lag and artifacting issues.
Never say never. Give it 20 years, more or less. Think back to how fast/reliable your internet was 20 years ago. Now extrapolate 20 years into the future. We'll be streaming all over the place like there's no tomorrow.