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Oct 25, 2017
29,502
I really do think when we have a remotely competent government they should immediately go after the bottom of the barrel stuff that shouldn't take much debate,
Even if its a 1% difference thats some lives saved in the end.
1. Some kind of ammunition regulation
2. Banning large magazines from all weapon types(especially handguns)
3. Possession of any type of "modification" like a bumpstock would be a felony
4. Possession of unlicensed/registered/etc weapons becomes extremely elevated in severity, along with all other gun related crime.
 

Sacrilicious

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,323
One of my mom's friends posted a quote image of a student saying "God, why don't you prevent violence in our schools", and God answers, "I'm not allowed in schools."

I wanted to puke.

That comment would be in poor taste in any situation, but it's even worse considering the previous mass shooting took place in a church.

It's sad how quickly people forget these events now.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
796


Surely with a unified, Republican controlled government we should be seeing meaningful gun legislation any day now, right?

Right?


I'm confused, when did the GOP claim they wanted meaningful gun legislation? And he's absolutely right. The party that claims they do want gun legislation had both houses and POTUS, and even a super majority which they used to pass the ACA, and they failed to do anything substantial. They shouldn't be absolved of blame but I'm guessing people will bend over backwards to do so.
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
How's your access to guns and what's the school bullying situation?

Let's assume bullying in my country is really horrible, perhaps even worse than in the United States. The outcome would still be zero casualties due to mass shootings. Trying to find any reason for the increase other than easy access to lethal weapons is a waste of effort. It's only the access to guns that matters.

It's the guns, stupid.
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
I'm confused, when did the GOP claim they wanted meaningful gun legislation? And he's absolutely right. The party that claims they do want gun legislation had both houses and POTUS, and even a super majority which they used to pass the ACA, and they failed to do anything substantial. They shouldn't be absolved of blame but I'm guessing people will bend over backwards to do so.

No, for once Trump is right. Here's a contemporary article noting the concern on the left that President Obama and the Democrat-controlled Congress were seemingly unwilling to push gun control. The only bills being passed, it was remarked, were those strengthening gun ownership.

https://amp/thehill.com/homenews/ad...ses-obama-dem-congress-have-been-gun-friendly
 

Kimura

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,034
I think the only solution to this might be to embrace states rights. Half the country is conservative, half is liberal. It will never be unified or healed. You're better off going your separate ways and make 50 individual countries where you can have pockets of liberal and conservative strongholds. And then, we shall see who will do well in the global landscape.
Conservatives are never going to learn from their bad policies, because the entire country is always paying for their mistake. No wonder they still believe in trickle down economics. Rich states like New York and California are always paying for their stupidity. Your tax dollars go to spread that hate and ignorance.
These people are NEVER going to change their tune until THEY have to clean up their own mess. That's the only way they'll learn. What's the point of winning the white house in 3 years, when the republicans will obstruct everything you do? The pendulum keeps swining back and forth, and there are just too many ignorant conservative people. You cannot win. Even if you win, you lose. The right wing in America are not conservative, many of them are extremist.

If states like Oregon, Washington, Cali, New York and others decide embrace state rights, they have a much better chance at banning all firearms, full stop in their states.

I'm not saying that you should stop being a United States with your own currency, presidency and identity, but it's clear that the democratic process is being destroyed by political lobbying and corruption. You're too many people, and your states are too culturally different to have everything fit under one banner. What works in Oregon might not work in Alabama. Self governance becomes a much better idea when your country are actively destroying each other. Nobody can get anything done, and what gets done, gets destroyed by the other side, out of spite.

The European Union doesn't hold the answer as it has the opposite problem. But the other members can learn from the UKs stupidity and not have to pay for their stupidity. That's the key difference. You're not going to learn anything if you don't feel the blunt force of your actions.

If you have free mobility of people, you'd hope that all progressives would flock to progressive states, and maybe even flip some. Let's see a texas with 0% income tax, and a California with 40%. Let them battle it out, and we'll see which states will yield the most economic revenue and well being for people. I have a feeling the conservative strongholds will fall on such hard times, that they will look at how good they have it in the liberal places and turn them. The best way to show your way is better is not talking about it, but actually being able to live it and prove it. So you can see the contrast between conservative states that are falling apart and liberal ones that are doing much better.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,352
I would say the lack of political leadership about gun ownership is a factor.

On both sides the NRA have influence.

Just look at what happened after Trump was elected. Gun ownership from Democrats spiked.

When the answer to any problems in life or political debate is to buy more guns, you have a problem.

One day, people in the US will wake up to the fact that despite the rhetoric, unfettered access to deadly weaponry is not worth the cost. Until then this will happen time and time again.
 

Fanatic

Member
Oct 30, 2017
580
Denmark
Fanatic is your right to bear arms worth the thousands of people that die in the United States every year from guns?
First of all I'm not an American, I'm a European gun owner in support of gun rights.

But yes, hypothetically I do think it's a necessary evil, I wish it didn't cost as many lives as it do, but the upside of independence is worth it to me. Having to rely on the government for your protection is just something I can never get behind.

I guess this might be surprising to some people, but I'm actually for the most part a socialist, I do believe in social economics and I also believe if people are content and happy they're less likely to commit violent crime.

That's a major reason why firearms kill so many people in the U.S. poverty and lack of social care of each other.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,274
I knew if they weren't going to do anything after Sandy Hook, then they certainly aren't going to care about anything that comes after.
 

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,795
Call of Duty started getting really big about 10 years ago. I dunno, maybe it played a part in desensitization and gun/violence glorification.

As a gamer, I don't like to admit that that's a possible cause. It could play a part, though.

Most gamers like to scoff at the idea games could SOMEHOW influence violence, but I absolutely believe it plays a roll in desensitizing them and getting more people interested in gun culture. The more young people (insert young people are under pressure from social media and changing economics debate here) are interested in guns, the more they will buy, the more activity goes on that makes identifying people with guns who are dangerous more difficult (would the shooter have stood out more if fewer people his age were into weapons? Of course.) and the higher chance you have for violence and others being inspired by it.

I've always found Modern COD to be distasteful when did realistically gunning down people in the most realistic fashion start becoming entertainment? It's not Halo were weird funny aliens get gunned down and bleed blue blood, when you play COD every civilian or soldier you hurt is asking you to forget that the character they represent is supposed to have a family as you fun them down in the most realistic way possible. Sure you had Goldeneye and WW2 games before... or even Syphon Filter and the list goes on, but none of those put an emphasis on gun culture and actual realism. Well, WW2 COD and it's companions did, but it was always disconnected from modern day reality and was more of a window of history wrapped up in an entertaining package. Also, fuck MW2 for ever thinking the mass shooting airport mission was ever okay.

The Columbine shooters and their attachment to doom... well I don't think it's any stretch to say they had an unhealthy relationship with the game, but it stems from unhealthy social behavior to begin with. I think games will always appeal to those who have a harder time forming meaningful social attachments and surrounding an unhealthy mind with violence who grow to be desensitized to it can never be a good thing.

Games like modern COD will continue to play an influence, as will a number of other things. But it annoys the hell out of me when gamers are so quick to rush to "NO THE GAMES DONT MAKE US DO ANYTHING I AM FINE AND I PLAY THEM" purely because they are worried about their toys being taken away.
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
Most gamers like to scoff at the idea games could SOMEHOW influence violence, but I absolutely believe it plays a roll in desensitizing them and getting more people interested in gun culture.

We have those games in the UK too. Guess how many school mass shootings the UK has had in the past twenty years.

This isn't rocket science.

It's the guns, stupid.
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
Most gamers like to scoff at the idea games could SOMEHOW influence violence, but I absolutely believe it plays a roll in desensitizing them and getting more people interested in gun culture. The more young people (insert young people are under pressure from social media and changing economics debate here) are interested in guns, the more they will buy, the more activity goes on that makes identifying people with guns who are dangerous more difficult (would the shooter have stood out more if fewer people his age were into weapons? Of course.) and the higher chance you have for violence and others being inspired by it.

I've always found Modern COD to be distasteful when did realistically gunning down people in the most realistic fashion start becoming entertainment? It's not Halo were weird funny aliens get gunned down and bleed blue blood, when you play COD every civilian or soldier you hurt is asking you to forget that the character they represent is supposed to have a family as you fun them down in the most realistic way possible. Sure you had Goldeneye and WW2 games before... or even Syphon Filter and the list goes on, but none of those put an emphasis on gun culture and actual realism. Well, WW2 COD and it's companions did, but it was always disconnected from modern day reality and was more of a window of history wrapped up in an entertaining package. Also, fuck MW2 for ever thinking the mass shooting airport mission was ever okay.

The Columbine shooters and their attachment to doom... well I don't think it's any stretch to say they had an unhealthy relationship with the game, but it stems from unhealthy social behavior to begin with. I think games will always appeal to those who have a harder time forming meaningful social attachments and surrounding an unhealthy mind with violence who grow to be desensitized to it can never be a good thing.

Games like modern COD will continue to play an influence, as will a number of other things. But it annoys the hell out of me when gamers are so quick to rush to "NO THE GAMES DONT MAKE US DO ANYTHING I AM FINE AND I PLAY THEM" purely because they are worried about their toys being taken away.

You know psych studies disprove the fact that games have affects. If it's about realism, movies have been violent for decades. Add to that the fact that games are played in every other country and mass shootings haven't gone nuts like in the states.
 

Fanatic

Member
Oct 30, 2017
580
Denmark
Hey america, we have also have violent games and movies here in europe..also no mass shootings, see what the problem is here?
We do have mass shootings, in fact we have the worst mass shooting happened right here in Europe.

Mass shootings are not as frequent obviously, but they happen, even where guns are tightly regulated. Sometimes guns are acquired legally like Breivik 2011 mass shooting, and sometimes the guns are acquired illegally like the Paris 2015 mass shootings.
 

Nokterian

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,528
Euroland
We do have mass shootings, in fact we have the worst mass shooting happened right here in Europe.

Mass shootings are not as frequent obviously, but they happen, even where guns are tightly regulated. Sometimes guns are acquired legally like Breivik 2011 mass shooting, and sometimes the guns are acquired illegally like the Paris 2015 mass shootings.

Yes we have them also more not so frequent as equivalent to the US at all..
 

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,795
We have those games in the UK too. Guess how many school mass shootings the UK has had in the past twenty years.

This isn't rocket science.

It's the guns, stupid.

Yes, it is the guns and American gun culture. Any kid who gets interested in guns via their video games can go out and start to buy one on his 18th birthday, right after he purchases his first pack of cigarettes and porno mag. I'm not familiar with the UK gun laws, but I imagine it's not quite so simple to get yourself an AR if you are just interested in having one because... why not. That's how people are here. They buy one because it's cool and for no reason otherwise (unless you are killing wolves from eating your sheep on your farm?).

You know psych studies disprove the fact that games have affects. If it's about realism, movies have been violent for decades. Add to that the fact that games are played in every other country and mass shootings haven't gone nuts like in the states.

As I said above, it's the re-enforcement of gun culture by certain games (sure, violent movies can count too but a person spends less time watching a movie over and over than a game, especially games that are focus on customizing your personal firearm) which coupled with the ease of gun ownership in this country makes purchasing a firearm more attractive. The more intimately familiar people become with firearms, the less taboo talking and purchasing them becomes. In turn, the more people who are going to resist gun reform.

As far as studies go, I don't doubt that for 99.99% of people they don't have an effect on their behavior. But that .001% of people who do gt influenced has costly consequences. Does that mean these games shouldn't be sold? No, it means make it harder for people who are influenced by those games, especially young adults with brains which are still developing to get one. Along with anyone who exhibits any sort of mental illness.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
Let's assume bullying in my country is really horrible, perhaps even worse than in the United States. The outcome would still be zero casualties due to mass shootings. Trying to find any reason for the increase other than easy access to lethal weapons is a waste of effort. It's only the access to guns that matters.

It's the guns, stupid.

The guns have been around. Stay classy.
 

Fanatic

Member
Oct 30, 2017
580
Denmark
I'm not familiar with the UK gun laws, but I imagine it's not quite so simple to get yourself an AR if you are just interested to have one because... why not.
Well, first of all licenses for semi automatic center fire rifles are generally not issued in the UK.

If you wanted an AR-15 in the UK it'd be as a straight pull bolt action rifle.
You'd also need to go through a hunting license course where you have to pass both practical and theoretical exams.

Then you need to be cleared by your local police office and they come and inspect your house if you installed a gun safe.

Then after all that they will issue you the license and you can buy the gun.
 
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