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CNN: 19 of the 30 deadliest mass shootings have taken place in the last decade. What has changed?
- Thread starter Keasar
- Start date
AR-15 type rifles are one of the most popular weapons sold, and unlike Handguns which require the purchaser to be 21, rifles and other long guns can be bought by 18 year olds. So it shouldn't be surprising that the people who do shootings use the weapons that are readily available and popular in stores and with non-criminal gun owners.
Ban the AR 15 style weapons and leave shotguns and non "tacticool" weapons able to be purchased by 18 year olds and you'll see these shooters using shotguns or functionally equivalent semi-auto "hunting" rifles instead.
Social media revolution together with internet information age. People, especially in school can easily feel neglected and out of the social circle nowadays with all the pursuit of popularity, likes on fb/ig posts, snaps and all that crap. Two decades ago you didn't need so many approvals from society in so many forms, so although kids were still being picked on here and there I bet it wasn't as bad, statistically speaking.
Unfortunately, at a young age they're very sensitive and easily resort to doing all the wrong things especially if you combine it with poor education and low socio economic state.
Unfortunately, at a young age they're very sensitive and easily resort to doing all the wrong things especially if you combine it with poor education and low socio economic state.
I can't believe Americans are still saying it's about fame or Call of Duty or school security, or anything except guns. We have fame-obsessed idiots in my country, our schools look like schools, not armed citadels, and mental health problems abound. But we don't have abundant guns so we don't have mass shootings often (or at all, really).
Even our police wear nothing more than a light stab vest, handcuffs, a stick and a can of pepper spray. Some officers are issued with tasers. Specialist armed police units are on call but are not used unless a suspect is lethally armed, which is a rare event. Our police do sometimes die on duty but usually through motorcycle collisions, heart attacks and the like. Being killed by a suspect is much more rare.
It's painfully obvious that the problem of America is increasingly lax federal and state regulation of firearms and an uncontrolled gun industry using fear to sell guns and ammunition. You can buy an AR-15 in a supermarket quicker than I could do my week's groceries. That's why your kids are being shot dead in schools.
It's the guns, stupid.
Even our police wear nothing more than a light stab vest, handcuffs, a stick and a can of pepper spray. Some officers are issued with tasers. Specialist armed police units are on call but are not used unless a suspect is lethally armed, which is a rare event. Our police do sometimes die on duty but usually through motorcycle collisions, heart attacks and the like. Being killed by a suspect is much more rare.
It's painfully obvious that the problem of America is increasingly lax federal and state regulation of firearms and an uncontrolled gun industry using fear to sell guns and ammunition. You can buy an AR-15 in a supermarket quicker than I could do my week's groceries. That's why your kids are being shot dead in schools.
It's the guns, stupid.
AR15's are everywhere. Theyre the most produced rifle in the world currently outside of the AK. Theyre the most popular single rifle in the country. They show up in practically everything from military to police to sports to video games and movies. Theyre very popular so its hard to avoid them. They are also a rifle so like every other semi-auto rifle you only need to be 18 to purchase one. The "cool" factor may play a part, but its not like you cant do that with any other firearm. Hell the AR15 has wood accessories if you want it.
Targeting the Ar15 specifically doesnt make a whole lot of sense when AK's are just as available (same prices too) as are a host of other semi-auto rifles. If you go after one you might as well go after all semi autos. After that youd have to go after magazine limits since even shotguns now come in 24 shot varieties and can utilize boxed magazines for fast reloading. Of course thats assuming the gun nuts let anyone get that far.
America has always had guns. Its always had easy access to them. You could always walk into a gun store at the age of 18 and buy an AR. Nothing has changed as far as the killing power of them and the AR's look basically the same as they did 40 years ago. There used to be shooting clubs in schools (my dad was a member of one when he was 16). People would have a gun rack with a rifle in their truck while attending schools. This stuff never really happened prior to Columbine.
I might catch SOME flack for this. As a Canadian it's undoubtedly the gun access. You guys need to get rid of guns. Everyone (else) knows this. But I also think it's a terrible combination of that + the rise of depression. I think the advent of social media and lots of other various societal pressures that never let up have sky rocketed depression and other mental health issues. I don't know why anyone would shoot up a school or elsewhere unless they suffered from some form of depression.
One you simply can't get rid of easily with legislation. The other you can. Sooooo yeah.
One you simply can't get rid of easily with legislation. The other you can. Sooooo yeah.
Are school shootings being committed by young white men specifically?
Without knowing whether mass shootings are more prevalent it is hard to know whether mass shootings have just become more deadly or if it's an increase in shootings that results in a percentage being deadly. Its possible that shooters have started planning for higher body counts, that kid who was stopped by his grandmother points to this. The 'scoreboard' mentality has been expressed by several perpetrators recently and the media definitely play into this with their 'deadliest mass shooting' headlines, and I am pretty sure I have seen literal mass shooting 'scoreboards' in the media.
The easy answer here is society has changed, not guns. Most modern gun platforms were designed in the 70s/80s, some dating back nearly 100 years ago. Guns have been around for hundreds of years, including the last 5 decades. The sharp incline in school shootings is a symptom of social construct radically changing. Metal health issues with teens, depression, family structure all play a major role in why these shootings occur. Trying to blame "guns" for why these stats have spiked is a shallow argument. That said, I absolutely think better gun regulation is required, and I say this as a gun owner.
Why are kids willing to die trying to kill as many of their classmates is the better question.
Why are kids willing to die trying to kill as many of their classmates is the better question.
I don't know if there's one particular reason but I am shocked at how little some younger people value life. That video from a few months back where three kids just watched a guy drown while calling him names and didn't get help was quite eye-opening.
YouTube and the internet. It's easier to access crazy ideas and think you'll be immortalized if you do something stupid.
What are you trying to argue? That the abundance of guns didn't lead to quite as many mass shootings as before? That's beside the point. Those killings would be impossible without guns.
Or do you want to argue that there existed a time when America had high gun ownership but not commensurately high gun homicide rates? Well, do feel free to make that point. I can't remember a day in my very long life when we looked at America and didn't see a frightening gun homicide rate.
Its gotta be access to the internet
Parents dont know whats out there. Kids are raised on an unfiltered access to everything. It fosters loneliness and strengthens hate. But what do I know, I guess
Parents dont know whats out there. Kids are raised on an unfiltered access to everything. It fosters loneliness and strengthens hate. But what do I know, I guess
Lapse of the AWB, "creativity" of gun manufacturers to not quite make automatic guns, the cycle of pouring money into promoting guns/shooting/gun sales go up. White supremacy dispersed on the internet near levels of ISIS outreach. The mass shooting becoming a "meme" that infects the minds of susceptible kids.
Nope. It did actually decrease gun violence. When it expired you could see the numbers going up immediately
Toxic masculinity is a huge culprit and it's going to get worse. Women are primed to seize more influence and power in the coming years and it's going to be harder and harder for low achieving men to make their way in the world. We're getting academically dominated by women, and as a result women are less and less willing to settle for mediocrity. Men that are getting left behind are prime targets for radicalization. The alt-right ascendancy is a direct result of this trend. There will be many more violent outbursts until we as a culture come to terms with toxic masculinity.
That is thankfully not anywhere near normal behavior, in fact in my civilian life I've never met anyone I would suspect of being capable of doing that.
True. It's not widely appreciated in America for reasons that elude me, but making it harder to obtain certain kinds of weapon reduces the homicide rate by reducing the incidence of crimes involving those weapons.
I suppose that "More guns less crime" propaganda was very effective.
So you're saying that after the Assault Weapons Ban ended more people were getting killed with assault weapons? And you happen to have a source for this yes?
Slippery slope doesn't really bare out here. We had a rise of violence in the 80s with Striker and Street Sweeper semi auto shotguns. In response in 94 the Federal government placed additional scrutiny on them through reclassification and very quickly turned the tide with the crimes they were involved with. You can still buy semi-auto shotguns today.
Same principle with the AR-15 like most protective regulation is placing additional scrutiny on them since they are the preferred weapon of mass murder.
Radicalization of young angry men, who've found communities of other young angry men to feed their anger without concern for the impact. In real life, very few folks tell someone to their face to go ahead and shoot up a school, because they have a reasonable fear of getting caught up in it. On the internet, the distance and anonymity create a space in which young men cheer each other on to atrocities.
It's never one thing and I wouldn't discount video games, the news or the internet. Other places have those as well though and there isn't an obvious run of similar events.
The AR15 is popular for a reason - it's really good for killing multiple people even if the shooter isn't highly skilled. I think even the shift in gun culture to this sort of weapon might be a contributing factor.
The AR15 is popular for a reason - it's really good for killing multiple people even if the shooter isn't highly skilled. I think even the shift in gun culture to this sort of weapon might be a contributing factor.
It's a social phenomenon, i would say. And just more people trying and learning from each other means that you'll see deadlier events.
It's the same reason serial killers have largely gone away from their heyday between the 60s and early 90s. Being a serial killer was a way for a truly disturbed person to make their mark on the world, but something in the psychology of sociopathy shifted, and now the thing to do to express your hatred for humanity is to get a gun or three and go to a public place.
It's the same reason serial killers have largely gone away from their heyday between the 60s and early 90s. Being a serial killer was a way for a truly disturbed person to make their mark on the world, but something in the psychology of sociopathy shifted, and now the thing to do to express your hatred for humanity is to get a gun or three and go to a public place.
I think consumable media is only an additive to the problem we're having. For instance, a couple of years ago they shut down local mental care facilities because I guess they ran out of funding. Suddenly there were 10 fold more people on street corners and crime went up. Luckily we have heavier gun regulations here in California (we just implemented background checks for ammo) but it only helps so much.
We have too many issues in our country that aren't going to be addressed because ironically one of the issues is corruption in the government. So... I'm not sure there's anything (sane) people can do as a society to put a stop to all of this. I think we're just going to have to let it fester and eventually pop.
We have too many issues in our country that aren't going to be addressed because ironically one of the issues is corruption in the government. So... I'm not sure there's anything (sane) people can do as a society to put a stop to all of this. I think we're just going to have to let it fester and eventually pop.
But if you think about it, it really shouldn't be. Violent crime drops year after year. Why is this one on such a rise?
As harsh as this is going to sound, these numbers are statistically insignificant in a nation with a population of +325 million people.
Is the hip thing to do. It's so easy to do it too. That's why they do it.
Schools are now increasing security. There were many false threats yesterday in central Florida, including my daughter's school and my nieces.
This trend will continue till they amend the law.
Yeah, you might as well blame the company behind Kool-aid for the deaths of all those people that drunk a cup of it, after Jim Jones had his gun man spike it.
The difference is access to guns hasn't become more widespread in the last decade whereas this violence has. It's obviously important context, but basic historical reasoning shows it cannot be causative in what has changed.
Personally I think it's a mix of a society that is increasingly alienating young men and the very history of the shooting itself. As more of them are committed it becomes solidified increasingly as something that can be done with specific social meanings.
How long has the NRA's modern propaganda campaign scaremongering every liberal politician as likely to take away your guns been going on now? That's had "positive" impact on gun sales during Democratic administrations for how long now? They've had the republicans willfully complicit for at least a decade or two in whipping up fear of a gunless society and successfully pushing back on any sort of common sense gun control/safety regulations to the point that we've even rolled some laws back. On top of that there's Dist. of Columbia v Heller that basically just cemented the modern interpretation of the 2nd Amendment as the right to bear arms to protect yourself from whatever.
Modern gun proponents have been pushing a very cynical and self-centered defense of gun ownership that displays a callous disregard for the loss of innocent life for awhile now. They're happily targeting the more credulous, the more paranoid, the more irrationally fearful/downtrodden/disassociated. I can certainly see how that could have a building impact over time.
Modern gun proponents have been pushing a very cynical and self-centered defense of gun ownership that displays a callous disregard for the loss of innocent life for awhile now. They're happily targeting the more credulous, the more paranoid, the more irrationally fearful/downtrodden/disassociated. I can certainly see how that could have a building impact over time.
You don't need to even say that. Just look at countries where efficient killing machines are difficult or expensive to obtain. Reducing the supply of the weapon can effectively eliminate the problem. This isn't an obscure argument, it's the whole basis of my country's successful efforts to keep the homicide rate low.
Yup, never really happened before Columbine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States
Look up the amount of people killed by handguns vs. rifles.
The amount of people killed by rifles are statistically irrelevant, especially because simply banning assault weapons is not going to make the crazy people go away. Then they buy handguns instead, or already do. Look at Virginia Tech, was committed with pistols.
What you want can't be done when the 2nd Amendment is a reality.
Gerrymandering Adams is an amazing name.
What you're saying is that if it's not enough people whose lives are being saved then it isn't worth it?
In the real world this is how things are most often measured yes.
