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CNN: 19 of the 30 deadliest mass shootings have taken place in the last decade. What has changed?
- Thread starter Keasar
- Start date
I'll see Euro style gun regulation before I believe it.
Even if it's legally possible it's not possible politically.
If you ban handguns you start taking away defensive means of the common man. Handguns make up the vast majority of defensive gun purchases.
I'm not specifically talking about banning guns. That's not the only thing gun-control can be. The government, if it really wanted to could implement stronger background checks, place a limit on magazine types, extend the waiting period, etc.
If the government can add even a bit of resistance to the gun buying process, you could save a lot of lives, because then it goes from an impulse buy to a more thought out/involved decision.
Banning handguns as in Britain would be impossible, certainly. In an earlier post I enumerated some reasonable measures that would be constitutional. I think the term for your position is "throwing the baby out with the bath water."
No one needs to die. We need about ten people friendlier to gun control to get elected to the senate, and we need the house and the executive branch.
The assault rifle ban the senate put forwards in 2013 got something like 54 votes I think. It'll happen eventually, but it pains me that we have to wait until politics lines up just so, to see something that has the support of 80+ percent of Americans enacted.
Edit: My bad, I'm getting the legislation twisted. Expanding back ground checks got 54 or so votes. The assault rifle ban floated by Nancy Pelosi got around 40.
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The legislation would, obviously, include a test to define whether or not a gun was legal. The previous assault rifle ban required two key characteristics. The one Pelosi put forwards in 2013 required one.
No ban is going to exclusively target the AR-15. But that, and anything equally or more suitable to killing a lot of people in short period of time, are what those of us who want to see the AR-15 banned want.
It's a bit dull always having to spell that out for people, but there you go.
The problem isn't you disputing the numbers, it's you calling for sources then dismissing them when they are provided. You clearly didn't care about the sources in the first place, so why bother asking for them.
Also are you going to edify me on the 2nd amendment?
The ban was fine when it was implemented but we never followed up to respond to gun makers skirting laws. That and it didn't give the ATF enough power to regulate gun manufacturing. To see how fucked up gun makers are, this is a "pistol"
I loled, Jesus Christ, only in the US.
You know why you think it's not possible and why nothing changes? Because of people like you.
Quit using the 2nd amendment as a shield, you look pathetic.
I don't know if you noticed, but I'm in support of people to bear arms without government intervention.
My theory is that social issues, and more specifically socioeconomic issues are to blame for this. But those will be hard to fix giving the fast track neoliberalism practiced in this country. So the most practical thing to do is to make guns as hard to get as possible. But I don't think this will happen because of politics and corruption. So this is basically going to keep happening. And I don't know when enough will be enough, especially after Sandy Hook.
What? can you show me a place that 'worships' school shooters? That sounds absurd.
No shit. And I don't know if you noticed, but you're part of the problem this country is currently afflicted with.
You selfishly prefer your own access to tools that only serve to kill over preventing the deaths of innocent people. Just be honest about it instead of hiding behind some piece of paper like a coward.
Not a school shooter but the first thing I thought of was r/incels referring to Elliott Rodgers as St. Elliott.
Social media, despite it being so open, it instead makes those at risk feel even more isolated.
"I'm not interested in discussion, I just wanted everyone to know I really like rifles."
Not really sure what you mean? It looks like we're discussing things plenty.
If what you're asking is if I'm willing to concede my personal beliefs? No I'm not, you're right about that.
Fanatic is your right to bear arms worth the thousands of people that die in the United States every year from guns?
Not many people are asking for the 2nd amendment to be abolished, as much as there to be more regulation in the gun industry. Which has none. The CDC is not even allowed to study it.
Not many people are asking for the 2nd amendment to be abolished, as much as there to be more regulation in the gun industry. Which has none. The CDC is not even allowed to study it.
Here's the formula:
Instant infamy + tons of easily available data to research/plan attacks + Fox News
Instant infamy + tons of easily available data to research/plan attacks + Fox News
The fact that the recent shooter was reported over 30 times to the police and FBI, got kicked out of his own school for bringing bullets and stuff, and that "cops were called to Cruz's home almost every other week" tells me that maybe we should figure out ways we can take away guns from people who seem to be clearly mentally distributed and stuff before we talk about banning guns.
https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/deputies-called-to-suspected-shooters-home-39-times-over-seven-years/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ip-parkland-school-shooter-suspect/345571002/
One of the researchers at 538 also did a deep dive into gun deaths and her conclusions on what would work and what is just political theater was pretty interesting
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html
https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/deputies-called-to-suspected-shooters-home-39-times-over-seven-years/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ip-parkland-school-shooter-suspect/345571002/
One of the researchers at 538 also did a deep dive into gun deaths and her conclusions on what would work and what is just political theater was pretty interesting
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html
One of my mom's friends posted a quote image of a student saying "God, why don't you prevent violence in our schools", and God answers, "I'm not allowed in schools."
I wanted to puke.
God couldn't stop him getting the gun before he entered the school either I guess. Man this God guy is useless.
We live in a society so driven by mimetics and social media that kids are eating fucking TidePods. Millions of people watch a guy laugh and point at a suicide in Japan, and we wonder why the outputs of our society are so fucked?
I'd argue the causes are a downward spiral in mental health exacerbated by social media/societal conditioning AND easier access to firearms by simple operation of technological advance in the markets.
I'm not sure there is an easy solution.
I'd argue the causes are a downward spiral in mental health exacerbated by social media/societal conditioning AND easier access to firearms by simple operation of technological advance in the markets.
I'm not sure there is an easy solution.
Certainly you are. The problem appears when you try to claim that your position is the only one consistent with the Second Amendment. The Supreme Court has stated outright that restrictions on gun ownership may be imposed by the government. I've enumerated a few that are within the bounds explicitly named by them. Hell, the very existence of the mandatory background check demonstrates how far away you are from the reality of Second Amendment jurisprudence.
To those who are determined to go to the hell of unrestricted firearms ownership, I suggest they buy their own boat and start rowing.
The fact that the VT shooter killed 33 people with handguns in 2007 just demonstrates that if the ar15 ceased to exist tommorrow (along with every other rifle once classified as an assault weapon under the AWB) a school shooter could kill just as many people without it.
People focusing on the type of weapon used I think are missing the point. Ive seen people here in the last several days go on rants and write essays about how no one needs this super-deadly rifle designed for the military to kill soldiers but in a school hallway or against people cowering in a corner of a classroom, in the hands of an untrained person, everything that makes the weapon suitable for the military is pretty much negated. At that point it can be any gun and be just as deadly.
Without looking up the profiles of all of these school shooters, I am going to make a guess that many of them were already known to be disturbed individuals to their friends, family, and even law enforcement in some cases. The most effective thing to keep guns out of their hands would be more effective background checks combined with a longer waiting period. Also prohibit large capacity magazines. Im not sure that will actually help, but at least it makes it harder.
And the only reason the ban became a joke was that is wasn't updated to counter manufacturers skirting it.
Ask her why did the Sutherland Springs and Charleston shootings happen.
"Could" != "would"
- If handguns were at least as effective as AR-15s, AR-15 wouldn't be so damn popular with mass shooters.
- VT shooter might very well have killed more people if he had an AR-15, rendering your point moot
- It very well might be the case that the easy access to "cool" guns like AR-15s contributes to increased gun culture, and perhaps even increases the likelihood of school shootings in general (maybe we'd have fewer mass shootings if guns were not considered cool because all you could buy were boring hunting rifles)
- Pistols are often harder to buy (Cruz isn't old enough to buy one), letting the assault weapon ban expire lowered the bar by offering additional alternatives
Your second proposal about large capacity magazines contradicts your earlier statements (the type of gun does make a difference) and supports my post (ban on high capacity magazines was part of the assault weapons ban)
And to be clear, I don't think the assault weapons ban solved all the problems with guns in america, hence me saying it "seems to be one contributing factor."
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Accessibility to the internet.
Full article in the link:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/mass-shootings-what-changed-trnd/index.html
Fix your shit.
Topic question solved.
Just want to point out how disingenuous and offbase this hypothetical is to supposedly render his "point moot".
The VT shooter may have killed less if he had an AR-15. Who knows what would have happened if he had what weapons. You have to use facts. Not hypotheticals. You completely made up a possibility to argue his point that does not actually exist while also claiming victory and rendering his point moot. Doesn't work that way.
We have good cable in my country, too. No mass shootings, though. Try again.
Either you misunderstood or you're trolling. First off, you seem to confuse "might very well have" with "would have" because telling me he may have killed less with an AR-15 is redundant.
He suggested that if the AR-15 ceased to exist, school shooters could kill just as many people. That's also a hypothetical, by the way -- his point wasn't based on facts like you seem to suggest. I provided a valid counter-hypothetical to demonstrate that the VT shooter killing a lot of people with a pistol doesn't disprove the idea that making it harder to access AR-15s could reduce mass shooting deaths.
It's the same bullshit argument gun nuts use to talk about knives. In 2016 there was a mass stabbing in Japan that left 19 dead. Cruz only killed 17 with his AR-15. Does that mean knives are more deadly than AR-15s? No, that's stupid.
Boggles the mind that he's actually trying to dunk on the Democrats here, while leaving the implication clearly hanging here that nothing is going to happen with a Republican controlled government either.
If the dude wanted to actually improve his polling numbers, here's a surefire way to do it. By all means, Repubs, show the Dems how it's done. For Once.
I really liked the parts where you talked around everyone and handwaved statistics.
Pretty much the definition of bad faith.
1. "It's not like we've gotten worse at doing background checks or waiting periods, so your proposed solution there doesn't even address the thread's question."
- well, our background checks are fucking garbage. the instacheck just goes through criminal records apparently. Buying a gun should require some sort of license, and some sort of investigation with your local law enforcement ought to be part of it.
2. Your second proposal about large capacity magazines contradicts your earlier statements (the type of gun does make a difference) and supports my post (ban on high capacity magazines was part of the assault weapons ban)
- large capacity magazines don't just exist for assault weapons. You can get a large capacity magazine for any gun provided it takes a magazine, and someone has made one. The large cap mag ban was the only part of the AWB that made sense. The rest of the AWB just defined Assault weapons as those having certain characteristics.
3. If handguns were at least as effective as AR-15s, AR-15 wouldn't be so damn popular with mass shooters.
- I somehow don't think mass shooters are conducting detailed research into which gun is more effective under certain circumstances.
Its a big ass feedback loop, not everything individually contributes directly to a shooting but one thing feeds into another amplifying one another.
-Easy access to weapons
-NRA strengthened politically
-Stress on the poor/working class as capitalism starts failing in the US and an actual middle class becomes more and more unsustainable, white families not used to economic hardships looking for scapegoats.
-Lack of accessible mental healthcare and treating mental health problems in males being stigmatized ("man up" attitudes)
-Increased access to news from an early age thanks to social media
-Radicalization of far right white Americans thanks to shitty predatory websites like Breitbart and how easy it is to spread that garbage through Facebook
-Easy access to weapons
-NRA strengthened politically
-Stress on the poor/working class as capitalism starts failing in the US and an actual middle class becomes more and more unsustainable, white families not used to economic hardships looking for scapegoats.
-Lack of accessible mental healthcare and treating mental health problems in males being stigmatized ("man up" attitudes)
-Increased access to news from an early age thanks to social media
-Radicalization of far right white Americans thanks to shitty predatory websites like Breitbart and how easy it is to spread that garbage through Facebook
How's your access to guns and what's the school bullying situation?
Conservative television as a brainwashing machine influences aggressive types to get gun happy. Fox News has only been around since early to mid 90s. I think that could be a big part of it.
Related?:
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e55235
"Why We're Underestimating American Collapse
The Strange New Pathologies of the World's First Rich Failed State"
A lot of the nothing actions that keep creating downward spirals come from some sort of national pathology of apathy towards its fellow peoples.
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e55235
"Why We're Underestimating American Collapse
The Strange New Pathologies of the World's First Rich Failed State"
A lot of the nothing actions that keep creating downward spirals come from some sort of national pathology of apathy towards its fellow peoples.
The assault weapon ban applied to all large capacity magazines, not just those that fit assault weapons.
The rest of the law made sense too, notwithstanding the loopholes, but gun nuts like to pretend ergonomic design features have no affect on functionality and misleadingly try to reduce gun lethality to things the kind of bullets it fires, as if soldiers wouldn't be disadvantaging themselves by bringing hunting rifles into close quarter combat situations. Stuff like pistol grips, foldable stocks, and detachable magazines aren't merely cosmetic differences -- each offer functional advantages when you're trying to kill other humans.
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Issues America continues to fuck up:
1. Gun control
2. Tackling climate change
3. Universal healthcare for her people
4. Inequality between rich and poor
5. A non-functioning partisan political system.
6. Pissing contest with North Korea
Rest assured, their mess will spread around the world.
1. Gun control
2. Tackling climate change
3. Universal healthcare for her people
4. Inequality between rich and poor
5. A non-functioning partisan political system.
6. Pissing contest with North Korea
Rest assured, their mess will spread around the world.
They're saying exactly that their hobby is worth the lives of thousands of people every year. That's what every gun owner is saying who doesnt support any further regulation.