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Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
My thought process is that there's probably some truth here. Bernie likely argued that a woman in this environment would face more challenges than a man would. Since this happened in 2018, we already saw what it looks like when a woman runs for office. I don't think he full on said "women can't win".

And Warren will likely say that's what it was about at the debate.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,126
I disagree with any renouncement of "identity politics," because all American politics are identity politics. Including those surrounding "economic" issues, because that's just a nice bow people wrap around things like "I don't want lazy undeserving black people to get welfare/health benefits/etc."

I agree with AOC on a lot of things, but not this term, because it's used to try to focus on pulling away from an explicit focus on the welfare of women and minorities.

Not from a leftist perspective. Leftists seek to liberate all of those stratified under class society, including women, POC, LGBT, the disabled, etc. It's less "let's ignore diversity," and more "let's tackle the economic issues that keep the marginalized oppressed instead of putting a diverse face on capitalism." Leftists recognize the social inequalities the marginalized have and seek to reform the economic systems that exacerbate them, as well as the history of colonialism and imperialism that causes the third world to suffer. That is the issue AOC and people like her are tackling.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,469
I don't know if they could win much by saying anything

confirms: will be acused of desperation, maybe even losing voters
denies: will be attacked for a lack of spine

It's not hard, you say either say "It's true, Bernie said it and here is the exact quote" and let people judge that quote or you say "My staffers misinterpreted frustration I had after the 2018 meeting and should not have leaked this false information, I have let them go."
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
It's not about winning anything, it's about setting the record straight.
It's not hard, you say either say "It's true, Bernie said it and here is the exact quote" and let people judge that quote or you say "My staffers misinterpreted frustration I had after the 2018 meeting and should not have leaked this false information, I have let them go."

You don't think there are political gains in the election at stake? I mean sure you can find a way to tackle the issue minimizing risks, but even if they are in the same party, they are still adversaries
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,322
I think the issue is people seem to think I'm reading up on a bunch of political literature in my free time and I'm specifically ignoring leftist readings.

When in reality I read political articles, scientific studies and summations and avoid academic political literature entirely lol
It sounds like you are deliberately avoiding it though, just not to the extent that if you received a Hobsbawm book as a gift you'd burn it before reading it. There are plenty of books you could read if you don't want to trawl sci-hub. But I'll be the first to admit that much of it isn't exactly easy reading.

That said, perhaps a bit of humbleness/curiosity when confronted with ideas/terms you aren't familiar with due to your political reading coming primarily from a limited perspective? Instead of saying "lol what is this" and comparing a mammoth quantity of work across many disciplines to religious texts.
I think you're under the assumption I've never read a single piece of literature or reading on leftist economics? I was under the assumption you were asking me to read like, something that is basically equivalent to Capital.
This sounds kind of inconsistent. But my guess is that the leftist economics you're referring to isn't the same thing as the critical political economy sphagnum was referring to. But if it's philosophy/theory specifically that you're not interested in, there's plenty of classic works with a more economic focus: Keynes, Robinson, Kalecki, Veblen, Polanyi, Minsky, Marx
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,126
It's not hard, you say either say "It's true, Bernie said it and here is the exact quote" and let people judge that quote or you say "My staffers misinterpreted frustration I had after the 2018 meeting and should not have leaked this false information, I have let them go."

This is the smart play and 100% what needs to happen. I'm starting to feel like this will backfire on her campaign if she stays quiet.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
Liz was doing so well for so long, I expected her campaign to be through the roof by now.. idk what's happened
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,425
The DNC boogie man is already being pulled out THIS early?


That's like, seriously showing your hand isn't it? Goddamn some of you need to get a fucking grip.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
Maybe that's why you think the modern Democratic party has been protecting black people when in reality it's been fucking them over.

5qghkYY.gif
 

woman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
Atlanta
You don't think there are political gains in the election at stake? I mean sure you can find a way to tackle the issue minimizing risks, but even if they are in the same party, they are still adversaries
I understand that, but this is an extremely serious accusation and we deserve to know if it's true or not from Warren herself.
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
So if I'm caught up here: more Warren-adjacent political operative-types are either lying or providing dubious and disingenuous information to the press in a final, desperate attempt to smear the Sanders campaign into the ground?
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Liz was doing so well for so long, I expected her campaign to be through the roof by now.. idk what's happened

Her support base is primarily white and affluent (somehow, a Bernie volunteer pointing this out is an attack by the way) and some of them got swayed by Pete Buttigieg once he started attacking her on healthcare. Warren started clarifying her healthcare plan, which made it sound less radical than Bernie's M4A. Bernie is the leftier option, so he pulled ahead with the progressive wing, plus his coalition is more diverse and has a stronger/more loyal base.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,469
You don't think there are political gains in the election at stake? I mean sure you can find a way to tackle the issue minimizing risks, but even if they are in the same party, they are still adversaries

Yeah I do, and this is a losing issue for her all around. Liz being dishonest and silent will hurt her more than making a statement...when it's coming from people in her camp, you can't just sit it out.
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,376
Yeah I do, and this is a losing issue for her all around. Liz being dishonest and silent will hurt her more than making a statement...when it's coming from people in her camp, you can't just sit it out.

Exactly. I have no idea why she isn't issuing a statement, unless she is remaining neutral to avoid negative fallout of some kind. Which would have bad connotations of its own.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
I understand that, but this is an extremely serious accusation and we deserve to know if it's true or not from Warren herself.

sure, but that's from our perspective. From their, there are more strategic thoughts to be had.

Yeah I do, and this is a losing issue for her all around. Liz being dishonest and silent will hurt her more than making a statement...when it's coming from people in her camp, you can't just sit it out.

In that, I agree.

Because of that, is why I say this is a difficult step to take for Warren. She can come off worse by any means
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
It sounds like you are deliberately avoiding it though, just not to the extent that if you received a Hobsbawm book as a gift you'd burn it before reading it. There are plenty of books you could read if you don't want to trawl sci-hub. But I'll be the first to admit that much of it isn't exactly easy reading.

That said, perhaps a bit of humbleness/curiosity when confronted with ideas/terms you aren't familiar with due to your political reading coming primarily from a limited perspective? Instead of saying "lol what is this" and comparing a mammoth quantity of work across many disciplines to religious texts.

This sounds kind of inconsistent. But my guess is that the leftist economics you're referring to isn't the same thing as the critical political economy sphagnum was referring to. But if it's philosophy/theory specifically that you're not interested in, there's plenty of classic works with a more economic focus: Keynes, Robinson, Kalecki, Veblen, Polanyi, Minsky, Marx

Yea, when I see something I go "lol what is this". This is really pretty annoying. I don't read academia, I'm already in school, I already have shit to do. I'm not spending my free time reading economic/political theory on... any type of spectrum, nor is it a pre-req to discuss anti-capitalist theory and views on contemporary political discourse. This entire conversation literally stemmed because of a phrase someone used which I was novel to me rofl.
 
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