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CNN: Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, Bernie denies(Update: NYT & Buzzfeed Confirming)

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Nov 21, 2017
867
Dollars to donuts, Bernie argued he’d have a better chance beating Trump because he was a man, and Warren argued she’d have a better chance as a woman. Bernie probably argued that Trump wouldn’t be able to stoke sexist attacks that may convince men away from Democrats. Warren probably argued that the idea of first woman president would rally women to her cause.

Then a high stress campaign and exaggeration has led us to this nonsense.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,434
I don’t disbelieve that Bernie could have said over a 2 hour conversation that a woman would lose in a general election after Hillary lost, and that would be shitty to tell Warren after pushing her to run in 16. But Warren doesn’t seem like she wants to tear down Bernie over it and wants to move on. I very much doubt she wanted this out there. It would have helped if she didn’t take 6 hours. Now everyone will be arguing over a conversation only two people heard.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,544
This is exactly the type of bullshit that intentionally leaving out the details lets useful idiots fill in their anti-Bernie imaginations on him being any type of bigot people have already concocted him to be.

We know Bernie tried to get Warren to run for President in '16. We know he's advocated a woman running for President publicly going back decades. He campaigned harder than Hillary did for her own campaign and she won the most votes. Warren and Sanders have been friends for years. This incident itself is alleged to have happened in a private dinner with Warren herself which is a hilariously bizarre place for Bernie to suddenly turn into Archie Bunker.

If you buy into this you're buying into some pissed off staffer leaking sensationalist garbage to corporate media who are drooling at the chance to have these two take themselves down in favor of someone more palatable to corporate interests. Seriously, everyone here should be smarter than this.
Ahh, useful idiots. Cool.

Some of you guys really need to get a grip, if you can't handle small shit like this then the primary is gonna make you go insane when actual opposition dumps happen.
 

splash wave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
664
Bay Area, CA
Every time I read her statement the more insane it sounds: "Bernie is a great friend and ally and I will *not* divulge what was discussed—however, we 'disagreed' that a woman can win. That's all I'll say, though! Cya!"
 

Snowy

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,119
Sanders is the same guy who called black voters "low information" aka dumb and condescendingly wagged his finger at Hilary at debates. Why should he get the benefit of the doubt over Warren in this situation?
Bernie wagging his finger at the debates is for liberals what Obama wearing a tan suit was for conservatives.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,798
Something that bothers me about this whole ordeal is that Bernie has been paraphrased as "disagreeing" with the assertion a women could or would not win the nomination. It frames Bernie's opinion in more of a sexist light, the implication being he personally doesn't think a woman has the ability to win. I think Bernie's thought process lies within the sexism of this country, and that comment is being misconstrued for a cheap political attack.
 

Theswweet

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,508
California
I think there's a difference in the nuance between "I think a woman would have trouble winning" and "there is no way that a woman could win", and Warren's response tells us nothing about where Sanders was coming from. That's why I think folks are asking for more context, not because they "want" her to be lying or anything, but this response basically tells us nothing about what actually happened.
 

Wracu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,269
If Warren wasn't planning on leaking this herself, and it was the work of a rogue staffer, I don't want to think about the kind of cabinet positions she would make if she was elected.
I mean, have you seen the trash Bernie surrounds himself with? How many hires/endorsements he's had to immediately retract? He's an entirely incompetent executive
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,582
Right, but it goes against the idea and character most people have of Bernie. As I said, Warren has made this into a "either you believe me or you believe him" thing. And people will draw a line on that. Either Sanders is a sexist liar or Warren is a manipulating liar.

Anyway, just prepare to vote for Joe Biden in November.
i don’t care what image people have of Warren, I care about what his character actually is. And he’s done enough to make me doubt him, let alone the fact that it’s a man’s word against a woman’s on sexism.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,573
The likely scenario is that the story about the volunteer script pissed off some Warren staffers and they went rogue.
Agreed. This leaking is not good for Warren - the idea that Warren deliberately leaked it is one where you need to be a Sanders partisan to believe it true- this is not a helpful narrative to have in the campaign because the last thing you want to do is push this concern to the forefront of voters' minds.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
936
Ahh, useful idiots. Cool.

Some of you guys really need to get a grip, if you can't handle small shit like this then the primary is gonna make you go insane when actual opposition dumps happen.
Look where these things come from. Look who desperately wants to keep it coming up. Look who benefits from it doing so. People are 100% being played here and it ain't me.
 

Googleplex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
441
Great, so she didn't explain any of the context and effectively doubled down. Now we get to have fun with He said She said bullshit. Thanks Warren. Thanks for trying to derail the left with your campaign's last gasp smear tactic. I've lost a lot of respect for her today.
Bernie says something fucked up and par for the course for him. Warren responses but doesn't attack him and you've lost respect for Warren?

Of course.....
 

Nif

Member
Oct 25, 2017
419
Believe women.

What you want to do with that information is up to you. I don't think it disqualifies Sanders. All of you getting heated and blaming Warren for this are looking real bad.
 

Exellus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,413
Something that bothers me about this whole ordeal is that Bernie has been paraphrased as "disagreeing" with the assertion a women could or would not win the nomination. It frames Bernie's opinion in more of a sexist light, the implication being he personally doesn't think a woman has the ability to win. I think Bernie's thought process lies within the sexism of this country, and that comment is being misconstrued for a cheap political attack.
I also think certain groups are dying to smear this man as a racist, sexist, bigot, no matter reality.
 

Akim

Member
Oct 27, 2017
126
These are the kinds of "scandals" that libs waste their time on while the GOP is bullying them all fucking day. Either way, this wouldn't change my support of Sanders because his policy positions are better than every other candidate for vulnerable peoples.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,670
I’m not the biggest fan of Bernie but I highly, highly doubt he said this.
Its extremely likely that he merely mentioned how Trump would attack a woman. If you look at how the NYT is confirming it. It reeks of someone throwing their interpretation on top of his words.

I want Warren to win more than anything and Im not fan of Bernies, but this is so obviously bullshit that Im a little sad that this forum entertained it for 12 pages. Lets leave the obvious bullshit to TheDonald pls.
 

dots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,652
Great, so she didn't explain any of the context and effectively doubled down. Now we get to have fun with He said She said bullshit. Thanks Warren. Thanks for trying to derail the left with your campaign's last gasp smear tactic. I've lost a lot of respect for her today.
Literally nothing she could have said other than "I'm dropping out please vote for Bernie" would have made you happy, would it?

"Derail the left?" Come on.
 

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,371
...So we're just not getting any context for what exactly he actually said....oh boy.

My guess is staffers desperately threw that out there so the media could eat it up and of course Warren isnt going to elaborate further on private conversations....

People are just going to move to their corners without any further info. Sounds like a slow news day to me
Yeah, no more context probably means most voters should just let it go.

I have my own new theory that Bernie might’ve said it around not trusting the public in electing a woman, Warren not being happy since it might imply that she couldn’t convince people and telling close staffers but ultimately letting it go, those staffers not letting it go and eventually leaking it. Leaving Warren not able to deny it since multiple people could confirm, maybe even people still integral to her campaign. But providing more context and giving a statement that could conceivably go against a large number of voters (like Romney’s 47%, maybe more like Obama’s gun and religion) doesn’t do anyone on the Democratic side any favors. Particularly if Warren knows she might turn her support to Bernie in the future, or want his support in the future. Which leads me back to letting it go without any more context.
 

Figgles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,498
These are the kinds of "scandals" that libs waste their time on while the GOP is bullying them all fucking day. Either way, this wouldn't change my support of Sanders because his policy positions are better than every other candidate for vulnerable peoples.
Seriously. Over a thousand replies on this nonsense.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,573
yes, it was taken from a slack conversation and was never an official campaign call script
No, that's what an anonymous rando on twitter said, so that people like you could pretend that was true. If that were true, the Sanders campaign almost certainly would have said that and kept that entire thing from being a thing. But they didn't when asked for comment on the story.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
And he is right, especially if we rely on the Midwest to win.

Warren happens to be the most aligned to my policy positions btw.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,544
People in this thread who wanted her to basically call the story false need to chill out. Acting pretend shocked an old man said a women can't win after Trump defeated the "impervious" Clinton isn't' a shock, at all. It's classic sexism, it's shit we've all heard (even in this fucking thread) for the last three years. Sanders has said stupid shit plenty of times, on record. Suddenly pretending he's immune to saying shit like this in private to a friend is just building an image in your head of a person who doesn't exist.

You have the response and context. The context was a simple question, "if we elect a women can she win?" Warren said yes, Sanders said no.

You're either going to have to call Warren a liar or call Sanders a liar. There isn't an in between on this. There is no "context" that makes that statement "ok".

Now, what's rich are the people coming out of their way to call it "slime ball". Like if Biden said this and Warren leaked it people would be up in arms? Cmon now.

And if you want context, the fact she talked to staffers about this dinner probably means the actual "context" people want isn't really that good either. Like, why would she tell staffers this specific thing happened if they were just talking about "oh you know the midwest are a bunch of sexist pigs I just don't know...". That makes little to no sense to me, so the actual "context" is in the simple fact this story was told to people.
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,288
You could just believe her, you know.
Why would I? She didn't even try to contextualize the comment and she's in a position where she could benefit from lying or misleading about it all together. If she weren't losing a political race against this guy I'd be more apt to believe it, but as it stands now it looks like a purposeful smear.

I'm still of the mind that he could have said something like that in an appropriate context of the conversation, but we got no clarity at all and she's insinuating that he straight up doesn't believe a woman can beat Trump. So... nah.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,639
"Context"

She said it happened.

First you ask for a statement, and then when she plainly says, "Yes, he said that, but I want to move on." You demand more context that may hopefully absolve your candidate of choice.

It's just a 'he said-she said' atm, and thats fine if that's the end of that. No need to make up some excuse, that Warren's response is somehow invalid.
 

The Kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
819
I don’t know how this affects Bernie but this definitely sinks Warren’s chances. Even if she gets the nom, she will have alienated the left and Trump will definitely use the attack on Bernie against her to further drive away the working class who was pro-Bernie.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,226
Staffer leaks least charitable version. Warren tacitly confirms it by confirming that some version of the exchange did happen.

... it's almost like something is being laundered
 

nazgul_hunter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,781
"Context"

She said it happened.

First you ask for a statement, and then when she plainly says, "Yes, he said that, but I want to move on." You demand more context that may hopefully absolve your candidate of choice.

It's just a 'he said-she said' atm, and thats fine if that's the end of that. No need to make up some excuse, that Warren's response is somehow invalid.
Meanwhile Bernie said it's a lie and it didn't happen... but you know.
 

neon/drifter

Member
Apr 3, 2018
1,445
Alright, she's responded. Riding the fence with that response. We know there is more context involved. He didn't just bluntly say that to her. Her and Bernie are FRIENDS, she seems to be playing buddy buddy with the "but we both have the same goals" thing but she's leaving that hot iron on the wound by just vaguely just saying "he said woman cant win"

CNN is grateful! Mmm, the ratings! It'll be so good to see the top two liberals at each others throats on tomorrows stage!

In the end, yes, they both have the same goals but, I'm an adult. I can judge and think for myself. I believe Bernie. Warren is a good politician but her campaign is weak and this is chess. This will be played up on stage tomorrow. :/
 
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