CNN: Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, Bernie denies(Update: NYT & Buzzfeed Confirming)

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phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,637
the most charitable assessment I have right now is that this whole thing smells and warren's statement certainly doesn't help quell the smell
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,912
To the people claiming Warren's story is "wishy-washy" can y'all read, or.....?

She directly says the story is true in the sentence:


If anything, she went OUT OF HER WAY to bury her confirmation of the story within a paragraph of text, and immediately follow it with, "can we just move on?"

She seems like she doesn't like the fact that this leaked, and was stuck in a really awkward position of lying to the public (which hurts her campaign), or hurting a friendship she fostered over the years (which could also hurt her campaign).

Anyone who thinks this leak came DIRECTLY from Warren is missing a few screws. This only hurts her and Bernie, with this depiction of infighting. This was likely leaked by a bitter Warren staffer, who doesn't like that Sanders is beating her in the polls. That staffer is an idiot, as this move only hurts them both.


Yup
Agreed 100%
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,645
Yes, that is a distinct possibility.

But someone has to be the monster in any disagreement, so.....
If that were true, then she had a chance to clarify it and reject the CNN story's framing on its face. She chose not to do that.

In fact, continuing to keep the exact nature of the comments vague serves exclusively to ensure this continues to be a thing for a while longer.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,273
Rochester, New York
But heres some perspective y'all. In the end, this is possibly something Warren and Bernie had a disagreement over long ago and decided to put it aside. Maybe this is a leak to get us to rip each other apart for no good fucking reason?

In the end, both Warren and Bernie are the best candidates on stage.

Bernie and Warren are political opponents vying for the same position. Of course they're going to go against each other.

There isn't some vast media conspiracy.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
949
It's extremely possible (and probably likely) that Warren both heard Bernie say he didn't think a women could beat Trump in 2020, and Bernie didn't actually say that.

Bernie probably expressed concerns about what a woman would face, Warren took that to mean a woman couldn't win, though he didn't mean to imply that.

I highly doubt either is lying.
This is almost certainly what actually happened but Warren is at least smart enough to realize dragging this into a huge thing absolutely doesn't help either of them and only plays into the media's long-standing desire to pit the two of them against each other, which she has adamantly refused to do because she knows it only benefits the right-wing of the party.
 

Exellus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,425
But the clear "context" is in the statement itself. He doesn't think a woman could win [the 2020 US presidential elections]. He didn't say a woman is inferior or anything. And she doesn't come close to imply that.

This seems very on brand for Bernie, a man with chronic foot-in-mouth syndrome. He spoke his mind candidly, about the chance of a woman in 2020 (which is definitely going to be harder in this current climate), and it probably irritated Warren.

She privately vented to her staffer, who, like a dumbass, leaked it to the press. I don't understand how people are struggling with this story at all.

Oh sorry. Thought you were trying to point something out to me, and not adding to my comment. My apologies.
I don't think he even "doesn't think a woman could win."

More like "it will be tougher for a woman to win". There's a big difference with those two statements.
 

JCizzle

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
2,770
My main takeaway from this:

IF this is true, why bring it up now?


You know why.
Every candidate has skeletons brought up during a campaign. I like the dude, but it sure seems like Bernie likes to attack other candidates, which is fine because it's a primary, but then his supporters complain when anything negative about him surfaces. His supporters are the one of the few things that really turn me off about his campaign. It's exhausting.
 

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
17,813
It's pointless to speculate my feelings on it without knowing the content and context of what he said. What he's said in the past in relation to women running for president and the fact that he tried to get Warren to run in 2016 makes me think that what he actually said wasn't rooted in sexism. But we'll see I suppose.
All I'm saying is nobody is perfect and our culture has fed us sexism for so long that we, as men, need to actively push back against the internalization of it every day. Much like white people need to do with racism or cis people need to do with transphobia or straight people need to do with homophobia. It's something that educational theory has focused on teaching kids for a bit, but it applies to all of us. I've seen people who would normally reject bigotry buy into a lowkey bigoted stereotype simply because it had been so internalized they didn't even realize that's what it was. Prejudice and bigotry are something we all need to push back against actively and constantly. The second you think you're free from all of that is the second you allow them to take hold in your mind.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,289
Disgusting of Sanders to have said this, especially given his spotty history. Makes me surprised he bothered to retract the Cenk endorsement.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,210
Everyone: "I don't believe it but I'll wait for Warren to reply"

After Warren says it's what he said

"Ok I still don't believe it because it's not what Sanders said!"
I believe her. I also believe she didn't want this leaked.

When did the dinner happen, 2018? 2 years ago (more like 1 and so-months, days, hours, you get the point).

Did Bernie apologize afterwards? Did they put differences aside? I do think people are making a mountain outta a molehill here. One could say, "But Bernie denied it!" and I could say, "Well, he's old. Maybe he forgot it. Maybe it wasn't a conversation that worthwhile to him." Warren, herself, seems like she'd hoped that bit never got out. For all we know, the time between then and now, the two forged a greater friendship and understanding of what they are running for since then.

This isn't Biden pretending he didn't vote for the Iraq War when he was a BIG guy stanning for it, or Buttigeig shittin' over the black folk of South Bend or Harris horrible stances on crime (especially that within Black communities). This was a private conversation at dinner 2 years ago where Bernie said something stupid and Warren disagreed and that was the end of it (until someone dug up that grave). Hell, it wasn't even "handsy" Biden and his touchy-feely Roman hands and Russian fingers.

Whether you are for Warren or Bernie, this leak benefits neither. Moderate, Republican-Lites like Buttigeig and Biden are sitting and laughing it up.
 

Exellus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,425
Here's what I think was probably said:

"Winning won't be easy, and it will be even tougher for a woman."

That is a true statement, if you know how Americans vote.

What Liz apparently heard/got out of that:

"Winning won't be easy, and I doubt a woman could win."

BIG DIFFERENCE.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,706
I believe her. I also believe she didn't want this leaked.

When did the dinner happen, 2018? 2 years ago (more like 1 and so-months, days, hours, you get the point).

Did Bernie apologize afterwards? Did they put differences aside? I do think people are making a mountain outta a molehill here. One could say, "But Bernie denied it!" and I could say, "Well, he's old. Maybe he forgot it. Maybe it wasn't a conversation that worthwhile to him." Warren, herself, seems like she'd hoped that bit never got out. For all we know, the time between then and now, the two forged a greater friendship and understanding of what they are running for since then.

This isn't Biden pretending he didn't vote for the Iraq War when he was a BIG guy stanning for it, or Buttigeig shittin' over the black folk of South Bend or Harris horrible stances on crime (especially that within Black communities). This was a private conversation at dinner 2 years ago where Bernie said something stupid and Warren disagreed and that was the end of it (until someone dug up that grave). Hell, it wasn't even "handsy" Biden and his touchy-feely Roman hands and Russian fingers.

Whether you are for Warren or Bernie, this leak benefits neither. Moderate, Republican-Lites like Buttigeig and Biden are sitting and laughing it up.
Well considering Sanders outright denied this happened, I would say none of those things happened lol

Would be pretty shitty to deny it happened and have already apologized over it in private.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,318
Here's what I think was probably said:

"Winning won't be easy, and it will be even tougher for a woman."

That is a true statement, if you know how Americans vote.

What Liz apparently heard/got out of that:

"Winning won't be easy, and I doubt a woman could win."

BIG DIFFERENCE.
Bernie said that he said this:
What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,699
Nah brah. He's the best candidate and WILL be the best president in the history of our country.
He'll be the only President that gets nothing accomplished in Congress. Traditional Democrats will vote against most of his policies and Republicans will do it regardless. The guy has literally proposed $100 trillion in spending. Do some of those policies sound good? Sure. How the hell he pays for them is the biggest problem. If he thinks it'll be easy to raise $100 trillion from taxing the rich and corporations, well, good luck.
 

lmcfigs

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,422
Here's what I think was probably said:

"Winning won't be easy, and it will be even tougher for a woman."

That is a true statement, if you know how Americans vote.

What Liz apparently heard/got out of that:

"Winning won't be easy, and I doubt a woman could win."

BIG DIFFERENCE.
Doesn't seem like a good use of time to speculate on what happened when Bernie or Warren can do it.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
838
I believe Warren. I don’t think it would disqualify Bernie as a candidate in my eyes given his history. Hopefully it’s not that bad in context, but I’ll take Warren’s word regardless.
 

Vennt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
311
So now we've gone from complete denial and "made up by a rogue staffer" to parsing what he 'really meant'...

Uh-huh, so predictable.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,442
"Bernie and I disagreed that a woman could be elected president but I'm focused on working with my friend Bernie to defeat Trump..."

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GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,645
If she belives she heard one thing and Bernie believes he said another, what would there be for her to clarify?
Because characterization of politicians' comments about the difficulties female politicians face with "I said a woman can win and he disagreed" as to imply sexist intent in a presidential campaign context shouldn't be left up to pathos. It should be aired with clarity.

Otherwise it serves no purpose other than to implicitly waft a cloud of sexism accusations toward Sanders.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,706
Because characterization of politicians' comments about the difficulties female politicians face with "I said a woman can win and he disagreed" as to imply sexist intent in a presidential campaign context shouldn't be left up to pathos. It should be aired with clarity.

Otherwise it serves no purpose other than to implicitly waft a cloud of sexism accusations toward Sanders.
what if the comment was sexist and she is fine with that implication
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,652
I don't think he even "doesn't think a woman could win."

More like "it will be tougher for a woman to win". There's a big difference with those two statements.
Then it really comes down to what Matt said:
If she belives she heard one thing and Bernie believes he said another, what would there be for her to clarify?
^^^

She took his statement to mean that a woman couldn't win, and he meant "it would be much more difficult". She doesn't have to provide more context, because that's what she believes he said to her.

This is honestly a conversation that should have remained private, and hashed out between old friends.

It's really irritating that some staffer thought it was good idea to publicly throw them at each other. This only benefits Biden.
 
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