CNN: Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, Bernie denies(Update: NYT & Buzzfeed Confirming)

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Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,567
It's very big of her to remain friends with him up until now despite his sexism, but you know what? 2020. New year, new me, and I'm cutting out all my toxic relationships.
 

splash wave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
Bay Area, CA
Jesus fucking Christ
She's leaving it ambiguous as to whether or not her good friend Bernie is a sexist. Her phrasing is to give the impression that she isn't mudslinging when she actually is.

edit:

It's very big of her to remain friends with him up until now despite his sexism, but you know what? 2020. New year, new me, and I'm cutting out all my toxic relationships.
A better way of saying what I tried to imply.
 

digit_zero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
835
I definitely read that Warren statement as someone who was annoyed any of this was being talked about.

It's disappointing by Sanders, but man, I don't know why this should be as big a story as it is being elevated as.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,782
She didn’t want Americans to make an informed decision about a sexist?
Maybe she doesn’t feel it was a sexist statement, but a statement about the state of America.

Or maybe she didn’t feel it was appropriate to broadcast publicly a private comment made between friends.
 

neon/drifter

Member
Apr 3, 2018
1,674
Bernie and Warren are political opponents vying for the same position. Of course they're going to go against each other.

There isn't some vast media conspiracy.
nonononono

They're ideological allies. All the way up to this point, they have refused to attack each other on stage or in public. They are friends. But now, a leak! A leak possibly neither of them intended? And now... a divide. They have always had each others backs. They'll have to compare their differences eventually, but this? This isn't the same thing.

I don't want to debate. You said your piece, I said mine. I don't have the energy for much more. but have you read any https://www.reddit.com/r/bernieblindness/ ? Just like in 2016, the media does intentionally shun Bernie. There's data to show that.
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,527
All I'm saying is nobody is perfect and our culture has fed us sexism for so long that we, as men, need to actively push back against the internalization of it every day. Much like white people need to do with racism or cis people need to do with transphobia or straight people need to do with homophobia. It's something that educational theory has focused on teaching kids for a bit, but it applies to all of us. I've seen people who would normally reject bigotry buy into a lowkey bigoted stereotype simply because it had been so internalized they didn't even realize that's what it was. Prejudice and bigotry are something we all need to push back against actively and constantly. The second you think you're free from all of that is the second you allow them to take hold in your mind.
Yeah I agree with that. I'm certainly not saying that Bernie Sanders is perfect. None of us are. We all have our blindspots and it's up to us on a personal level to reach out and listen to others to gain more understanding. Not only that, but to be vigilant and continue the process. It's not enough to be the "Liberal who has all the right opinons and no longer self-reflects". It's our responsibility as humans to continue to evolve our understanding of each other.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,871
So he lied then. So, now, let's ask him why he is lying.
It’s entirely possible that both of them had different take aways and this was a communication issue. Both of them have a different story, it means that one of them could be lying, or that neither of them are from their own perspective.
 
Oct 28, 2017
899
I honestly think Warren is done now.

That statement is beyond pathetic. “I thought a woman could win, he disagreed”...were you talking about yourself and he thought he would be a better candidate? Did he say that he’s afraid sexism in key battleground states might be enough to swing them to Trump and we would be better off nominating a man? Why have you been his ally/friend since then if you think he’s a raging sexist? Why is he still your ally/friend if you’re continuing to insinuate he’s a raging sexist? Did your staffers go rogue and release this or was this a planned attack?

Give me what he actually said and not your “interpretation” of what he said Liz.
 
Oct 27, 2017
548
I mean I honestly think their both right: Warren confirms that some form of this exchange did happen while Bernie is saying that the more sexist read of it is a lie.
 

DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,916
Well considering Sanders outright denied this happened, I would say none of those things happened lol

Would be pretty shitty to deny it happened and have already apologized over it in private.
Has he denied it? My understanding is that his phrasing was very different to what he's being accused of.
That Trump and the Republicans will weaponise a womans gender and make their campaign for the presidency far more difficult?
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,402
I honestly think Warren is done now.

That statement is beyond pathetic. “I thought a woman could win, he disagreed”...were you talking about yourself and he thought he would be a better candidate? Did he say that he’s afraid sexism in key battleground states might be enough to swing them to Trump and we would be better off nominating a man? Why have you been his ally/friend since then if you think he’s a raging sexist? Why is he still your ally/friend if you’re continuing to insinuate he’s a raging sexist? Did your staffers go rogue and release this or was this a planned attack?

Give me what he actually said and not your “interpretation” of what he said Liz.
Why doesn't he come out with that he said instead of trying to avoid it? What is he trying to hide?
 

Exellus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,553
I'm going to boil this all down to a misunderstanding on what was meant during a private conversation. A sentiment that was believed but not felt.

And seeing the different parties that get excited about this is a real "mask off" kind of moment.

Bernie and Liz are a mile ahead of all other candidates, so this is all water under the bridge ultimately. One of the two of them will be our next president, I believe that.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,782
Then she probably should have said as much, because the way she said definitely implies that Bernie is himself sexist.
Or she doesn’t know, and is just sticking to the pure facts as she experienced them.

The point is, using this comment as evidence Bernie is a sexist is just as baseless as using this comment as evidence Warren is a liar.

This is less than nothing.
 

GiantBreadbug

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,745
Why doesn't he come out with that he said instead of trying to avoid it? What is he trying to hide?
Sanders issued a blistering denial to CNN, saying, “It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn’t win.” He added:
It’s sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren’t in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016.
???
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,771
A non statement by Warren that will only spark the flames. There’s no point in reading into that vague response I’m sure it’s going to come up in the CNN debate anyways.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,948
I honestly think Warren is done now.

That statement is beyond pathetic. “I thought a woman could win, he disagreed”...were you talking about yourself and he thought he would be a better candidate? Did he say that he’s afraid sexism in key battleground states might be enough to swing them to Trump and we would be better off nominating a man? Why have you been his ally/friend since then if you think he’s a raging sexist? Why is he still your ally/friend if you’re continuing to insinuate he’s a raging sexist? Did your staffers go rogue and release this or was this a planned attack?

Give me what he actually said and not your “interpretation” of what he said Liz.
This thread is gold.
 

Ionic

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,900
Maybe she doesn’t feel it was a sexist statement, but a statement about the state of America.

Or maybe she didn’t feel it was appropriate to broadcast publicly a private comment made between friends.
We've had news stories for the past 7 hours and a couple dozen posters here leading the insinuation that Sanders is sexist. If Warren does believe your first statement then just bluntly affirming the news stories and saying she will not discuss it anymore is a pretty bad way of indicating she doesn't believe Sanders is sexist.
 
Jun 20, 2019
1,142
Sanders said it himself in his statement: Why would he tell Warren that a woman can’t win the election at a private meeting where she is telling him she’s running for President? That’s obviously sexist as hell. So that’s the crux: is Bernie Sanders a raging sexist or not?
 

nazgul_hunter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,885
"What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could."

He already did.
Which sounds more like spin than what Warren put out. The crux of the matter is whether Bernie thought those weapons would work. Warren says he thinks they will... Bernie didn't mention his value judgment at all. He is either hiding it, or Warren lied about him making the judgment. That's why she called it punditry
 

neon/drifter

Member
Apr 3, 2018
1,674
Why doesn't he come out with that he said instead of trying to avoid it? What is he trying to hide?
I thought he did say what he said.

" It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said. "It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016. "

Does that not count?
 

Jarate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,342
Which sounds more like spin than what Warren put out. The crux of the matter is whether Bernie thought those weapons would work. Warren says he thinks they will... Bernie didn't mention his value judgment at all. He is either hiding it, or Warren lied about him making the judgment. That's why she called it punditry
I wasn't implying anything by posting that specific post, only that he did in fact say something about it, which is what I was refuting.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,958
I believe her. I also believe she didn't want this leaked.

When did the dinner happen, 2018? 2 years ago (more like 1 and so-months, days, hours, you get the point).

Did Bernie apologize afterwards? Did they put differences aside? I do think people are making a mountain outta a molehill here. One could say, "But Bernie denied it!" and I could say, "Well, he's old. Maybe he forgot it. Maybe it wasn't a conversation that worthwhile to him." Warren, herself, seems like she'd hoped that bit never got out. For all we know, the time between then and now, the two forged a greater friendship and understanding of what they are running for since then.

This isn't Biden pretending he didn't vote for the Iraq War when he was a BIG guy stanning for it, or Buttigeig shittin' over the black folk of South Bend or Harris horrible stances on crime (especially that within Black communities). This was a private conversation at dinner 2 years ago where Bernie said something stupid and Warren disagreed and that was the end of it (until someone dug up that grave). Hell, it wasn't even "handsy" Biden and his touchy-feely Roman hands and Russian fingers.

Whether you are for Warren or Bernie, this leak benefits neither. Moderate, Republican-Lites like Buttigeig and Biden are sitting and laughing it up.
This is pretty close to my assessment. My gut instinct is that Sanders was trying to (and failed to) convey that he feels that being a woman would be a disadvantage in the general and that it contributed to Clinton losing (and to be blunt, it did - it's shitty, but I can personally attest to some people not voting for her [or skipping] for sexist reasons, and winning to popular vote isn't enough if the votes aren't in the right states). He wasn't trying to make a judgement on her leadership abilities, just poorly worded his view. Warren talks a bit about the conversation with some advisors and perhaps she was at the time a little put off by it, but wants to keep it on the DL. Here we are later and some (or several) staffers are upset over Sanders' position in polling and trot this out in a misguided attempt to knock him down a peg. Sander's denies 'cause that's not how he recalls it, Warren confirms what was said from her perspective but also tries to move the conversation away from this and back to Trump.

Some of that is my trying to connect the dots but it all rings likely to me.

I'll add that I'm a Warren supporter (though I'd certainly support Sanders in a general and he'd be my second pick) and this whole thing doesn't really impact my perspective of either person. I do think some Warren staffers need to be heavily reprimanded or fired for this though. I'm sure someone will claim they would just be scapegoats and it was all some nefarious Warren plot, but there's nothing you could say or do to please those types.
 

nazgul_hunter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,885
I wasn't implying anything by posting that specific post, only that he did in fact say something about it, which is what I was refuting.
But he issued a non-denial. He also said it would be ludicrous to say that to her face... which it would be whether or not it was true that he said it.

It's more that she thinks Bernie believes American voters are sexist
This. That's the crux of the story and Bernie completely sidestepped it in both his denials.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
1,029
Which sounds more like spin than what Warren put out. The crux of the matter is whether Bernie thought those weapons would work. Warren says he thinks they will... Bernie didn't mention his value judgment at all. He is either hiding it, or Warren lied about him making the judgment. That's why she called it punditry
Why exactly is it a personal judgement on whether or not Bernie Sanders is a raging bigot whether he thought other people were and would respond to sexist political campaigning? I completely don't understand what point you think you're making by repeatedly saying this.

There were absolutely a ton of people in 2008 who had concerns Obama may not win because he's African American - hell, the latter half of Hillary's primary campaign was basically founded on this entire notion, which was racist as hell, but tons of people were legitimately concerned it would ruin his campaign. There was also an entire genre of post-2016 think-piece about how Hillary lost because of the nation's sexism. That doesn't mean that a person explicitly thinks women or other disadvantaged groups shouldn't run.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,782
We've had news stories for the past 7 hours and a couple dozen posters here leading the insinuation that Sanders is sexist. If Warren does believe your first statement then just bluntly affirming the news stories and saying she will not discuss it anymore is a pretty bad way of indicating she doesn't believe Sanders is sexist.
You are missing the point. I’m not suggesting one of my possibilities is the factual answer, I’m saying that this is just he said she said nonsense that can be influenced by a million different things and doesn’t really mean much anyway.

If this comment makes you think Bernie is a sexist, that’s silly. If it makes you think Warren is a lier, that’s silly too.

We have no context or evidence to gleam anything at all. It’s just more noise for the sake of noise.
 
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