(CNN) ICE to begin nationwide immigration raids Sunday

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,312
Toronto
Where are all the right-wing "First they came for the ___, but I did nothing" types who get outraged at anything that threatens their peaches?
 

MrSaturn99

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,022
I live in a giant bucket.
I guess so, how petty and it just seems so stupid.. Asshats.

Would this warning be a net benefit to the people targeted though? At least maybe they have time to get out of town or plan to be somewhere else this weekend?

ICE themselves even think talking about it is dumb. From the article:
Not only that, but consider the logistics involved. From The New Yorker:

Last Monday, when President Trump tweeted that his Administration would stage nationwide immigration raids the following week, with the goal of deporting “millions of illegal aliens,” agents at Immigration and Customs Enforcement were suddenly forced to scramble. The agency was not ready to carry out such a large operation. Preparations that would typically take field officers six to eight weeks were compressed into a few days, and, because of Trump’s tweet, the officers would be entering communities that now knew they were coming. “It was a dumb-shit political move that will only hurt the agents,” John Amaya, a former deputy chief of staff at ICE, told me. On Saturday, hours before the operation was supposed to start in ten major cities across the country, the President changed course, delaying it for another two weeks.

On Sunday, I spoke to an ICE officer about the week’s events. “Almost nobody was looking forward to this operation,” the officer said. “It was a boondoggle, a nightmare.” Even on the eve of the operation, many of the most important details remained unresolved. “This was a family op. So where are we going to put the families? There’s no room to detain them, so are we going to put them in hotels?” the officer said. On Friday, an answer came down from ICE leadership: the families would be placed in hotels while ICE figured out what to do with them. That, in turn, raised other questions. “So the families are in hotels, but who’s going to watch them?” the officer continued. “What happens if the person we arrest has a U.S.-citizen child? What do we do with the children? Do we need to get booster seats for the vans? Should we get the kids toys to play with?” Trump’s tweet broadcasting the operation had also created a safety issue for the officers involved. “No police agency goes out and says, ‘Tomorrow, between four and eight, we’re going to be in these neighborhoods,’ ” the officer said.
From the start, however, the plan faced resistance. The Secretary of D.H.S., Kirstjen Nielsen, argued that the arrests would be complicated to carry out, in part because American children would be involved. (Many were born in the U.S. to parents on the “target list.”) Resources were already limited, and an operation on this scale would divert attention from the border, where a humanitarian crisis was worsening by the day. The acting head of ICE, Ron Vitiello, a tough-minded former Border Patrol officer, shared Nielsen’s concerns. According to the Washington Post, these reservations weren’t “ethical” so much as logistical: executing such a vast operation would be extremely difficult, with multiple moving pieces, and the optics could be devastating. Four months later, Trump effectively fired them. Vitiello’s replacement at ICE, an official named Mark Morgan—who’s already been fired once by Trump and regained the President’s support after making a series of appearances on Fox News—subsequently announced that ICE would proceed with the operation.

Late last week, factions within the Administration clashed over what to do. The acting secretary of D.H.S., Kevin McAleenan, urged caution, claiming that the operation was a distraction and a waste of manpower. Among other things, a $4.5 billion funding bill to supply further humanitarian aid at the border has been held up because Democrats worried that the Administration would use the money for enforcement operations. McAleenan had been meeting with members of both parties on the Hill, and there appeared to be signs of progress, before the President announced the ICE crackdown. According to an Administration official, McAleenan argued that the operation would also threaten a string of recent gains made by the President. The Trump Administration had just secured a deal with the Mexican government to increase enforcement at the Guatemalan border, and it expanded a massive new program called Remain in Mexico, which has forced some ten thousand asylum seekers to wait indefinitely in northern Mexico. “Momentum was moving in the right direction,” the official said.
President Obama was never popular among ICE’s rank and file, but the detailed list of enforcement priorities he instituted, in 2014, which many in the agency initially resented as micromanagement, now seemed more sensible—and even preferable to the current state of affairs. The ICE officer said, “One person told me, ‘I never thought I’d say this, but I miss the Obama rules. We removed more people with the rules we had in place than with all this. It was much easier when we had the priorities. It was cleaner.’ ” Since the creation of ICE, in 2003, enforcement was premised on the idea that officers would primarily go after criminals for deportation; Trump, who views ICE as a political tool to showcase his toughness, has abandoned that framework entirely. “I don’t even know what we’re doing now,” the officer said. “A lot of us see the photos of the kids at the border, and we’re wondering, ‘What the hell is going on?’ ” The influx of Central American migrants, the officer noted, has been an issue for more than a decade now, spanning three Presidential administrations. “No one built up the infrastructure to handle this, and now people are suffering at the border for it. They keep saying they were caught flat footed. That’s a bald-faced fucking lie.”
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,128
"collateral" deportations. What what what?
They have a list of people they're going to look for, what they're saying here is that if there are other undocumented people on the scene, they can be taken into custody too.
But really, this is all legalistic garbage, what they want to do is to swarm a place with a lot of brown people and demand to see their papers.
The laws says you can't quite do it, but you just watch as our amazing legal system that protects the weakest among us is gonna find a way to justify something that is functionally not different.
Also, if you hide behind so legal language people are for some reason waaaaaaaaaaaay more okay with that shit.
But I never got Law and Order people.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,153
They're playing 4d chess you see, any moment now they're going to come and save the day.
Pelosi and co are wicked smaht.
Yeah no one is claiming this. The bottom line is they can't get Trump out of office with impeachment. I really don't understand what people here expect democrats to do. Do you all not understand how the government works?
 

Bliman

Member
Jan 21, 2019
1,361
Trump is going to back down at the last second just like he did two weeks ago.
I don't think so.
Look when Mueller will speak and look when they want to do these raids. He wants to drive the narrative.
I fully expect violence. He wants to swamp the media to lessen the impact of the hearing and at the same time give a signal to his base.
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,478
Clemson, SC
I hope the media covers this like crazy. (ugh)

If it happens, we need a flood of thousands of videos of a racist armed force rounding up immigrants and shipping them off.

These people probably have thousands of birthright American children too.

If you see something happening, record it!!!
 

Buddy1103

Member
Jan 8, 2019
244
i want to ask are people against sending back people that are here illegally or against groups like ICE or the border patrol agents? I'm curious because it seems like its the former and it kind of confuses me because its breaking the law. or maybe is it the way it's handled? I'm genuinely asking not looking for the type of snarky replies that might insinuate I'm a troll or something.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,969
Canada
Yeah no one is claiming this. The bottom line is they can't get Trump out of office with impeachment. I really don't understand what people here expect democrats to do. Do you all not understand how the government works?
If the government was working as it should, the Dems would be impeaching Trump.

The inability to remove Trump from office does not abdicate them from the necessity of impeaching him.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,213
All the people cheering this sure are going to be surprised when grocery prices go up and places can't find White workers to do jobs they would never want their own children to do. But yay, racism!

Get cameras out there Dems, record it all, crying children, and plaster that shit all over the airwaves in 2020. Yes I know that will just turn on the deplorables but the moderates might actually feel something. Possibly.
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,478
Clemson, SC
i want to ask are people against sending back people that are here illegally or against groups like ICE or the border patrol agents? I'm curious because it seems like its the former and it kind of confuses me because its breaking the law. or maybe is it the way it's handled? I'm genuinely asking not looking for the type of snarky replies that might insinuate I'm a troll or something.
We care about human beings. If you're going to "get them", build the facilities to help them find a better life. Don't charge them with crimes. Go through a process to help them become Americans. Love them, care for them, and hold their hand through the process.

Again, these are human beings. Those that are for the current way things are handled, if you believe in it, are going straight to hell.

Why do people that are for this, HATE (or at minimum don't care about) these people and not care that they're treated like trash instead of humans? A law saying they're criminals doesn't mean it's right. Women use to be not allowed to vote...that wasn't right. Black men and women couldn't enter the same building or drink the same water as a white man...that wasn't right. The way these immigrants are treated worse than REAL criminals is disgusting.

A law, order, or process can be WRONG...and evil in this case.

Does that answer work Buddy1103 ?
 
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thefit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,768
This is what they announced a couple weeks ago and got postponed, correct?

(Which itself was probably a deliberate mind game too)

Edit: yep


Got postponed so the Democrats could shoot them selves on the foot with the border funding bill they got played on by their own leadership. Nancy and Schumer allowed that bill as some kind of goodwill gesture to Trump and here we are with him laughing his ass off to their faces. Idiots is too nice a word here.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,153
If the government was working as it should, the Dems would be impeaching Trump.

The inability to remove Trump from office does not abdicate them from the necessity of impeaching him.
And it would change absolutely nothing. I'm wondering what power people think the democrats have that allow them to 'save the day' here. Citizens have to vote Trump out or give the democrats the Senate, until that happens the dems have few cards to play.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,128
i want to ask are people against sending back people that are here illegally or against groups like ICE or the border patrol agents? I'm curious because it seems like its the former and it kind of confuses me because its breaking the law. or maybe is it the way it's handled? I'm genuinely asking not looking for the type of snarky replies that might insinuate I'm a troll or something.
Big difference between ICE and border security.
I don't believe the US needs a force that goes around the country stopping people and asking them to show their papers, the US never really had that, and trust me, you really don't want to live in a country where you need to show your papers, even if you are a natural born citizen of that country.

Ask yourself this, right now, with what you have on you, can you prove you're an American citizen?
You want to try that at 5am when 10 people with guns shouting at you?

p.s.
if you're not worried about ICE stopping you and asking for your papers, you need to ask yourself why.
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
Toronto, Canada
Get cameras out there Dems, record it all, crying children, and plaster that shit all over the airwaves in 2020. Yes I know that will just turn on the deplorables but the moderates might actually feel something. Possibly.
Imagine thousands of families live streaming ICE rounding people up. I'd like to see the "moderates" excuse for turning their heads to ignore it.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,225
And it would change absolutely nothing. I'm wondering what power people think the democrats have that allow them to 'save the day' here. Citizens have to vote Trump out or give the democrats the Senate, until that happens the dems have few cards to play.
And because doing nothing, not even lifting a finger, not even pretending to care is totally going to convince people to go to the polls. Relying soley on Trump's reign of terror to win 2020 will backfire hard. You need to give them a reason to vote for you. And if the democrats can't spin "we stood up to Trump against every atrocity he did" to a positive then they're far weaker and don't belong in politics anymore.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,213
i want to ask are people against sending back people that are here illegally or against groups like ICE or the border patrol agents? I'm curious because it seems like its the former and it kind of confuses me because its breaking the law. or maybe is it the way it's handled? I'm genuinely asking not looking for the type of snarky replies that might insinuate I'm a troll or something.
How about the fact that it is being done by the Trump administration that already has a history of atrocities regarding immigration, and has shown time and time again that it has nothing to do with having illegals in this country and all to do with racism as they have to make up shit like immigrants are coming in hordes despite illegal immigration being down, or that immigrants are going to kill you, despite it being an extremely rare occurrence.

Or how about the mass deportation is not a good approach to taking care of the immigration problem. These people are a part of this country and this economy whether racists like it or not and if every single illegal immigrant was deported tomorrow the economy would take a spin. Or how about the fact that many of these people have lived in this country for decades and have family here, and it's inhumane and cruel to send them back at this point. But hey, cruelty is the point.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,213
Imagine thousands of families live streaming ICE rounding people up. I'd like to see the "moderates" excuse for turning their heads to ignore it.
"Oh I didn't see that. I don't pay attention to politics...

Oh what's that now? Trump is working on world peace?! Nobel Prize! Thank you Mr. President!"
 

Buddy1103

Member
Jan 8, 2019
244
Big difference between ICE and border security.
I don't believe the US needs a force that goes around the country stopping people and asking them to show their papers, the US never really had that, and trust me, you really don't want to live in a country where you need to show your papers, even if you are a natural born citizen of that country.

Ask yourself that, right now, with what you have on your person, can you prove you're an American citizen?
You want to try that at 5am when 10 people with guns shouting at you?

p.s.
if you're not worried about ICE stopping you and asking for your papers, you need to ask yourself why.
oh ok i get that. so it sounds like its mostly in how these situations are handled. it's pretty messed up. have had only 1 instance where i've been stopped and asked to show iD by undercover cops but i can see how having that happen continuously can be troublesome.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,969
Canada
And it would change absolutely nothing. I'm wondering what power people think the democrats have that allow them to 'save the day' here. Citizens have to vote Trump out or give the democrats the Senate, until that happens the dems have few cards to play.
It's not really so much about "saving the day," so much as doing their job. Removal from office is one potential outcome of impeachment. The fact that this is an unlikely outcome does not mean that they should not impeach.

Impeachment is a process. Impeachment will lead to investigations, evidence gathering, and the socialization that things are not normal.

Since being voted into office, the Dems have abdicated their responsibilities. They're letting Trump set the narrative and appearing weak as they constantly capitulate to him, or only offering up the lamest of tweeted rebukes. I think this will lead to a cooling effect with the next election.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,230
All the people cheering this sure are going to be surprised when grocery prices go up and places can't find White workers to do jobs they would never want their own children to do. But yay, racism!
Isn't it terrible that people need to be exploited for prices to be stable? I never understood when the left makes the pro-immigration argument from the right because if the immigrants get citizenship and have more opportunities in life other than being paid peanuts for back breaking jobs what you talk about is also going to happen,

The fear of there no longer being an underclass that can be readily exploited by unscrupulous businesses shouldn't be what drives leftists to be pro-immigration.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,128
oh ok i get that. so it sounds like its mostly in how these situations are handled. it's pretty messed up. have had only 1 instance where i've been stopped and asked to show iD by undercover cops but i can see how having that happen continuously can be troublesome.
But how else can they be handled?
You can either ask for papers or just round up brown people.
And mind you, it's kinda both, because they can shout all they want that they aren't racists, but most people don't carry passports with them, and if ICE really "don't see race" you'd have a lot of white people in custody calling their families asking if they can find their birth certificate.

Am I missing a third option here?
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,969
Canada
oh ok i get that. so it sounds like its mostly in how these situations are handled. it's pretty messed up. have had only 1 instance where i've been stopped and asked to show iD by undercover cops but i can see how having that happen continuously can be troublesome.
Repeatedly being treated like a second-class citizen and being asked to justify your continued existence in the country is a little more than "troublesome."
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,213
Isn't it terrible that people need to be exploited for prices to be stable? I never understood when the left makes the pro-immigration argument from the right because if the immigrants get citizenship and have more opportunities in life other than being paid peanuts for back breaking jobs what you talk about is also going to happen,

The fear of there no longer being an underclass that can be readily exploited by unscrupulous businesses shouldn't be what drives leftists to be pro-immigration.
Oh for sure. The system would have to adjust and people would find themselves questioning The Conservative viewpoints if all of a sudden there was no exploitation of immigrants, is the point. I'm not cheering on said exploitation. It's messed up. I'm just pointing out that one of the major factors of keeping the Conservative movement strong, cheap labor and doing jobs nobody wants to do for a few bucks, would be gone if Republicans actually went through with this. It's like they are shooting themselves in the foot but they can't help it because, racism.
 

Dirt McGirt

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,026
i want to ask are people against sending back people that are here illegally or against groups like ICE or the border patrol agents? I'm curious because it seems like its the former and it kind of confuses me because its breaking the law. or maybe is it the way it's handled? I'm genuinely asking not looking for the type of snarky replies that might insinuate I'm a troll or something.
Laws can sometimes suck. And people need to disobey bad laws.


This was law. There were Germans thinking everything is fine because there was a law for it. It’s why cruelty against minorities is possible. Because when the fascists come to power, cruel laws become the norm and people are ok with whatever happens because „the law is the law“.

Why deport a illegal if he does nothing wrong, especially if you are tearing families apart?
 

Buddy1103

Member
Jan 8, 2019
244
How about the fact that it is being done by the Trump administration that already has a history of atrocities regarding immigration, and has shown time and time again that it has nothing to do with having illegals in this country and all to do with racism as they have to make up shit like immigrants are coming in hordes despite illegal immigration being down, or that immigrants are going to kill you, despite it being an extremely rare occurrence.

Or how about the mass deportation is not a good approach to taking care of the immigration problem. These people are a part of this country and this economy whether racists like it or not and if every single illegal immigrant was deported tomorrow the economy would take a spin. Or how about the fact that many of these people have lived in this country for decades and have family here, and it's inhumane and cruel to send them back at this point. But hey, cruelty is the point.
yea i hate that these types of operations are being done under this specific administration because however bad it could be it'll be worse under trump. never thought about the fact that in 2019 multiple generations are born here and parents of legal children could be taken away. thanks for enlightening me on the subject.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
1,278
i want to ask are people against sending back people that are here illegally or against groups like ICE or the border patrol agents? I'm curious because it seems like its the former and it kind of confuses me because its breaking the law. or maybe is it the way it's handled? I'm genuinely asking not looking for the type of snarky replies that might insinuate I'm a troll or something.
Laws aren’t inherently moral. All the people targeted are human beings. We need to take care of them and give them a pathway to become a citizen, not that I care much about borders to begin with. The handling of the law is absolutely disgusting. Concentration camps have no place anywhere. I also have problems with the law itself.
 

Fuzzy

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
Toronto, Canada
But how else can they be handled?
You can either ask for papers or just round up brown people.
And mind you, it's kinda both, because they can shout all they want that they aren't racists, but most people don't carry passports with them, and if ICE really "don't see race" you'd have a lot of white people in custody calling their families asking if they can find their birth certificate.

Am I missing a third option here?
Yes, the same way people are arrested with a warrant signed by a judge. People living with someone like that aren't asked to prove they haven't broken the law or rounded up along with the person on the warrant.
 

Buddy1103

Member
Jan 8, 2019
244
Repeatedly being treated like a second-class citizen and being asked to justify your continued existence in the country is a little more than "troublesome."
yea i should have used a better word, i was trying to say that it is bad now and i hope it doesn't get worse because i know it can, specially under the current political climate and not just in the U.S.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,213
yea i hate that these types of operations are being done under this specific administration because however bad it could be it'll be worse under trump. never thought about the fact that in 2019 multiple generations are born here and parents of legal children could be taken away. thanks for enlightening me on the subject.
The thing is, there is a reason that the immigration problem hasn't been solved, and that's because there isn't a good solution, and mass deportation would hurt the Republicans. It's just that Trump is too stupid he doesn't actually understand why Conservatives actually do want cheap labor to stick around. If Trump thinks the minimum wage will ever be lowered so that Zach Smith is making $4 picking lettuce, he's insane, and Republicans like McConnell know this.

Hence it's typically a problem that Republicans grumble about and exploit, but neither party actually wants to deal with it.
 

TheMan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,598
crazy that some people here are advocating for violence. You understand that in a violent altercation the involved immigrants will get fucked, hard?
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,543
Only we're going to be the ones to remember this in about 2 weeks. Such is media today. No consequences to the Republicans.