(CNN) ICE to begin nationwide immigration raids Sunday

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,213
I disagree.
I think the issue is that people are really unclear with what they're trying to solve.
It is true that removing ten million people is difficult (not to mention inhuman) but that's assume that the solution to the problem is removing the people who are undocumented.
I personally think that giving them documents is a very simple solution, and one that was done in the past and caused really no issues.

We can talk about how to reduce the number of visa overstays (which is what this issue is mostly about), I think there's a lot that needs to be done there, but I first want to make sure I discuss it when we agree on the goals. Because fighting about the details of the seasonal worker program with a Republican who really just want less Mexicans is pointless, and further reframe the discussion about just how should we deport people, and not about whether we.
My point was though, there is no solution in the current political climate, with two parties conflicting eachother and not wanting to actually solve the problem. That and even after amnesty was given in the 80s, we still find ourselves in a very similar situation today.
 

ChippyTurtle

Member
Oct 13, 2018
635
My point was though, there is no solution in the current political climate, with two parties conflicting eachother and not wanting to actually solve the problem. That and even after amnesty was given in the 80s, we still find ourselves in a very similar situation today.
Republicans point to the amnesty as a reason for no more amnesty or being kind, and only endorse no pathway in order to assure no more amnesty like Reagan did.
 

Odrion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
556
I mean. This really cool and everything. There isnt a single person in our government that would do this.. except for maybe Trump himself. I really like it though a general strike should have happened ages ago.

I think our anger is misplaced. If we didnt want ICE raids maybe we shouldnt have elected Trump. Not every shitty thing Trump does falls on the feet of Democrats. Hes the president and he doesnt give a shit and noone in the house was ever going to make that different.
fucking lmao. what a corncob response.
 

Odrion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
556
also trying to gatekeep political dissent behind "you have to write a aaron sorkin fanfiction of what you would do instead" is a pretty fucking privileged move
 

Odrion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
556
like when you're trying to silence POCs' contempt for being sold out by their "allies" by demanding that they need to be as well versed in political history, debate, philosophy, and theater as you are because you have the time and privilege to make those things your hobby... reevaluate your values.
 
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Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,225
Let's say your favorite politician was speaker of the house.. What could they do to stop ICE raids?
Well, maybe use the power I had when the bill for these organizations was being processed to negotiate into law that ICE could not perform such raids. Or, perhaps constantly expose the horrid conditions of the camps to arouse public outcry. Or do everything the publicly inform those in danger on how to stop an ICE member from arresting you.

Here's the thing, AOC has done the last two while Nancy did not even try to do the former. If the goal is to unite to fight Trump, Nancy isn't doing a good job compared to the people she's accusing of not unifying to fight Trump.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,563
New York City
Well, maybe use the power I had when the bill for these organizations was being processed to negotiate into law that ICE could not perform such raids. Or, perhaps constantly expose the horrid conditions of the camps to arouse public outcry. Or do everything the publicly inform those in danger on how to stop an ICE member from arresting you.

Here's the thing, AOC has done the last two while Nancy did not even try to do the former. If the goal is to unite to fight Trump, Nancy isn't doing a good job compared to the people she's accusing of not unifying to fight Trump.
AOC doing what she did is what needs to be done for sure. But it isn't going to stop ice raids. Swaying public opinion won't stop it either it only serves to help win the next election which is what the entire focus should be on. Next week Trump and his admin will do something else horrific that no Democrat in the house would be able to stop either. Are we going to contort ourselves everytime to focus on the "failures" of Democrats while we continue to ignore the real problem.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,225
AOC doing what she did is what needs to be done for sure. But it isn't going to stop ice raids. Swaying public opinion won't stop it either it only serves to help win the next election which is what the entire focus should be on. Next week Trump and his admin will do something else horrific that no Democrat in the house would be able to stop either. Are we going to contort ourselves everytime to focus on the "failures" of Democrats while we continue to ignore the real problem.
I can focus both on Trump and the Democrats who enable him. And doing things to prevent something, even if it doesn't work, is far better optics for the election than "well I couldn't do anything to stop Trump so I didn't try, now please vote for me so I can stop Trump" And like, that's the thing, if your goal is "Get Trump out of office" then Pelosi is doing a far worse job of convincing others to vote by doing nothing. We unfortunately live in a place where saying "look at the horrible things Trump did" does not energize people to vote. If we rely solely on that, especially if it looks like the democrats are fine with it continuing by not doing anything, then we will lose 2020
 
Jan 3, 2018
981

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,213
Why would they say this?
They fantasized it would, but didn't actually think it would happen in reality. I have yet to meet a Trump supporter in real life that wasn't a racist. Specifically, they would not care less if every illegal in this country died at this moment. Not that they would admit it, bless their "Christian" hearts. And my family from the South is filled with them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,785

Major protests happening against ICE and Pelosi in San Fran
There needs to be more of these protests across the country.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,563
New York City
I can focus both on Trump and the Democrats who enable him. And doing things to prevent something, even if it doesn't work, is far better optics for the election than "well I couldn't do anything to stop Trump so I didn't try, now please vote for me so I can stop Trump" And like, that's the thing, if your goal is "Get Trump out of office" then Pelosi is doing a far worse job of convincing others to vote by doing nothing. We unfortunately live in a place where saying "look at the horrible things Trump did" does not energize people to vote. If we rely solely on that, especially if it looks like the democrats are fine with it continuing by not doing anything, then we will lose 2020
I agree with you when it comes to optics but to me that is a separate issue from people acting like everyday trump is in office is another day Democrats let him be there.. Bullshit.. This was sealed as soon as that mother fucker won. He ignores oversight because he can not because a moderate or a progressive runs the minority opposition. Why do we need to be inspired to do the right thing? We already know what that is. We could general strike and surround ice on our own. Is that what 2020 is going to be like. People knowing what the right thing to do is but not doing it cuz we aren't inspired? There has always been one solution and that has always been the 2020 election. I fault pelosi and joe biden for bringing down enthusiasm but the rest is a distraction.
 

Raonak

Member
Oct 29, 2017
774
What do they even hope to achieve with these raids??

such a waste of time and money for the sake of ...what? building up resentment?
 

dapperbandit

Member
Oct 30, 2017
603
I'll believe it when I see it. Last time this happened they said they'd get a million and only managed a couple of thousand
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
9,093
The New Orleans one was already cancelled because of the Hurricane.

This plan is from someone desperate for adulation, even if it means a percentage point bump in polling. The implementors actually want to do it though.
 

Boiled Goose

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,325
i want to ask are people against sending back people that are here illegally or against groups like ICE or the border patrol agents? I'm curious because it seems like its the former and it kind of confuses me because its breaking the law. or maybe is it the way it's handled? I'm genuinely asking not looking for the type of snarky replies that might insinuate I'm a troll or something.
Which people are they targeting and why?
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
643
What do they even hope to achieve with these raids??

such a waste of time and money for the sake of ...what? building up resentment?
The raids themselves don't really serve the purpose typically associated with such activities. Think of them as Trump's 2020 campaign ads. Which was why they were announced well in advance the way they were. They're a message to his base that says: "Look at me terrorizing the people that you hate and remember to vote for me in 2020." When his political opponent will inevitably accuse Trump of just sitting on his butt watching TV all year long, he'll point to actions like these to prove his accuser wrong. Count on these being recurring events whenever Trump feels his base could use some firing up and the weather's too rainy for a rally.