(CNN) ICE to begin nationwide immigration raids Sunday

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,256
i want to ask are people against sending back people that are here illegally or against groups like ICE or the border patrol agents? I'm curious because it seems like its the former and it kind of confuses me because its breaking the law. or maybe is it the way it's handled? I'm genuinely asking not looking for the type of snarky replies that might insinuate I'm a troll or something.
Sure, I'll explain to you why people think ICE needs to be abolished:

1. ICE is an additional law enforcement arm dedicated solely to address the crime of illegal immigration. That is their modus operandi, it is their main purpose. They sometimes assist other law enforcement groups with addressing other crimes, but that's not their main purpose and also their existence is not necessary to address those crimes.

2. Many people feel that simply crossing the border illegally is not a serious enough offense to require an entire law enforcement arm to hunt people down. That's why some Democrats are suggesting repealing the law that makes illegal immigration a criminal offense instead of a civil offense (it used to be a civil offense). The fact that it is now a criminal offense is what justifies the existence of ICE and allows for the detention we are seeing now.

3. The idea that ICE is necessary to target or apprehend immigrants with histories of violent crime is a fallacy. For one, they don't focus on those migrants (because those migrants are much harder to track down than law-abiding migrants who just want to live normal lives) and because ICE is set up to investigate one crime, and one crime only (illegal entry). The few migrants who HAVE committed violent crimes or DO commit violent crimes here are already going to be dealt with by the law enforcement organizations that are set up to investigate and handle those crimes (local police, FBI, etc.). If someone is CONVICTED of a crime then they are already in the system and we don't need ICE to find them and deport/imprison them because the traditional legal channels can take care of that.

4. Customs and Border Patrol is more necessary than ICE, which is why you don't see many calls to abolish CBP like you do with ICE. The problem with CBP is an institutional/systemic problem that affects most law enforcement agencies in this country, mainly that the culture of the agency breeds racism and cruelty and that the border agents are mostly uneducated and attracted to the position out of a desire to lord power over others. CBp needs serious reform, but you can't abolish the organization as you still need people doing that work.
 

djplaeskool

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,901

Sounds like there were some early efforts that started today that were ineffective due to a lack of judicial warrants (shocker, I know).
This is going to be a mess if it begins en masse tomorrow, but at least it looks like the information campaigns will have some positive impact.
 

Keasar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,381
Skövde, Sweden
WHat will you be doing?
Nothing I hope since ICE don't operate in Sweden, but I know I'd be pretty livid if I suddenly saw a bunch of vans roll up and start rounding up families that live the neighborhood.

Sounds like there were some early efforts that started today that were ineffective due to a lack of judicial warrants (shocker, I know).
This is going to be a mess if it begins en masse tomorrow, but at least it looks like the information campaigns will have some positive impact.
Glad to hear that people have taken the advice about the warrants.
 

CaptSpaulding

Member
Jul 13, 2019
171
I thought ICE has been doing deportation raids for decades? I mean I remember reading about ICE raids in the news all the time even before Trump. What is special about this particular raid? Is it like the biggest ever or something?
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,085
1.2- Ice is coming for you
3.4- Better lock your door
5.6- Get a lawyer quick
7.8- Better hide your kids
9.10- Never dream again.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,994
WHat will you be doing?
the people who say this are never in America for some reason.
'oh just rise up and outnumber and suppress the government authority, it's simple'...
because we've never thought of that.


(we should be able to actively shove an ICE agent to the ground if they ask us anything and we're citizens. Just take their ICE hats and set them on fire.)
 

skeptem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,166
It's odd his supporters don't call him out for all the bluster he makes. It's still an entirely despicable thing to do, but his goal is not to be as effective as possible. Just as loud as possible.
 

Camel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
909
Under Obama, ICE was at least officially directed to focus on noteworthy criminal activity.

Trump is using ICE as a purely political cudgel, and framing "ICE raid" as a scare tactic to threaten immigrant communities and cities friendly towards immigrants.
I know that. I was just wondering if it was his first time doing raids like this.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,083
Wisconsin
Are these the first raids under Trump? Or has this happened before?
This shit happens all the time. ICE is constantly doing workplace, school, and courthouse raids whenever they get tips about potential victims. They usually only do random stops along roads near the border, so bringing that strategy to cities is a little new, though I'm sure they've done it before just with less publicity. The only thing really different here is the publicity thing where they're announcing it beforehand to induce fear into minority communities and to energize the political right.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,573
Happy to see some in New York are not cooperating with ICE. Fuck em. ICE and TSA can suck my dick.
 

entremet

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
16,018
Well, maybe use the power I had when the bill for these organizations was being processed to negotiate into law that ICE could not perform such raids. Or, perhaps constantly expose the horrid conditions of the camps to arouse public outcry. Or do everything the publicly inform those in danger on how to stop an ICE member from arresting you.

Here's the thing, AOC has done the last two while Nancy did not even try to do the former. If the goal is to unite to fight Trump, Nancy isn't doing a good job compared to the people she's accusing of not unifying to fight Trump.
You need two houses and the executive to pass such bills. Do you think Mitch and Trump will even consider these bills? People are expecting way too much from the House here. They can't even get the AG to testify!

The sad fact is that what ICE is doing is legal. There's not much that can be done short term.

Trump campaigned on being an anti-immigrant zealot. This is what we got. Hopefully, it changes in 2020.
 

VectorPrime

Member
Apr 4, 2018
9,088
Hold up, why would anyone have to show their ID? Like under what context? For taking public transportation?
Pretty sure you don’t have to at all but most people don’t know that and will be intimidated by the authority with a badge and comply. Also they’re conditioned by decades of television Police procedurals that if you’ve got nothing to hide you’ve got nothing to fear and only guilty people need a lawyer.
 

WickedCobra03

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
Pretty sure you don’t have to at all but most people don’t know that and will be intimidated by the authority with a badge and comply. Also they’re conditioned by decades of television Police procedurals that if you’ve got nothing to hide you’ve got nothing to fear and only guilty people need a lawyer.
I don't think you would legally have to stop and show ID. It's just a strong arm tactic.
Oh, okay. I just didn’t know if I was completely missing something.
 
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VectorPrime

Member
Apr 4, 2018
9,088
Here in Belgium the cops can detain you for not carrying your ID.

Welcome to the future!
Police in the US do this shit all the time going back forever. ID checkpoints are a common thing all over the Southwest near the border as a way to try and identify illegal immigrants. You don’t have to comply but most people don’t know their rights so the checkpoints end up working. ICE will also board public busses and shit and ask for ID and things like that.
 

jcs

Member
Aug 7, 2018
1,865
I've a green card but somehow worried about today still (I'm in NYC). Can't imagine what it feels like to be undocumented. Hope everyone is safe, knows their rights, or is going to a place where they can be safe.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,531
London
Police in the US do this shit all the time going back forever. ID checkpoints are a common thing all over the Southwest near the border as a way to try and identify illegal immigrants. You don’t have to comply but most people don’t know their rights so the checkpoints end up working. ICE will also board public busses and shit and ask for ID and things like that.
We’re forced by law to carry ID at all times though.

They’re trying to get our fingerprints on them too. Assholes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,083
So on the Road to Nazi America Bingo card, how many do we have so far? Concentration Camps ✅ Papers Please ✅ White Supremacist Leader ✅ Gestapo round-ups ✅
 

The Struggler

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 3, 2019
739
Oh, okay. I just didn’t know if I was completely missing something.
Im canadian and while a cop can ask for my ID, if I have not committed a crime and they did not see anything they can ask for ID but you can refuse. All yiu have to say is am I being detained and since you did nothing wrong they will say no and you can walk away peacefully. However if they grab you keep your mouth shut and call a lawyer.
 

Seik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,195
Québec City
If there would be raids for 2K folks you'd expect people to get some very unflattering footage already in this age of everyone records everything unusual they see on the streets, unless it hasn't started yet.

Hopefully this was all bluff by Don Dumbass. This or most resisted ICE knocking at their doors.
 

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,425
Any reports of this actually happening? Looking at online news, I'm still just seeing reports citing the announcement but no actual incidents.
 

DiipuSurotu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,710
France
Any reports of this actually happening? Looking at online news, I'm still just seeing reports citing the announcement but no actual incidents.

Sounds like there were some early efforts that started today that were ineffective due to a lack of judicial warrants (shocker, I know).
This is going to be a mess if it begins en masse tomorrow, but at least it looks like the information campaigns will have some positive impact.