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Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Minneapolis
POC overwhelmingly rejected him in 2016. I don't think very modest wage gains are going to get them to break for a fucking white nationalist. White people and 70k votes in three states are why he won. He didn't win by a "wide margin." The electoral college, a tool to enshrine white supremacy, broke for him because of those three states.

When Trump is accused of racism - the wage increases and historic employment levels for POC will soften that accusation enough to win. It's not about winning POC or even white voters sympathetic to that struggle - they are already voting Democrat. It's about retaining the votes he had in 2016.

And I agree he didn't win by a wide margin, the electoral college screwed the Dems once again and allowed yet another monster to come to power. However, it is yet another depressing reason I predict Trump will win.

BTW - I pray to GOD I am wrong. This is crow I would enjoy eating all day long.
 

Lucifersam597

Permanently banned for usage of an alt-account.
Member
Jun 28, 2018
314
Does that really matter? He said he hadn't known about the payments until much more recently so he already lied about it. This is evidence he knew and approved that payments, the payment method is kind of a non issue, yeah?

Yea back in the real world, saying publicly you knew nothing about a sex scandal like this and then a tape coming out where you were talking about payments to squash said scandal right before an election while you were campaigning and you were married would have been your end.

All this hair splitting over cash vs check is pretty ridiculous and is the kind of thing that allows trump to always get away with this kind of stuff.

People should step back and take a bigger picture look as to what this tape confirms and remember not more than a few years ago this would have been a career ender for anyone in any type of office.
 
Last edited:

rambis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,790
I truly admire your confidence, but a win is hardly a lock. If unemployment remains low and wages keep rising (especially for POC) - Trump will win re-election by a wider margin than in 2016.
Wages are crawling while companies have spent alot of their money from the tax gains on corporate enrichment. This is far from what the tax bill promised and the tax bill is a loser thus far in polling.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
I heard this before. It didn't turn out well.

Betting odds have Trump as a huge favorite, which makes sense because we don't know the Dem candidate for 2020 yet. Saying that Trump will definitely lose without even knowing the Dem candidate is reckless.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2020/winner

Did you really just use completely meaningless betting odds about an election in two years in which we don't know for sure who any of the candidates will be? Lol.

I've noticed that it's really important for sone people that the perception remain that Trump will win. They feel it's crucial for everyone to be scared so they vote. It's incredibly condescending and it doesn't even work - good news motivates voters. But don't try to suggest anything is going well to those folks. The sky is always falling because it must always be falling. Lies, misrepresentation, and ignorance are acceptable tools to use to make it seem that way.
 

Am_I_Evil

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,842
Lol....curious what the FOX News talking point about this would be... Turned it on and most seems to be them complaining that Cohen is using a "Democratic operative" as his lawyer...calling Cohen's current lawyer "(Bill) Clinton's fixer"
 

Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016
Cohen made the mistake of thinking he was Donald's friend. He probably called him and said "My legal bills are going up, and you know I'm on the hook for stuff I did for you. " and he was like "who is this, again? I don't have time for unsolicited calls. Thank you."
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
Yo, what planet are you on where Melania gives any shits about who Trump bangs? Their marriage is a baby making contract, and for appearances. They haven't even slept in the same room in years. She's not some bastion of morality who won't stand for her husband cheating, she entered into a marriage contract with Donald fucking Trump. She's probably glad he goes after other women so he doesn't bother her with his little chick pea hiding in blonde steel wool.
But then... why go to such lengths to cover up the affairs? When Trump was single/recently divorced, he was bragging constantly about how much action he got. This is a total reversal.

These aren't rumors of abortions, rape or underage sex (though those all exist), this is consensual vanilla sex. There haven't been any embarrassing stories associated with the affairs either, so it must be about maintaining his marriage.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
He wants a deal or a pardon, that's the move here

Trump didn't do anything when he was toeing the line so this is the blowback
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,594
But Republican White Knight Jeff Flake says there's more important things to worry about.
 

Ouroboros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,012
United States
Think we can all assume Cohen might be angling for a pardon but a little bit of me wants to believe he's seen Trump throw many and I mean many people under the bus and he isn't going to succumb to it.

I guess we'll see.
He can't get a pardon. Something about the state of New York doing this investigation and not the feds...or something like that. I dunno. Too much of a whirlwind.

What I think is happening is Mueller paid Cohen a visit and basically laid out his options and gave him a hard dose or truthiness and Cohen shit his pants. Remember -- he has a wife and a child.

Edit : yeah here is the article. Even with a pardon, Cohen is not off the hook. He is looking for a deal with the law at this point. https://www.vox.com/2018/4/18/17252554/trump-cohen-new-york-state-laws
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
He can't get a pardon. Something about the state of New York doing this investigation and not the feds...or something like that. I dunno. Too much of a whirlwind.

What I think is happening is Mueller paid Cohen a visit and basically laid out his options and gave him a hard dose or truthiness and Cohen shit his pants. Remember -- he has a wife and a child.

It's a federal case so a pardon would be possible. It would remove any 5th amendment protection though so Trump's legal team might be weary.
 

Ouroboros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,012
United States

Deleted member 5359

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,326
It was weird hearing Trump speaking in his "real" voice rather than the TV pitchman act or the bumbling old man act.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
Jan 10, 2018
463
Yea back in the real world, saying publicly you knew nothing about a sex scandal like this and then a tape coming out where you were talking about payments to squash said scandal right before an election while you were campaigning and you were married would have been your end.

All this hair splitting over cash vs check is pretty ridiculous and is the kind of thing that allows trump to always get away with this kind of stuff.

People should step back and take a bigger picture look as to what this tape confirms and remember not more than a few years ago this would have been a career ender for anyone in any type of office.

It reminds me of the Hobbit where Bilbo tricks the trolls into arguing among themselves for so long that they turn to stone and he escapes unhurt. Dems fuck this kind of stuff up so often because of the bickering and infighting. All the ultra-sages and the super-wokes will savage eachother in purity contests while the right sticks together no matter what. Repubs stuck by a fucking pedophile and only just lost that election; dems would disown a candidate for making the slightest 'problematic' comment or mistake.
 

rambis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,790
He can't get a pardon. Something about the state of New York doing this investigation and not the feds...or something like that. I dunno. Too much of a whirlwind.

What I think is happening is Mueller paid Cohen a visit and basically laid out his options and gave him a hard dose or truthiness and Cohen shit his pants. Remember -- he has a wife and a child.

Edit : yeah here is the article. Even with a pardon, Cohen is not off the hook. He is looking for a deal with the law at this point. https://www.vox.com/2018/4/18/17252554/trump-cohen-new-york-state-laws
It all depends on how they lay out the charges. Everybody involved in these investigations seem mindful of pardons and double jeopardy so I wouldn't worry about that too much.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
New York law prevents charging someone with crimes for which they were pardoned for on the federal level. So if Trump pardons him he can't be charged for the same crimes by NY state.
NY is actually looking to change that law as we speak. http://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...legislation-to-prosecute-despite-presidential

here is the status of it right now.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2017/s8236

its in committee. so by the time cohen is charged etc. they could still bag him at a state level or trump himself lmao.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,583
But then... why go to such lengths to cover up the affairs? When Trump was single/recently divorced, he was bragging constantly about how much action he got. This is a total reversal.

These aren't rumors of abortions, rape or underage sex (though those all exist), this is consensual vanilla sex. There haven't been any embarrassing stories associated with the affairs either, so it must be about maintaining his marriage.
It doesn't have anything to do with his marriage. It's because he's the President. He has to at least attempt to maintain the image that he's a Christian family man and a good husband. Melania dont give a fuck, she's the first lady, rich as fuck and one of the most famous women in the world. They're not married because they love eachother lol, it's a mutually beneficial contract.
 

rambis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,790
NY is actually looking to change that law as we speak. http://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...legislation-to-prosecute-despite-presidential

here is the status of it right now.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2017/s8236

its in committee. so by the time cohen is charged etc. they could still bag him at a state level or trump himself lmao.
Also, Cohen has yet to be indicted for anything anywhere. Just like Manafort, they could leave out multiple applicable charges to save for state prosecutors.
 

AlteredBeast

Don't Watch the Tape!
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,767
It was weird hearing Trump speaking in his "real" voice rather than the TV pitchman act or the bumbling old man act.

I know, right? Almost sounded coherent and non-dementia-addled. That is what every hopeful democrat was hoping got elected when the unimaginable happened. Instead, all of our worst fears were validated time and time again. Either the dude has had a stroke lately, or it is all a weird act for the cameras to pretend to be handicapped mentally.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
No, I'm expecting something that says it's a possibility.

I'll save you the time and trouble: it's not.

It's mathematically impossible for him to be removed by impeachment, and it's not constitutionally possible for him to be indicted, especially with the current make up of the SCOTUS.

You've set the bar at an unattainable height and (along with countless others) are now poo-pooing on every new development for failing to take us there.
 

Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,673
It doesn't have anything to do with his marriage. It's because he's the President. He has to at least attempt to maintain the image that he's a Christian family man and a good husband. Melania dont give a fuck, she's the first lady, rich as fuck and one of the most famous women in the world. They're not married because they love eachother lol, it's a mutually beneficial contract.

Is she independently wealthy? Because after all his marriages, I'm thinking he probably had a decent pre-nup, but then again his legal team isn't the best.
 

MrMatt555

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
663
It reminds me of the Hobbit where Bilbo tricks the trolls into arguing among themselves for so long that they turn to stone and he escapes unhurt. Dems fuck this kind of stuff up so often because of the bickering and infighting. All the ultra-sages and the super-wokes will savage eachother in purity contests while the right sticks together no matter what. Repubs stuck by a fucking pedophile and only just lost that election; dems would disown a candidate for making the slightest 'problematic' comment or mistake.
Correct. This mentality will cost Dems the 2020 election too if they don't at least attempt some sort of messaging that isn't shouting down people all the time. Also it's funny that you mention the infighting over pointless minutae when you have cnn doing just the same thing...
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
I'll save you the time and trouble: it's not.

It's mathematically impossible for him to be removed by impeachment, and it's not constitutionally possible for him to be indicted, especially with the current make up of the SCOTUS.

You've set the bar at an unattainable height and (along with countless others) are now poo-pooing on every new development for failing to take us there.

Mind, I never said a development that would do that by itself.

Developments like this are generally only useful for increasing liberal anger - but hey, that is politically useful.

That said, if you're not expecting anything of new developments, I'd argue you've set the bar too low. I've already seen Trump supporters talk about how his infidelity doesn't matter if he's doing a good job. The man literally switches his story day to day.

You know what has been hurting his brand? The Russia shit. Helsinki. Immigration.

This stuff? Not so much.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,583
Is she independently wealthy? Because after all his marriages, I'm thinking he probably had a decent pre-nup, but then again his legal team isn't the best.
His pre-nups for his past wives were nuts. I'm sure being married to Trump is much more beneficial to her than divorcing him.
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
Your arrogance and hubris in expanding Trumps base to people being too "realistic" is the kind of Liberal piousness that legitimizes all purity test complaints. It's insulting to call someone a Trump supporter. It's hurtful. It's intimidation. Count me among Trump haters who also predicts nothing will come of this even if Karen McDougal has a 3 hour HD video Trump confession / sex tape.

If Republicans will continue to ignore rape allegations, the Steele Dossier, Trump Foundation Fraud, Trump University Fraud, TD Trump Deutschland AG fraud, Helsinki, and Shark Week sex - they will also ignore this.

Our only hope is impeachment. If the economy is doing well nothing will stop his re-election. And that is only possible with straight-up irrefutable evidence of Trump personally colluding with Russia. Even then, who knows with this congress. Let's hope Mueller has the goods.

The cold, sad truth.
Trump has ushered in an era where objective truth barely matters. He will call out 'FAKE NEWS' and people will go about their day because that's how everyone of these scandals have turned out. It's been completely normalized at this point, and his tactic is working. Is anyone today still talking about the ridiculous Helsinki summit? It's already in the back of most people's minds because there's a scandal a day with this guy in charge. People have become acclimatised to this new status quo.

The man is virtually untouchable by scandals. People need to realize this. There isn't some shield that's slowly eroding with each and every scandal until the bubble finally bursts. It's a fallacy.
The only way to fix this is to spread the word and vote. Nothing matters more.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,005
I'll save you the time and trouble: it's not.

It's mathematically impossible for him to be removed by impeachment, and it's not constitutionally possible for him to be indicted, especially with the current make up of the SCOTUS.

You've set the bar at an unattainable height and (along with countless others) are now poo-pooing on every new development for failing to take us there.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that a sitting President can't be indicted. That has never been settled in the courts or any law. It's a yet to be tested question currently.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,074
Di6jt3BUUAAgcv8.jpg


rofl

is there video of this?

edit: nm, I found it.

It's perfect.

 
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
The cold, sad truth.
Trump has ushered in an era where objective truth barely matters. He will call out 'FAKE NEWS' and people will go about their day because that's how everyone of these scandals have turned out. It's been completely normalized at this point, and his tactic is working. Is anyone today still talking about the ridiculous Helsinki summit? It's already in the back of most people's minds because there's a scandal a day with this guy in charge. People have become acclimatised to this new status quo.

The man is virtually untouchable by scandals. People need to realize this. There isn't some shield that's slowly eroding with each and every scandal until the bubble finally bursts. It's a fallacy.
The only way to fix this is to spread the word and vote. Nothing matters more.

Everyone is in survival mode at this point. Keep your head down and hope you don't get caught in the shitstorm or make your break before it's too late. Trump people are all hoping they can cling to a supposed strong man hoping he'll take them along when the flood hits. Rational people know that eventually he'll betray everyone, but they're afraid that the world is coming to an end and it's eat or be eaten.

These people don't want to try and fix things. They want to hoard and take what they can so they can hold on a few hours longer than the rest.

In short, they're scared, selfish, and most of all, stupid.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
I don't know where you're getting this idea that a sitting President can't be indicted. That has never been settled in the courts or any law. It's a yet to be tested question currently.

And who, exactly, would be settling this hypothetical question, should it arise? What's the current political makeup of this group? What's about to happen to that political makeup pending a new appointment?

He's not getting indicted.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,005
And who, exactly, would be settling this hypothetical question, should it arise? What's the current political makeup of this group? What's about to happen to that political makeup pending a new appointment?

He's not getting indicted.

You're confusing him getting indicted with the administration and Congress respecting and following the indictment. If Mueller finds sufficient evidence of wrongdoing on Trump's part, he will obtain an indictment against him. That is not the "hard" part. After such an indictment is issued it would be up to law enforcement, the White House, Congress, and the Courts to follow through on it. I list Congress as they can make the situation easy by immediately impeaching Trump after being presented with said indictment, but assuming they don't, and assuming the Administration doesn't hand over Trump, then it would go to the Courts which would decide whether a sitting President can be indicted for crimes that likely occurred before taking office.
 

mintzilla

Member
Nov 6, 2017
582
Canada
"Surely this is the lie that will end his presidency" he tried to say while keeping a straight face.

It reminds me of the Hobbit where Bilbo tricks the trolls into arguing among themselves for so long that they turn to stone and he escapes unhurt. Dems fuck this kind of stuff up so often because of the bickering and infighting. All the ultra-sages and the super-wokes will savage eachother in purity contests while the right sticks together no matter what. Repubs stuck by a fucking pedophile and only just lost that election; dems would disown a candidate for making the slightest 'problematic' comment or mistake.

This man gets it.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,005
That Mueller would attempt to indict the president. It's not a widely held belief in the legal world that the president can be indicted.

I'm in the legal world, hence why I said it's an open question. There is no definitive answer as it's never happened before. The closest in modern history was Bill Clinton and the Court, at the very least, stated that he had to appear for his famous deposition clarifying that the President was not immune from such a process specifically when it concerns conduct which occurred before becoming President.

This question has never been tested because the common belief that any President about to be indicted would be impeached thus making the question moot. But, this current Congress and the prevalence of FAKE NEWS may make it so that any indictment wouldn't be respected and chalked up to partisan hackery. Thus, the question would finally be resolved then.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
I'm in the legal world, hence why I said it's an open question. There is no definitive answer as it's never happened before. The closest in modern history was Bill Clinton and the Court, at the very least, stated that he had to appear for his famous deposition clarifying that the President was not immune from such a process specifically when it concerns conduct which occurred before becoming President.

This question has never been tested because the common belief that any President about to be indicted would be impeached thus making the question moot. But, this current Congress and the prevalence of FAKE NEWS may make it so that any indictment wouldn't be respected and chalked up to partisan hackery. Thus, the question would finally be resolved then.

Again regardless of whether it's been tested or not I don't believe the consensus is on the "can indict" side and there's little reason at all to believe Mueller thinks it can be done. Maybe he does, but nothing he's said or done suggests any break with traditional thought there.