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Mehr

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
324
Yeah of course. And somehow we would think the country doesn´t even exist anymore considering how the international press, who was so eager to drag everyone into a war against Gaddafi back in 2011, just all out ignores Libya. Fucking up Libya and supporting the islamic terrorists was one of the shadiest thing the US and it´s allies ever did to any country. From one of the richest countries in Africa to a full blown anarchic shithole.

I was there pre and post revolution and there was no real "support" for any faction, The UK and US were primarily concerned with carving up the country for business and letting whoever was in charge do there thing/sign the contracts. Even after Benghazi, they weren't concerned as to what was happening and said they had a handle on the situation.

You also had Qatar/The Brotherhood doing their best to muddy the waters
 

Nintex

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
672
This has happened for a while just no one took notice.

These are basically the same criminal enterprises that smuggle migrants from Libya to Europe. They use the exact same channels that were used for drugs and people trafficking.
If you want to put a stop to this you have to install and support a government in Libya but the US understandably doesn't have the stomach for foreign wars and occupations anymore.

Libya's best hope in the short term is ironically that Haftar (Putin's military puppet) takes over and installs a military regime. Otherwise the anarchy will continue.
Gadaffi pretty much ruled over a bunch of tribes. Countries like Afghanistan and Libya are nations to us because of lines on a map but in reality those country are more or less nomadic and tribal in nature.
It doesn't really matter who's in power you need force to uphold the rule of law as the people will just side with the strongest factions to protect themselves.
 

Mehr

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
324
This has happened for a while just no one took notice.

These are basically the same criminal enterprises that smuggle migrants from Libya to Europe. They use the exact same channels that were used for drugs and people trafficking.
If you want to put a stop to this you have to install and support a government in Libya but the US understandably doesn't have the stomach for foreign wars and occupations anymore.

Libya's best hope in the short term is ironically that Haftar (Putin's military puppet) takes over and installs a military regime. Otherwise the anarchy will continue.
Gadaffi pretty much ruled over a bunch of tribes. Countries like Afghanistan and Libya are nations to us because of lines on a map but in reality those country are more or less nomadic and tribal in nature.
It doesn't really matter who's in power you need force to uphold the rule of law as the people will just side with the strongest factions to protect themselves.

As unpalatable as it sounds Saif is the best chance the country has.
 

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
This is sickening. Damn.

Libya always their migrants in despectifull ways, but this is another level. What a shame. This is a reminder that we are never safe to see horrendous things of the past come alive again.
I know slavery is strong as ever in the world, but there is a difference between borderline slavery work condition, underground prostitution ring and open market when you can buy actually buy a person and force him to work him on your farm.

Damn.
 

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
Yeah of course. And somehow we would think the country doesn´t even exist anymore considering how the international press, who was so eager to drag everyone into a war against Gaddafi back in 2011, just all out ignores Libya. Fucking up Libya and supporting the islamic terrorists was one of the shadiest thing the US and it´s allies ever did to any country. From one of the richest countries in Africa to a full blown anarchic shithole.

Khadafi used terrorism many times and had relationship with terrorists groups and his regime was basically a theocracy, with him as the sole religious authority of the country. It was never a rich country, it was a kleptocracy. Khadafi used to put africans refugee into camps and execute a lot of them, the rest was expelled out of the country, he used to be the gatekeeper for Europe. He was despecticable.
 

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
As unpalatable as it sounds Saif is the best chance the country has.

Except everybody hate him. All the major political faction in Libya are anti-khadafi and his phony ideology. Nobody will accept to take this shit anymore.

It would be amazing if a topic about slavery in Libya wouldn't turn about straight out "they need dictatorship back again".
The common word to call black migrant in the country used to be, by khadafi authorities, 'abid (slave). It's not a new problem, it's just a problem made apparent again.

Racism, tribal wars, torture camp, funding of terrorists groups, political assassinations, were common under Khadafi rule.
 

Dodongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,462
This is why it pisses me off when conservatives have disdain for refugees, or say things like "they are just economic migrants".

No, these are some of the most vulnerable human beings in the world, and they literally just want to live. We should have more compassion.
 

Nintex

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
672
This is why it pisses me off when conservatives have disdain for refugees, or say things like "they are just economic migrants".

No, these are some of the most vulnerable human beings in the world, and they literally just want to live. We should have more compassion.
The problem is that you can't help everyone.

There's serious problems like overpopulation which causes famine, diseases and other problems. However, understandably the Africans aren't waiting for some European or American to tell them how to govern and behave.
We're trying to equalize these area's with our own modern urban lifestyle, which only exists in this modern form for roughly 20 - 30 years.

City people in the US and Europe hardly understand how the country folk live and consider them dumb rednecks and bigots.
Yet, the same people think they 'know' how Africa or the Middle East works or how they can make it work.

And when refugees are allowed to enter politicians think they can teach them within a week or so how to behave and participate in a far more highly advanced western society.
The result is that they bring with them their ethnic tensions, their dated interpretations of religion and often children who've suffered from trauma's.

If you want to fix the problem with refugees, we have to stop creating refugees because moving hundreds of thousands of people from one side of the planet to another has never solved anything.
We're looking for quick fixes to problems that took western societies decades to solve and still haven't been solved completely. The US fought a civil war over slavery.
Europe fought brutal wars before it decided Authoritarianism would be abolished.

To solve German Militarism and Fascism the allies had to literally kill over 6 million Germans in WW2 and between 2 and 4 million in WW1.
That's roughly 10 million dead in 25 years. The result is a relative peaceful Europe but it came at a cost.

To abolish tribalism in Africa, well I won't even go there in terms of numbers and no one hopefully ever will.
The only real solution is time and to end the comparisons between highly advanced western societies and third world countries.

Only Libyans can plot a new future for their country if they want to and all we can do is make sure that slavery and human trafficking is not rewarded and take action on smugglers and other criminals outside their borders.
 

MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
I'm a Libyan, I feel like shit about this news and I'm very sorry for every human who found himself in such a humiliating situation in my country or any other part in this world, but this has nothing to do with the Libyan people, we are treating the African workers with respect and this something I have seen it myself, we have many kinds of workers and they live peacefully with the locals, we have some militias that is hurting both the Libyans and the foreigners. There are some gangs in Libya that kidnapping a Libyan child or a Man/Woman and they ask for one million dollar ransom and sometimes more or less, and when the families arrange the payment; those gangs take the money and throw the poor person on the street dead and tortured, if they do this to their fellow citizens; just imagine what they would do to a helpless foreign worker\immigrant. On the other hand I sense a bit of exaggeration, such as a video reportage on France 24 about a person who fled back to Cameron running away from slavery in Libya and he said that he was beaten and forced to work on the Pistachios farms in the Brak city which is located in the center of Libya, and the funny fact that is there are no Pistachios farms in Libya at all, and the Pistachios we consume in Libya is 100% imported. Also, in the CNN reportage, the immigrants in the slave auction were clearly smiling which is something unexpected from a man in such a horrible situation. Moreover, why there is an idea the media trying to produce which implies that the Libyans are in known of such acts and they are happy with it!
I think there is a plan to make the possible immigrants in Africa feel panic when they think about Libya as a passage to Europe, this plan, if succeeded, could minimize the large numbers of African immigrants to Europe through Libya.

I know this is an old thread but it's a continuous topic, and I had to write my opinion, sorry if I'm violating any rules.
 
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Kiddo76

Member
Nov 27, 2017
75
Not even just the prison system. There is a substantial underground slave trade in America. Mostly sex trafficking.
Human Trafficking is the third largest international crime industry. I think I read somewhere that in the U.S. around 18,000 people are trafficked each year.
 

Transhuman

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
380
The way people seem to dismiss slavery as a "poor country problem" is based in ignorance. The victims of trafficking usually end up in countries like America, Australia, Japan, Italy, Germany, etc.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,090
Not even close. people in Qatar used to come as working visa. if you dont want the job anymore, they send you back to your country. but this is slavery
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.the...r-pep-guardiola-zinedine-zidane-qatar-trapped

Zahir Belounis, the French professional footballer trapped in Qatar under its controversial labour laws, has written an impassioned plea to the former 2022 World Cup ambassadors Zinedine Zidane and Pep Guardiola asking them to intervene on his behalf. The 33-year-old has not been allowed back to France since June 2012 because he has been embroiled in a legal dispute with his former club al-Jaish, who play in the Qatar Stars League, over two years' unpaid wages.

He is a French citizen of North African decent and this is how they treated him. What chance do people drone India, Pakistan, Nepal, Philippines, etc, have? But please, continue.
 

D.A.

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
425
The way people seem to dismiss slavery as a "poor country problem" is based in ignorance. The victims of trafficking usually end up in countries like America, Australia, Japan, Italy, Germany, etc.

Can't see slavery ending. As people acquire more freedom, power and security they intrinsically become more able to abuse others, and some will do so.

Yeah, just like murderers know murder is wrong. Think they care ?
Some are amoral and dont think it is wrong.

Question is will super intelligent posthumans share human morality or be amoral monsters.
 
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karby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
107
I'm a Libyan, I feel like shit about this news and I'm very sorry for every human who found himself in such a humiliating situation in my country or any other part in this world, but this has nothing to do with the Libyan people, we are treating the African workers with respect and this something I have seen it myself, we have many kinds of workers and they live peacefully with the locals, we have some militias that is hurting both the Libyans and the foreigners.
Whether you like it or not, this has everything to do with the Libyan people. It's the Libyan people who are allowing this. Secondly, you're not an 'African'. You don't have the perspective that they have.
Slavers in the American south also thought there were 'no problems' because they claimed their slaves were 'happy'. That entire line of thinking is bullshit. Unless you come from the population that's affected, you will never have any idea what it's like to be on the receiving end of such monstrous behavior. So please, keep the 'We're all happy and get along just fine' nonsense to yourself.


. On the other hand I sense a bit of exaggeration, such as a video reportage on France 24 about a person who fled back to Cameron running away from slavery in Libya and he said that he was beaten and forced to work on the Pistachios farms in the Brak city which is located in the center of Libya, and the funny fact that is there are no Pistachios farms in Libya at all, and the Pistachios we consume in Libya is 100% imported.
Right. So because some migrant couldn't quite recall all the details to the exact letter of his enslavement, the entire thing must be exaggerated, in spite of the fact that there have been reports of migrant slave markets in Libya for years, which have recently been confirmed with a released video. Ok.

Also, in the CNN reportage, the immigrants in the slave auction were clearly smiling which is something unexpected from a man in such a horrible situation.
...Seriously?? Ever hear the phrase 'laugh to keep from crying?'

Moreover, why there is an idea the media trying to produce which implies that the Libyans are in known of such acts and they are happy with it!
Clearly, some Libyans are happy with it, because if they weren't it wouldn't happen.

I think there is a plan to make the possible immigrants in Africa feel panic when they think about Libya as a passage to Europe, this plan, if succeeded, could minimize the large numbers of African immigrants to Europe through Libya.
So you consider your conspiracy theory plausible, but the actual evidence of slave markets in your country 'exaggerated'?

Dude look, I understand you're embarrassed that your country has been exposed as a racist hellhole having open slave markets in the 21st century and that you're trying to soften the blow, but this entire post is garbage.
 

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
I'm a Libyan, I feel like shit about this news and I'm very sorry for every human who found himself in such a humiliating situation in my country or any other part in this world, but this has nothing to do with the Libyan people, we are treating the African workers with respect and this something I have seen it myself, we have many kinds of workers and they live peacefully with the locals, we have some militias that is hurting both the Libyans and the foreigners. There are some gangs in Libya that kidnapping a Libyan child or a Man/Woman and they ask for one million dollar ransom and sometimes more or less, and when the families arrange the payment; those gangs take the money and throw the poor person on the street dead and tortured, if they do this to their fellow citizens; just imagine what they would do to a helpless foreign worker\immigrant. On the other hand I sense a bit of exaggeration, such as a video reportage on France 24 about a person who fled back to Cameron running away from slavery in Libya and he said that he was beaten and forced to work on the Pistachios farms in the Brak city which is located in the center of Libya, and the funny fact that is there are no Pistachios farms in Libya at all, and the Pistachios we consume in Libya is 100% imported. Also, in the CNN reportage, the immigrants in the slave auction were clearly smiling which is something unexpected from a man in such a horrible situation. Moreover, why there is an idea the media trying to produce which implies that the Libyans are in known of such acts and they are happy with it!
I think there is a plan to make the possible immigrants in Africa feel panic when they think about Libya as a passage to Europe, this plan, if succeeded, could minimize the large numbers of African immigrants to Europe through Libya.

I know this is an old thread but it's a continuous topic, and I had to write my opinion, sorry if I'm violating any rules.

I think if you're Libyan and want to speak about this, you owe to yourself to study better the situation before taking hot takes. Go to speak with humanitarians groups working with slaves and ex-slaves in your country.

You should worry first about enslaved africans than about preserving the "honor of your country". Loving your country is making everything possible to prevent such atrocities, not trying to deny it or diminish it.
 

MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
Whether you like it or not, this has everything to do with the Libyan people. It's the Libyan people who are allowing this. Secondly, you're not an 'African'. You don't have the perspective that they have.
Slavers in the American south also thought there were 'no problems' because they claimed their slaves were 'happy'. That entire line of thinking is bullshit. Unless you come from the population that's affected, you will never have any idea what it's like to be on the receiving end of such monstrous behavior. So please, keep the 'We're all happy and get along just fine' nonsense to yourself.



Right. So because some migrant couldn't quite recall all the details to the exact letter of his enslavement, the entire thing must be exaggerated, in spite of the fact that there have been reports of migrant slave markets in Libya for years, which have recently been confirmed with a released video. Ok.


...Seriously?? Ever hear the phrase 'laugh to keep from crying?'


Clearly, some Libyans are happy with it, because if they weren't it wouldn't happen.


So you consider your conspiracy theory plausible, but the actual evidence of slave markets in your country 'exaggerated'?

Dude look, I understand you're embarrassed that your country has been exposed as a racist hellhole having open slave markets in the 21st century and that you're trying to soften the blow, but this entire post is garbage.

No, it doesn't mean that we allow it, because this is a news for us, as same as everyone.
Our country is in a chaos right now, the Libyans themselves are not feeling safe about their own security. However, of course, some of them are happy but those are the gangs who do such things.

I'm talking about the workers, whom I said that the locals are living quite well with them, this is something I have seen myself. On the other hand, the locals don't interact with the African immigrants, because you never see them across the cities, they either succeed in their journey to the illegal ports to travel to Europe or fell into the hand of the weak government or mostly in the hands of the militias.

you don't know how hard to live in Libya right now, so please don't tell me that we are happy with this inhuman behaviors, while our children also regularly being kidnapped by those militias and being killed even after their parents pay the huge ransom.

Don't try to make us less human than the rest of the world just because an auction happens in dark places that needed an investigation report from the CNN to show it to the world, the shock hit us first as Libyans.

Don't make this appear as if there are slave markets in the city center where the slaves being sold as if they were cow meat, no there isn't, and no one knows where are these auctions occur.

Don't try to make this look as a policy of Libya, because we have a weak government and a suffering people who cannot even defend themselves.

Don't try to make this not exaggerated because here is an Example from the CNN.

Also, about what you name it "a conspiracy theory" how about you read this Link

I think your post is the garbage because you are trying to make this appears as if it was the fault of the people of Libya and makes it appear as if we actually have these markets in public and we know about them, dammit, man, we even did have a black prime minister who was born in Nigeria, so please don't try to make us look as racists. However, this is not comparable to what happened in the US because that was a state policy and it was something declared in public and there were legal slave markets, but in Libya no such thing applicable, If you watched the full reportage of the CNN you will notice that this was an auction held very secretly and ended very quickly, and no one except a "contact" did know about the place, so never accuse the people of Libya of such horrible things, We Are Not OK With It, We Will Fight It.


 
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MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
I think if you're Libyan and want to speak about this, you owe to yourself to study better the situation before taking hot takes. Go to speak with humanitarians groups working with slaves and ex-slaves in your country.

You should worry first about enslaved africans than about preserving the "honor of your country". Loving your country is making everything possible to prevent such atrocities, not trying to deny it or diminish it.

Please read my reply to karby.
 

karby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
107
No, it doesn't mean that we allow it, because this is a news for us, as same as everyone.
Our country is in a chaos right now, the Libyans themselves are not feeling safe about their own security. However, of course, some of them are happy but those are the gangs who do such things.
Dude...if it wasn't tolerated, it wouldn't be happening. Period. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the slavers in that video are Libyans.

I'm talking about the workers, whom I said that the locals are living quite well with them, this is something I have seen myself. On the other hand, the locals don't interact with the African immigrants, because you never see them across the cities, they either succeed in their journey to the illegal ports to travel to Europe or fell into the hand of the weak government or mostly in the hands of the militias.
Again...there is a world of a difference between seeing and experiencing. Unless you yourself are an African worker, and have first hand experience on how African workers are treated, don't pretend you know what their experiences are like.

you don't know how hard to live in Libya right now, so please don't tell me that we are happy with this inhuman behaviors, while our children also regularly being kidnapped by those militias and being killed even after their parents pay the huge ransom.

Don't try to make us less human than the rest of the world just because an auction happens in dark places that needed an investigation report from the CNN to show it to the world, the shock hit us first as Libyans.

Don't make this appear as if there are slave markets in the city center where the slaves being sold as if they were cow meat, no there isn't, and no one knows where are these auctions occur.

Don't try to make this look as a policy of Libya, because we have a weak government and a suffering people who cannot even defend themselves.
I've done no such thing. A slave market in the 21st century is especially grim. Yes, it's embarrassing for your country, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's happening and that it's very real.

Don't try to make this not exaggerated because here is an Example from the CNN.

Also, about what you name it "a conspiracy theory" how about you read this Link

I think your post is the garbage because you are trying to make this appears as if it was the fault of the people of Libya and makes it appear as if we actually have these markets in public and we know about them, dammit, man, we even did have a black prime minister who was born in Nigeria, so please don't try to make us look as racists. However, this is not comparable to what happened in the US because that was a state policy and it was something declared in public and there were legal slave markets, but in Libya no such thing applicable, If you watched the full reportage of the CNN you will notice that this was an auction held very secretly and ended very quickly, and no one except a "contact" did know about the place, so never accuse the people of Libya of such horrible things, We Are Not OK With It, We Will Fight It.
Um...did you...read the links you provided? Both of them confirm that the slavery problem in Libya is not exaggerated, is very well known, and occurs with regularity. One of your links even offers this quote:
...
However, there is a real epidemic of abuse against migrants in Libya. The FRANCE 24 Observers team has documented the terrible suffering of migrants in Libya on several occasions.
That link even confirms that reporters from that organization did a story just a few months ago on migrant horrors in Libya, and a previous story again on migrant abuse before that in 2016. So it's not just traffickers. From your own links, average Libyans are being reported as being OK with migrant abuse and migrant slavers. As for your conspiracy theory, even that's a horror show. Because according to your theory, some shadowy entity is trying to dissuade migrant Africans from leaving African by having Libyans enslave them as an 'example' of why they shouldn't try to leave. How is that any better?
 
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Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
I don't think it's fair to compare the situation in Libya and the slavery in the US, we can give him that. In Libya it's the product of chaos it's not legal, nor it's the base of the libyan economy. Let's not forget that in various states of the US, the slave population outnumbered the free population.

The rest of his point really show a lack of empathy to say the least and I hope he'll get banned.
 

MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
Dude...if it wasn't tolerated, it wouldn't be happening. Period. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the slavers in that video are Libyans.


Again...there is a world of a difference between seeing and experiencing. Unless you yourself are an African worker, and have first hand experience on how African workers are treated, don't pretend you know what their experiences are like.


I've done no such thing. An open slave market in the 21st century is especially grim. Yes, it's embarrassing for your country, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's happening and that it's very real.


Um...did you...read the links you provided? Both of them confirm that the slavery problem in Libya is not exaggerated, is very well known, and occurs with regularity. One of your links even offers this quote:

That link even confirms that reporters from that organization did a story just a few months ago on migrant horrors in Libya, and a previous story again on migrant abuse before that in 2016. So it's not just traffickers. From your own links, average Libyans are being reported as being OK with migrant abuse and migrant slavers. As for your conspiracy theory, even that's a horror show. Because according to your theory, some shadowy entity is trying to dissuade migrant Africans from leaving African by having Libyans enslave them as an 'example' of why they shouldn't try to leave. How is that any better?


Read your words man, you are blaming us the 6 Million Libyans of different races and cultures of being happy with this, this is nonsense.

Do you think we are happy with the wars? or the kidnapping? or the failed state we are living? this shit happens due to the absence of the rule of law, and we are not happy with it, the link I provided for you shows you a video of man being tortured and the CNN claimed it was in Libya while it isn't, and I didn't say that the whole news is fake, what I'm saying is that there is an exaggeration, there is difference obviously, anyway, I told you that the locals don't interact with immigrants and you rarely see them in public.

And yes they are Libyans but they don't represent us unless you see Hitler as a representative of the Germans, we are not ruling our country, it's now being ruled by militias and gangs, it's a FAILED STATE if you know what that means, and right now there is a shock between the Libyans after this news and we are furious about these acts, believe me, this is not our fault, nor it's the fault of those poor immigrants, it's the fault of the gangs in control.
 
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MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
I don't think it's fair to compare the situation in Libya and the slavery in the US, we can give him that. In Libya it's the product of chaos it's not legal, nor it's the base of the libyan economy. Let's not forget that in various states of the US, the slave population outnumbered the free population.

The rest of his point really show a lack of empathy to say the least and I hope he'll get banned.

Did I blame the Immigrants? or did I defend such acts? why you hope I get banned? I practiced the free of speech I suppose, and I didn't attack anyone.
I only defended my people from being blamed for such horrible things happened without their knowledge or consent
 

pj-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
Dude...if it wasn't tolerated, it wouldn't be happening. Period. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the slavers in that video are Libyans.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

What magic country do you live in where everything that isn't "tolerated" never occurs? No murders in your country? No rapes? Your country is 100% free of sex slavery?
 

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
Did I blame the Immigrants? or did I defend such acts? why you hope I get banned? I practiced the free of speech I suppose, and I didn't attack anyone.
I only defended my people from being blamed for such horrible things happened without their knowledge or consent
Free Speech don't mean you have the right to deny the reality of the horror of slavery in your country because you saw footage where they were "smiling".
 
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karby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
107
I don't think it's fair to compare the situation in Libya and the slavery in the US, we can give him that. In Libya it's the product of chaos it's not legal, nor it's the base of the libyan economy. Let's not forget that in various states of the US, the slave population outnumbered the free population.

The rest of his point really show a lack of empathy to say the least and I hope he'll get banned.

I agree, but I'm not comparing slavery in the US to Libya, I was comparing the excuse that he used, which was basically 'Things are great here and there's no problems because the slaves are happy in their place.'
I'm saying that using the rationale that there are no problems because slaves don't complain is nonsense. The same rationale was used in the US to justify slavery here too.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

What magic country do you live in where everything that isn't "tolerated" never occurs? No murders in your country? No rapes? Your country is 100% free of sex slavery?
Yeah, that's kind of my point. If it weren't tolerated, it wouldn't be happening. The people who do it tolerate it, as evidenced by the fact that it's happening. I'm not blaming the entire population of Libya. But if slavers did not tolerate slavery, they wouldn't enslave people. If rapists did not tolerate rape, they wouldn't rape people. But the fact that it's happening, means that, on some level it's tolerated. If slave markets were not tolerated on some level, they wouldn't exist, but they do.

Read your words man, you are blaming us the 6 Million Libyans of different races and cultures of being happy with this, this is nonsense.

Do you think we are happy with the wars? or the kidnapping? or the failed state we are living? this shit happens due to the absence of the rule of law, and we are not happy with it, the link I provided for you shows you a video of man being tortured and the CNN claimed it was in Libya while it isn't, and I didn't say that the whole news is fake, what I'm saying is that there is an exaggeration, there is difference obviously, anyway, I told you that the locals don't interact with immigrants and you rarely see them in public.

And yes they are Libyans but they don't represent us unless you see Hitler as a representative of the Germans, we are not ruling our country, it's now being ruled by militias and gangs, it's a FAILED STATE if you know what that means, and right now there is a shock between the Libyans after this news and we are furious about these acts, believe me, this is not our fault, nor it's the fault of those poor immigrants, it's the fault of the gangs in control.
Let's get one thing squared away: At no point did I blame all of Libya for this. I'm aware of what happened and what's currently happening in Libya. I may not know all the intricate details, but macroscopically, I understand what's going on. My posts are directly addressing you(or rather your points), not all of Libya. My issue with you is your lack of empathy and the excuses you keep trying to come up with to justify this, as if it's some small annoying thing. I do understand that you're trying to defend your country, and I'm very well aware that obviously, most people don't agree with what's happening but dude the way you're framing your points, it's like you're trying to brush this under the rug as no big deal, and it's a very big deal.
 
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MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
I agree, but I'm not comparing slavery in the US to Libya, I was comparing the excuse that he used, which was basically 'Things are great here and there's no problems because the slaves are happy in their place.'
I'm saying that using the rationale that there are no problems because slaves don't complain is nonsense. The same rationale was used in the US to justify slavery here too.


Yeah, that's kind of my point. If it weren't tolerated, it wouldn't be happening. The people who do it tolerate it, as evidenced by the fact that it's happening. I'm not blaming the entire population of Libya. But if slavers did not tolerate slavery, they wouldn't enslave people. If rapists did not tolerate rape, they wouldn't rape people. But the fact that it's happening, means that, on some level it's tolerated. If open slave markets were not tolerated on some level, they wouldn't exist, but they do.

It's not "OPEN" slave markets, those are auctions held secretly that no one knows the location of it, it needed an investigation report to expose it, and we didn't even see the faces of the criminals, so please don't say it's open markets.
 
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MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
Free Speech don't need you have the right to deny the reality of the horror of slavery in your country because you saw footage where they were "smiling".

There is some exaggeration and the fake video I mentioned before proves it, there is a difference between saying there is an "exaggeration" and "denying it" so please read my words first then.
 

karby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
107
It's not "OPEN" slave markets, those are auctions held secretly that no one knows the location of it, it needed an investigation report to expose it, and we didn't even see the faces of the criminals.

Fair enough. Considering I don't have evidence to say otherwise, I'll remove the word 'open' from my posts.
 

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
I agree, but I'm not comparing slavery in the US to Libya, I was comparing the excuse that he used, which was basically 'Things are great here and there's no problems because the slaves are happy in their place.'
I'm saying that using the rationale that there are no problems because slaves don't complain is nonsense. The same rationale was used in the US to justify slavery here too.

You're right.

There is some exaggeration and the fake video I mentioned before proves it, there is a difference between saying there is an "exaggeration" and "denying it" so please read my words first then.

You're denying the horror of slavery with arguments who wouldn't be so different of US slavers defense.
Again, you should be more worried about the well being of african migrants in your country than to want to whitewash the image of Libya internationally.
I'm french, and migrants are treated horrendously. Most french are not directly involved in it, but it's because they don't care that the situation still going on. Passivity of the masses is always the mean of the worst crimes being done, everybody is accomplice.
 

MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
You're right.



You're denying the horror of slavery with arguments who wouldn't be so different of US slavers defense.
Again, you should be more worried about the well being of african migrants in your country than to want to whitewash the image of Libya internationally.
I'm french, and migrants are treated horrendously. Most french are not directly involved in it, but it's because they don't care that the situation still going on. Passivity of the masses is always the mean of the worst crimes being done, everybody is accomplice.

No, it's far different, I didn't defend and slavery, and I didn't justify it, and I will not.
I just pointed to the fact that Libya is in a chaos and the law is absent, even the Libyans cannot defend themselves against those bastards, so blaming the locals for horrible things they don't even know about is wrong and unfair. I condemn slavery and human trafficking and the abuse of every person no matter what their identity was or the location of abusing including Libya.
 

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
No, it's far different, I didn't defend and slavery, and I didn't justify it, and I will not.
I just pointed to the fact that Libya is in a chaos and the law is absent, even the Libyans cannot defend themselves against those bastards, so blaming the locals for horrible things they don't even know about is wrong and unfair. I condemn slavery and human trafficking and the abuse of every person no matter what their identity was or the location of abusing including Libya.

You just indulge yourself in saying that they were a conspiracy to make slavery look worst in your country that it's actually is. You accused CNN to exaggerate to justify future operation in Libya.
 

MaxSnake1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
16
Turkey
You just indulge yourself in saying that they were a conspiracy to make slavery look worst in your country that it's actually is. You accused CNN to exaggerate to justify future operation in Libya.

I supported my point of view with the links above, what does it mean when the CNN publish a fake video and claim it was in Libya? that video spread widely among the African media, even after France 24 observes said it was fake nobody cared, and they continue to do so. Also, there are a lot of videos and pictures from the 2011 civil war where the soldiers of Gaddafi being held by the rebels, and the African media now publish them as if they were from this crisis.

I follow the news about this crisis and I'm telling you, not everything about it is authentic, just look at the "cannibalism" news, man.

The slavery problem does exist in Libya but it's not legal nor ethical, and the Libyan society shocked by this news same as everyone "you can check the Libyan social media to take a glimpse" and the problem must be solved with an iron fist, so every person in Libya can feel safe about their lives and freedom.
 
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bar_bar12

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,439
Gotta love when the west fucks up your country and then forgets that it exists until they find another reprehensible thing to demonize the country for.