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Deleted member 6949

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,786
Collateral is great. My only beef with it is the way that Jada Pinkett Smith's character disappears for most of the movie. It's too convenient that they would be all flirty with each other, and then Jamie Foxx would immediately pick up a hitman that would be targeting her later in the night. It would make more sense if they were just in it together for the whole movie.
 

FormatCompatible

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,071
You got Les Grossman Cruise which is almost as good.

dce76c80bb7a7c2a82bc0a5f1d4149f573627330.jpg
It really is a amazing performance, really good representation of Harvey Weinstein.

Now while Cruise has never appeared in a Harvey Weinstein-produced film, he was heavily courted by the former Miramax head to star in the film version of "Cold Mountain." According the 2005 book "Down and Dirty Pictures" by Peter Biskind, the negotiations eventually broke down in part due to misgivings Cruise had about Weinstein's trustworthiness, with the star feeling like he had been treated "shabbily" by the producer by the end.

This would have likely occurred shortly before Cruise met with Stiller in 2002 and read the "Tropic Thunder" script, back when the Les Grossman character didn't even exist. But I'm sure the fact that – according to Stiller – Cruise was the one who came up the idea of including a "gross" studio head as a secondary villain, not too long after his unpleasant experience with Weinstein, was a complete coincidence.

Either way, although Cruise may never divulge who his real-life inspiration was, in light of recent events it's hard not to notice A LOT of similarities between Grossman and Weinstein. For one thing, while Stiller apparently was pushing Cruise to just appear as his normal self in the role, Tom was adamant about hiding his movie star good looks under a mountain of prosthetics, with a special emphasis on "big hands," hairy arms, and voluminous chest hair.
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,496
Earth, 21st Century
I liked this film aside from the score. The music really made it hard for to rewatch. I get that it was supposed to be slow and brooding to fit the story but it just made the film feel slow, regardless of two top notch performances from Tom and Jamie
lol, I just came in here to say that the awesome soundtrack is all I remember about this movie. I think I saw it when I was 15 and I don't remember anything.
 

Deleted member 1120

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,511
So you know how in this movie, Max has to pretend to be Vincent and go get the list at the club from Javier Bardem who is playing a cartel boss or something?
Well that scene was shot in a my hometown at the club el rodeo and the owner of that restaurant was actually working for the cartel.
 

Net_Wrecker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,734
So you know how in this movie, Max has to pretend to be Vincent and go get the list at the club from Javier Bardem who is playing a cartel boss or something?
Well that scene was shot in a my hometown at the club el rodeo and the owner of that restaurant was actually working for the cartel.

If there isn't at least 1 former or active criminal on the cast/crew, it's not a Michael Mann movie.
 

David Addison

Member
Oct 28, 2017
660
Guy on the right looks like an idiot failing to draw his gun.
Yeah but, the whole movie is about terrible decisions. For starters, "frame the cabbie I just met for my killing spree of star witnesses" is the kind of plan that's only viable in a world where security cameras aren't all over Los Angeles.

It's one of the first films shot entirely digitally
A bunch of scenes were filmed on 35 mm.
 

ElyrionX

Member
Jan 3, 2018
270
It's not better than Heat because of two reasons:

1. Tying the story back to the female lawyer was awfully contrived.

2. Final shootout was poorly set up and not believable at all given what we've seen of Cruise's skills earlier in the movie.
 

supernormal

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,140
One of my top 10 films of all time. The atmosphere alone does it for me. The photography itself was very innovative for the time as for the first time, thanks to digital cameras, you could actually capture the ambient light of a city in the night. You'd never seen anything quite like that on film up to that point. I also love the really simple plot, which makes you really focus on the characters which were absolutely great. Vincent was a really great villain who you could root for, and almost relate to.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Heat is THE BEST crime film of all time. Collateral is top 5. Wasn't a fan of the ending and felt that it let the movie down because Jamie Foxx magically becomes the hero who saves the day.
 

shenden

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,287
It's definitely one of the best and one of my absolute favourite movies! I prefer it over Heat any day of the week, the atmosphere in Collateral is just amazing. Also - Mr Cruise made me proud of my grey hair.
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,047
I love the movie. And the last 20 minutes. I don't see Jada Smith as a twist, but more like the film telling us "remember her for a reason"--almost like dramatic irony. Man, Foxx stepping up and going toe to toe with Cruz while still being completely untrained and outgunned is so thrilling.
I can't remember where I read this, but I've seen people complain about how Max outguns Vincent at the end for years, and there's a pretty good reason.

Max is using Vincent's gun, a .45, and Vincent's using the gun from the security guard he killed in the office building, which is a 9mm. Basically, Vincent's gun is powerful enough to pierce the door of the train, the security guard's isn't. You can see this if you pause the shootout at the end. Notice the dents from where the bullets didn't pierce the door from Vincent's side, and the holes where Max's did.


collateralj1ucm.jpg
 
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Chainshada

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,637
Great film, but I came into this thread confusing it with Collateral Damage and wanted to see how the fuck someone would defend that statement.
 

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,668
One of my favorite movies of all time too. I get the ending complaints but as you can see in the above image a couple posts up I think it still works.
 

shintoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,068
Bit of a hot take, but Colaterial is better than Heat. It's a far leaner film where Heat is just too damn long and Heat goes into that watch people shoot at cops minutes, who pose no threat to the villians.

While everything in Colaterial is just so direct, efficent, and never seems to waste it's time with long winded shoot outs.
 

Melubas

Member
Jan 4, 2018
203
I've always loved this Movie, good to see people agree with me. Watched it more than ten times. The club scene and the coyote scene with Audioslave playing is pure bliss. The club scene especially is one of the coolest movie scenes I've ever watched. Tom Cruise is great in this, very talented actor.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
Wasnt Jamie the badguy in Law Abiding Citizen?
I think at first Jamie was going to be the prisoner and Butler would be the lawyer but they switched it.

Supposedly also they were going to film an ending where Butler's character won, but Jamie Foxx refused to show up on set unless his character was the victor at the end. (Or so they say, might be just some old internet hearsay that I remember for whatever reason)
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,662
People have a problem with the ending ?



Its perfection. Dat score... so effing good!
 

Deleted member 11995

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
1,386
Scotland
Such a damn good film. One of my go-to picks, that I just know I'll enjoy no matter what. And yes, the last truly great piece of work from Mann.

The last 20 minutes are perfect, I think. We spend the whole time up till the car flips just watching these two guys get deep into each other's heads, affecting the other's outlook and mentality. Then we watch Max taking the bull by the horns, doing the shit that needs done and acting. While Vincent starts to slip, hesitates and fails to adapt at crucial moments, leading to his failure. It's brilliant, and shot and edited in a fantastic, kinetic, pulsing tempo that builds up to the lights flickering out on that train for a spilt second as each man raises his gun. I fucking love it.

It's not as good as Heat though. C'mon son.
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,662
Such a damn good film. One of my go-to picks, that I just know I'll enjoy no matter what. And yes, the last truly great piece of work from Mann.

The last 20 minutes are perfect, I think. We spend the whole time up till the car flips just watching these two guys get deep into each other's heads, affecting the other's outlook and mentality. Then we watch Max taking the bull by the horns, doing the shit that needs done and acting. While Vincent starts to slip, hesitates and fails to adapt at crucial moments, leading to his failure. It's brilliant, and shot and edited in a fantastic, kinetic, pulsing tempo that builds up to the lights flickering out on that train for a spilt second as each man raises his gun. I fucking love it.

It's not as good as Heat though. C'mon son.

Miami Vice is still better than most genre movies we get today even if it is less than stellar when compared to Mann's earlier work.

Of topic slightly but I still think Mann's best film is Insider. I still keep re watching this scene every now and then. Cant wait for his next film.

 

Deleted member 11995

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
1,386
Scotland
Of topic slightly but I still think Mann's best film is Insider...

The Insider is brilliant, but I don't think he'll ever top Heat. He was on another level with that film. You could write a plot synopsis for Heat and it would sound like the most generic shit imaginable, but he made it the freshest, most unique story about cops and robbers for a good many years.

Personally I love all his films (except The Keep, which I've never seen) and will go to bat for any of them. Including Blackhat.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,070
UK
collateral-2004-tom-cruise-jamie-foxx-pic-1.jpg


Personally, I think it's better than Heat.

Directed by Michael Mann and starring Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx in some career-best performances. A great, simple narrative of an LA cabbie who gets his night hijacked by a contract killer. Cue game of wits (kinda) Great moody soundtrack, cinematography, performances, direction, pretty everything is firing on every cylinder.

Here's one of the best scenes in the film (spoilers!):



Honestly, Vincent is one of the best film villains of the last twenty years and it's so interesting to see the dynamics and ways these two protagonists impact each other over the course of a single night. And watching Tom Cruise go bad is mesmerizing.

You should watch Good Time if you haven't, especially if you like interesting villain-ish main characters (Robert Pattinson). Most Mannish film since Collateral. Michael Mann should watch it to get his mojo back.
 

mocolostrocolos

Attempting to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
970
Incredible movie.

The atmosphere is so unique.

Cruise nails it a as cold blooded assassin and Foxx as a poor little man.
 

RSTEIN

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,868
I can't remember where I read this, but I've seen people complain about how Max outguns Vincent at the end for years, and there's a pretty good reason.

Max is using Vincent's gun, a .45, and Vincent's using the gun from the security guard he killed in the office building, which is a 9mm. Basically, Vincent's gun is powerful enough to pierce the door of the train, the security guard's isn't. You can see this if you pause the shootout at the end. Notice the dents from where the bullets didn't pierce the door from Vincent's side, and the holes where Max's did.


collateralj1ucm.jpg

Look at the bullet patterns--two in the chest and one in the head. That's Vincent's MO thanks to many years of training.

Max on the other hand just sprayed bullets like a maniac. No training.

Earlier in the film, Vincent told Max that he needs to "adapt, improvise". Vincent failed to do just that when it mattered most. Things get interesting when you try to figure out why. Vincent was a machine, more lost and adrift than Max.
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
Resurrected his career? lol, Mission Impossible 3, War of the Worlds, and Collateral were directly before this...Tom Cruise is evergreen.

I totally get people often dismissing Cruise though...hell, I do it ALL THE TIME...what fascinates me about Tom Cruise is, for the last 20 years everytime I see him in a new trailer I roll my eyes hard, shake my head at the thought of him doing that character, and have no interest in seeing the movie.

And every fucking time, by God, when I finally see the movie if Cruise doesn't give 100% and subvert my expectations...every goddam time.

Reluctantly, the dude has won me over. I now admit he is one of the greatest acting movie stars ever. Cause I go into every one of his movies expecting to hate him in it, and im always surprised how good he is.

Props, man. He's won. He's very talented at what he does and always has been.

And yes OP, I love this movie :) (but Heat is better)

My man. I get called out for being a Tom Cruise Stan, but I really feel he has had one of the best acting career of basically anyone, ever. I can be open to arguments that people like Daniel Day Lewis or Meryl Streep are better actors from a purely talent standpoint, but almost no one has starred in a catalogue of movies as impressive as Cruise.

Here's a list of his 'best' movies, starting from the beginning:

Taps (81)
Risky Business (83)
All the Right Moves (83)
Top Gun (86)
The Color of Money (86)
Rain Man (88)
Born of the Fourth of July (89)
Days of Thunder (90)
A Few Good Men (92)
The Firm (93)
Interview with the Vampire (94)
Mission Impossible (96)
Jerry Maguire (96)
Magnolia (99)
MI:2 (00)
Minority Report (02)
Last Samurai (03)
Collateral (04)
War of the Worlds (05)
MI:III (06)
Tropic Thunder (08)
MI: Ghost
Oblivion (13)
Edge of Tomorrow (14)
MI: Rogue (15)
American Made (17)

You can quibble about some of the MI movies but I'd argue they're all good action flicks and they all do well in the box office globally so I included them. And it's fair to say his peak was 83-96, but find me another actor w/ that full a list of quality movies he/she has starred in along with some bonifide all time classics (Risky Business, Top Gun, Color of Money, Rain Man, 4th of July, Few Good Men, Jerry Maguire, Magnolia, Last Samurai)

It sucks that his career gets clouded by the Scientology stuff, but as an actor he is undoubtedly one of the best to ever do it. He also should get credit for being on top of the World Wide Box office before anyone else, from the 80's onwards he always put focus on overseas markets and would promote the shit out of his films outside of the US and to this day it pays off, even Cruise movies that bomb in the US tend to do well overseas because he has such name recognition all over the world. (I bet you didn't know that Mummy (2017) made over $400,000,000 WW w/ 80% of the gross being overseas)

Tom Cruise is the GOAT and I for one can't wait to see how the rest of his career develops, I know there's a few more amazing performances left in him and I just hope he keeps getting roles as he ages (Was pretty bummed Pitt got the Manson movie part over him)

As for the OP, I agree that Collateral is one of my favorite movies and one of my favorite Cruise roles. The only complaint is some of the digital shots look kind of shitty in todays world, but Mann was also one of the first big directors to really embrace digital so growing pains are understandable. From start to finish it's a taught, exciting flick that puts you through a roller coaster of emotions.
 
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Megasoum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,558
Such an amazing movie.

It was also the first time I felt like the city was an actual character in a movie.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
It's the jumping off point of Mann's obsession with digital film and that sucks but yeah, it's very good. Foxx had himself a year in 2004.
 
OP
OP
NTGYK

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
You should watch Good Time if you haven't, especially if you like interesting villain-ish main characters (Robert Pattinson). Most Mannish film since Collateral. Michael Mann should watch it to get his mojo back.
Looks interesting, I'll give it a shot.
 

Deleted member 14649

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,524
What is the verdict on the longer cut of Heat? I've not watched it yet and didn't even realise there was now a nearly 3 hour cut!
 

phantomx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,801
My man. I get called out for being a Tom Cruise Stan, but I really feel he has had one of the best acting career of basically anyone, ever. I can be open to arguments that people like Daniel Day Lewis or Meryl Streep are better actors from a purely talent standpoint, but almost no one has starred in a catalogue of movies as impressive as Cruise.

Here's a list of his 'best' movies, starting from the beginning:

Taps (81)
Risky Business (83)
All the Right Moves (83)
Top Gun (86)
The Color of Money (86)
Rain Man (88)
Born of the Fourth of July (89)
Days of Thunder (90)
A Few Good Men (92)
The Firm (93)
Interview with the Vampire (94)
Mission Impossible (96)
Jerry Maguire (96)
Magnolia (99)
MI:2 (00)
Minority Report (02)
Last Samurai (03)
Collateral (04)
War of the Worlds (05)
MI:III (06)
Tropic Thunder (08)
MI: Ghost
Oblivion (13)
Edge of Tomorrow (14)
MI: Rogue (15)
American Made (17)

You can quibble about some of the MI movies but I'd argue they're all good action flicks and they all do well in the box office globally so I included them. And it's fair to say his peak was 83-96, but find me another actor w/ that full a list of quality movies he/she has starred in along with some bonifide all time classics (Risky Business, Top Gun, Color of Money, Rain Man, 4th of July, Few Good Men, Jerry Maguire, Magnolia, Last Samurai)

It sucks that his career gets clouded by the Scientology stuff, but as an actor he is undoubtedly one of the best to ever do it. He also should get credit for being on top of the World Wide Box office before anyone else, from the 80's onwards he always put focus on overseas markets and would promote the shit out of his films outside of the US and to this day it pays off, even Cruise movies that bomb in the US tend to do well overseas because he has such name recognition all over the world. (I bet you didn't know that Mummy (2017) made over $400,000,000 WW w/ 80% of the gross being overseas)

Tom Cruise is the GOAT and I for one can't wait to see how the rest of his career develops, I know there's a few more amazing performances left in him and I just hope he keeps getting roles as he ages (Was pretty bummed Pitt got the Manson movie part over him)

As for the OP, I agree that Collateral is one of my favorite movies and one of my favorite Cruise roles. The only complaint is some of the digital shots look kind of shitty in todays world, but Mann was also one of the first big directors to really embrace digital so growing pains are understandable. From start to finish it's a taught, exciting flick that puts you through a roller coaster of emotions.

Good post, and great avatar pic :D

Keep up the fight, you are correct about Cruise
 

Fishsnot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,967
Japan
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There's a reason Mann remade that movie.
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For the younger generation sure.
For me I love the 80s vibe/feel and overall energy and atmosphere in LA Takedown. And the acting between Mc Arthur and Plank is much more believable too.
In Heat both De Nero and Pachino seem like two old guys who seemed like they wanted to be somewhere else other than the movie.
I just couldn't buy into their performances.
I recently re watched both back to back on my projector to get the movie experience and I stand by my opinion.




But if you prefer the other then its all good.