Comic-Era: Opinions that will make you lose your comic nerd card

StaffyManasse

Member
Oct 28, 2017
658
Okay let's see if I find anyone who agrees with me.

Extended universe stuff is mostly trash and the actually worthwhile storytelling happens in their solo stories for any given character or a group.
 

Nazo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
928
The X-men (and mutants in general) have always been the weakest part of the Marvel universe and often feels incongruous to the rest of the setting. The only good thing that came out of X-men was Deadpool. They'd be better suited to existing in their own universe.
 

MonadL

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,349
MCU characters are almost all better than their comic book counterparts. Only characters I like the comic versions more are Gamora and Quill.
 

ZattMurdock

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
9,822
Earth 616
  • I never understood Grant Morrison appeal, although his Animal Man and X-Men runs were kinda fun, I think he is extremely overrated. Final Crisis is a joke of a saga;
  • JMS run is revered by Spider-Marriage fans but it was boring as hell other than Romita Jr's art;
  • The last good run that Bendis had was Daredevil. I applaud him for creating Miles Morales, but the best thing that has ever happened to the character was him leaving the book. Also, they have yet to find a voice for the character in the comics, but Into Spider-Verse completely nailed. They should just follow and make him become that, just like when Peter oddly had organic web fluid because of Raimi's films;
  • I'm grateful to Jack Kirby as a creator, but I never understood the appeal of his art. It clearly grew on me, but I'd still take people he influenced - Byrne, Romita Jr., etc. - over his art any day of the week;
  • The Crossing wasn't that bad.
 

ZattMurdock

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
9,822
Earth 616
MCU characters are almost all better than their comic book counterparts. Only characters I like the comic versions more are Gamora and Quill.
I do agree with this. The MCU greatest personal accomplishment to me is made me more a fan of the films than I am of the comics, and I'm a fucking huge fan of the comics for the last 35 years.
 

Neophant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
387
  • Tom King's Batman run is currently better than Scott Snyder's New 52 run
  • Jane Foster Thor is 100x a more interesting character than actual Thor and should have her own book continue
  • Bendis' current Superman is equally as good as his Action Comics run (though I still think Tomasi's run is the best as of recent)
  • Secret Empire and Civil War II are decent enough events to read in trade
  • Countdown to Final Crisis isn't nearly as bad as people think. It's boring and doesn't have the best art, but story-wise it's fine
  • Paul Jenkins and Jae Lee's Inhumans Marvel Knights run deserves to be as highly regarded as TDKR and Watchmen
  • Seven Soldiers of Victory is the greatest work Grant Morrison has ever written
  • The Superior Spider-Man was the best Spider-Man book in the last decade
  • And...Lucifer was a better Vertigo book than Sandman.
 

Sgt. Demblant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,641
France
Spider-Man has the worst quality ratio among the major comic-book characters.
Just so much garbage.
Okay let's see if I find anyone who agrees with me.

Extended universe stuff is mostly trash and the actually worthwhile storytelling happens in their solo stories for any given character or a group.
Sure, I agree. I think a lot of people would.
I liked Ben Reilly as Spider-man.
Of course.
The X-men (and mutants in general) have always been the weakest part of the Marvel universe and often feels incongruous to the rest of the setting. The only good thing that came out of X-men was Deadpool. They'd be better suited to existing in their own universe.
Yes. I want the X-Men to exist on their own as well. Then House of M wouldn't have been needed, the franchise would have continued the natural evolution it was following in the early 00s and maybe they would still be relevant today as a concept.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
706
Mass
The Batman cartoon (the one between the Animated series and Batman the Brave and the Bold) had the right idea of having the batarangs be tech based (or at least, look tech based). It makes Batman's "No killing" policy easier to buy when he isn't hurling knives at people.

It's dumb, I fully admit that, I just liked it.
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,204
Hrm, I don't think I really have one. I'll say this, but I don't think many would find it controversial: Bane is the only significant addition to Batman's villains since Ra's in '71.
 

Aureon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
878
Well Oda is the only one who is writing his own work. Too many writers purposely low ball or exaggerate characters in comics. There will never be an agreement in power levels.
And that is an issue, but it's far from being the only one.
The main issue is that practically everyone only uses their powers in the stupidest, most obvious way. Creative use of old powers adapting to the matchup is very rare, when it should be the main way combat gets resolved.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,686
X-men is my favorite marvel franchise only under Spider-Man, that being said i dont give a FUCK about the dark phoenix saga. I dont care that the last stand or the current film ruined the story because I never cared for the original story.

I have never liked Jean Grey and i saw Emma replacing her as one of the the best things to happen in the early to mid 2000s X books.

I think apocalypse himself is a boring villain.

I absolutely love the Nunzio Defilippis to craig kyle/chris yost run of New X-Men and found it better than the grant morrison New X-Men which is vastly more popular
I’ll agree the Dark Phoenix saga is kind of weak in the comics and overrated, but the ‘Phoenix’ saga on the other hand...loved it. Jean’s initial sacrifice and first encounter with the Phoenix was brilliant and haunting, and the years of manipulation with the Hellfire Club and mystery surrounding her secret power was good comics...

...then the Dark Phoenix conclusion came across as sort of lame and brief. Not sure why those couple issues resonated into this cult classic myself.
 

PrimeBeef

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,949
Batman and the he's got every possible outcome planned for well in advance plot armor is why if find the character dull and lame. The whole wont kill is BS. For every time one of his villains escapes and kills it's on him. He know the dangers of those types, he knows Arkham is not a quality place to keep them since they keep escaping, yet he still puts them there.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,661
Batman was at his best when any mental issues were only hinted at. And when he was neither of of the best martial artists in the world nor the man with an answer to every thing. Morrison's take was novel the first time and got old really quick.
 

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
Events (except Hickman's) suck. They are all about short-term sales even as they falsely claim to CHANGE EVERYTHING FOREVER! They have halted or outright ruined too many good comic runs for me. Fuck event comics.

I don't believe that the ends justify the means. One More Day? I don't care what followed, that shit was character assassinating drivel. Superior Spider-Man? Fun, but the way it was set up and resolved was some of the stupidest, most hand-wavy shit I've ever read.

Seriously,
If Peter and Otto truly switched minds in ASM, then Peter Parker is dead. To this day, Peter Parker, the one we've read in ASM since the 60s, is fucking dead. He died in Otto's body. The Peter we've been reading since is a construct, a copy, a facsimile made up of, not Peter's memories, but Otto's memories of once possessing Peter's memories, IIRC. Then, in another momumentally stupid story, the original dead Peter in Otto's body was resurrected (or merely cloned) only for Otto to enter his mind and kill him again. Original Peter, killed fucking dead by Otto twice.

Meanwhile, Dan Slott be all like "maybe they didn't really switch, except when it matters to the story, like, feel the feelings of Peter dying even as I tell you it wasn't really him or he didn't really die, also this is the real Peter now even as I kill the real real Peter off again, PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE REAL DEAD PETER BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

Really though, if they didn't really switch, if it's been Real Peter brainwashed to think he is Otto all along, then who the fuck cares, all impact is lost. Peter as fake Otto learning lessons that Peter already learned is fucking pointless.



I've been pretty stoked in recent years on the wave of legacy characters we've been getting, particularly in Marvel. I think the idea of filling the shoes of a storied, revered hero makes for an interesting premise and has great story potential. Then, we got a whole shitton of them, virtually all at once. That said, they weren't all successful, and some have been undone or lessened by editorial back-walking. Actually, too many legacy heros have been undone due to editorial mandate. They really are short-sighted and afraid.

Also:
Miles Morales should have stayed in his own universe which was all sorts of fucked up and interesting (IMO), and Ultimate Peter Parker should have stayed dead, as he'd already had an amazing sendoff. Putting Miles in 616 lessens the "legacy" as nobody else remembers or knows of Ultimate Peter, whose shoes Miles fills.

Dick Grayson should have remained Batman after Morrison's run, although this thread indicates to me that perhaps this is not a controversial opinion.

Sam Wilson as Cap was awesome, but, of course, walked back to serve a fucked up and stupid storylinen (by the same writer, no less). I'm excited to see Captain Falcon in the MCU going forward.

Captain Marvel should be Monica.

Jane-Thor was fan-fucking-tastic BUT if they were going to kil her, they should have committed and actually had her stay dead. I don't appreciate crying tears for an eventual copout.

EDIT: Really, I think comics and their characters should end. Short-term story planning in a long-form property really fucks shit up more than it's worth.
 
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Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,366
Events (except Hickman's) suck. They are all about short-term sales even as they falsely claim to CHANGE EVERYTHING FOREVER! They have halted or outright ruined too many good comic runs for me. Fuck event comics.

I don't believe that the ends justify the means. One More Day? I don't care what followed, that shit was character assassinating drivel. Superior Spider-Man? Fun, but the way it was set up and resolved was some of the stupidest, most hand-wavy shit I've ever read.

Seriously,
If Peter and Otto truly switched minds in ASM, then Peter Parker is dead. To this day, Peter Parker, the one we've read in ASM since the 60s, is fucking dead. He died in Otto's body. The Peter we've been reading since is a construct, a copy, a facsimile made up of, not Peter's memories, but Otto's memories of once possessing Peter's memories, IIRC. Then, in another momumentally stupid story, the original dead Peter in Otto's body was resurrected (or merely cloned) only for Otto to enter his mind and kill him again. Original Peter, killed fucking dead by Otto twice.

Meanwhile, Dan Slott be all like "maybe they didn't really switch, except when it matters to the story, like, feel the feelings of Peter dying even as I tell you it wasn't really him or he didn't really die, also this is the real Peter now even as I kill the real real Peter off again, PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE REAL DEAD PETER BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

Really though, if they didn't really switch, if it's been Real Peter brainwashed to think he is Otto all along, then who the fuck cares, all impact is lost. Peter as fake Otto learning lessons that Peter already learned is fucking pointless.
I hope you’re reading the current Amazing Spider-Man by Nick Spencer’s. Because we in the OT have some theories...
 

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
I hope you’re reading the current Amazing Spider-Man by Nick Spencer’s. Because we in the OT have some theories...
OMG I am months behind. I've stayed out of OT to not get spoiled. I'm a teacher though, so give me a day with my wife at work (like Monday) and I'll get caught up because summer. Shit, let's go!
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,987
Oman
Watchman and TDKR weren't that good in the first place and aged like potato salad in the sun
Coolios.
One More Day is ok and folks totally overreact to it

Superman is a fun character that works well when the writer isn't star struck.
My man~ I wholeheartedly agree.

Bruce Wayne is boring as shit and they should have let Dick keep the cowl.
I will stan with you on the 2nd part at least.

Vampire Mom Jubliee was the best development the character recieved since Gen-X and every time she goes back to the core team she gets regressed
I should really read that era of jubilee as i dont know much about the character outside of the usual mainstream.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,987
Oman
I like the fresh take on Peter, not sure Ultimate is “superior”, but otherwise we just became best friends.

Wait, this isnt drunk thread.

Here’s a big one: I hate Wonder Woman. I get that she’s the only icon option in some cases, get why the gay community loves her, all that. But eagle bustier, star panties, invisible jet but eff that she can fly, I wish someone could make her cool.
Gail simone and greg rucka got you covered on wondy. Go read the wondy series from the 2000s which they worked on.
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
3,541
The X-men (and mutants in general) have always been the weakest part of the Marvel universe and often feels incongruous to the rest of the setting. The only good thing that came out of X-men was Deadpool. They'd be better suited to existing in their own universe.
The X books were blockbuster sellers, the strongest part of Marvel's line, and basically the only thing keeping marvel solvent from 1991-2000. The rest of the line (sans spidey...MAYBE) was basically an afterthought.

Not an exaggeration to say that without the X books, there wouldn't be a Marvel right now.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,987
Oman
This thread really boosted my morale as I am rather depressed atm. While I don't agree with some posts, I'll just comment on some per page.
...but first I wanna get this out:

Regardless of whatever Marvel says, Magneto DID get high on drugs, DID want to fuck up the earth's poles all the while wrecking havoc to the city, he DID imprison Dust in a jar while in her sand form, and DID force Jean Grey to awaken her Phoenix powers to in turn kill everyone.
So yeah Magneto took drugs and was an asshat, and nothing Marvel makes up will change my opinion on the matter.

Chris Claremont.

Not sure if I even need to say anything else.
All I can say atm about Claremont is that what little I did read of his work put me to sleep. Too much yap yap yap for my taste (and I am someone who ranks James Roberts' TF run among their top 10 fav. comic runs ever)

Floppies are not worth it. Wait for the trade.
Eh floppies are mostly for 'collectors' IMO, but yeah I get what you mean. Was Morrison's Frankenstein run collected in TPB format; all 4 issues only I mean? Because that is one series I wouldn't mind owning as Floppies :P

Tim Drake is best when he's solo and especially when mostly separated from the Bat-family.
One of the very first TPBs I owned was a Tim Drake and Cass crossover, Bad Blood, and I liked the dynamic between the two. I hadn't read it in years but it introduced me to Cass, my fav. Batgirl, and showed me more of Tim Drake outside the cartoon. I really want to read his series someday when I get the time @[email protected]

Not sure if controversial but Hush sucks. The story line is hot garbage and the character is fucking dumb.
Preeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure that isn't controversial :X
 

Castile

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,983
Comics have better female characters than Manga and are overall just treated better
Jesus this, like when i have to think of my fave female manga characters i have to think for like 10 mins, western comics i can rattle them off the dome in like 5 seconds
What is this hyperbolic nonsense! You must have read a handful of manga to believe this as you are throwing thousands of manga from different genres under the bus. Fucking Shoujo and Josei manga exist, created for and made by women, and your telling me barely any of them has a good female protagonist.

What about Tohru Honda, Usagi Tsukino, Sakura Kunimoto, or Maka Albarn?
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,378
DC's limited series, Elseworlds, and generally their self contained works are far better and more interesting than whatever the current continuity is
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,987
Oman
Remender's Uncanny X-Force is one of the most overrated comics I've ever had the misfortune to read.
I'll let ya know if I can back up your claim once I get to reading through it myself eventually :X

He never was, he never will. All he is a try-hard.
He wishes he was half as cool as Namor.


I'm talking about the Ron Marz run from 10 years ago so...yes? I think?
Mind posting the TPBs of that run please?
 

ArcGospell

Member
Dec 3, 2018
52
The only good thing about Batman is the Bat Family, Bruce is boring on his own.
The stories where the X-Men go to space are always the most boring stories for them.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,987
Oman
Garth Ennis was never that good, that truth has revealed itself to me only recently and it kills me to admit it :'(
Breh you gotta gimme the deets.
GIVE ME THE DETAILS.

People only like Gwen because of the costume, outside of that she is pretty much a nothing burger
Truth.

The only good Brian K Vaughn comic is Private Eye.
What was the name of that one comic he wrote about a trio of friends trying to revive some gold age crime fighter series? That one was really good.

Mark Waid hasn’t had a good run since the Flash
Hell no, he did some good work on Daredevil, Fantasic 4, Irredeemable and Incorruptible, to name a few.