I much rather we talk in depth about comics instead of fuckin...anime and expensive statues and LordofLore posting every Tom King tweet
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COMICS!!!|OT| April 2019 | Legendary AF
- Thread starter Messi
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Aside from the handful of "you're reading it wrong" drive-bys, it's been really interesting reading people's takes on King over the past day. It's nice to see some actual comics discussion and not just a bunch of embedded tweets and anime/manga stuff for a change
Exactly. You beat me to it
Exactly. You beat me to it
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Do wanna apologize to Weiss and TaleSpun for being so verbally upset. Been adjusting to a new work schedule and was really tired when posting. Got cranky over funny pages. Love this community and y'alls thoughts and opinions are a part of what make it my fav place to read and talk mess about comics. <3 <3
Yeah, sorry if I was being overly dismissive it just gets very... tiring reading people react to things like Heroes in Crisis when it is very obvious that they just reacted to a plot summary or a random page here or there, which results in a different experience than actually reading the book with the needed context (I know some people who have interpreted it differently than me in this thread have actually read it). And with Tom King being a very controversial figure you get actual criticism, as people in this thread have posted, mixed in with some pretty obsessively hyperbolic crap.
tl;dr there's absolutely no way I'm stepping that thread in OT.
tl;dr there's absolutely no way I'm stepping that thread in OT.
I really can't have a take on Tom King as a whole only because I've only read Vision and Omega Men. I didn't like the former as much as the latter, but I also read Vision as it released as opposed to Omega Men in trade. I've been collecting Heroes in Crisis but haven't read it.
I don't have the same issues with Tom King others have. Though I did find both of those to be almost too dark for me at points. I think it's super fucked up that the one dog is just chilling with the Visions like it's just okay.
titans should have been the book where he dealt with that shit, but no instead we get the genius idea of having him die every other issue.
wally being the character with truama is gunna be his single definiting characterist from here on out, just like how roy harper is a junkie and nothing more.
It baffles me how they just don't know what to do with Roy Harper. It really does. Like they just can't figure that shit out. He's been around for decades and y'all telling me he has NOTHING?
After reading Ostrander's Spectre run made me realize how weird DC treats the Spectre, and to the lesser extent Jim Corrigan, sometimes. At one hand, he is supposed to be a Golden Age Superhero with history being a part of a group of superheroes during that age, but then they use him as "God's Vengeance" in more modern times. Ostrander's run really plays with both concepts since Jim Corrigan was the Spectre at the time and has that history with those Golden Age heroes.
Been catching up on some of my Don Rosa backlog. He has his formula down so well. Start up with a basic premise and build to this crescendo of absurdity. Like watching a magician paint himself into a corner and then pull a disappearing act while finishing up that last spot of painting. All while being faithful to his character and their voices.
Still waiting on you to buy me these collections, friendBeen catching up on some of my Don Rosa backlog. He has his formula down so well. Start up with a basic premise and build to this crescendo of absurdity. Like watching a magician paint himself into a corner and they pull a disappearing act while finishing up that last spot of painting. All while being faithful to his character and their voices.
I need to get these.Been catching up on some of my Don Rosa backlog. He has his formula down so well. Start up with a basic premise and build to this crescendo of absurdity. Like watching a magician paint himself into a corner and then pull a disappearing act while finishing up that last spot of painting. All while being faithful to his character and their voices.
Anyways let's talk about comics. Some thoughts of this week's ones:
ASM #20: The "twist" for the robots is so obvious I don't even think it can be counted as a twist. The pacing is a bit slow for my taste, but otherwise it is good. I've been enjoying this arc way more than I expected
Avengers #18: Mephisto really is everywhere now. Liked the squadron and the light jabs at DC, especially how not-Superman is written. Wonder how their tussle with the avengers would go. I do miss defenders Nighthawk though
SSM #5: Mister demonhands got a huge upgrade, damn. Otto totally not understanding some stuff is not first date material is funny, and his interactions with Strange are nice. It does beg the question of how did Strange not find out about Otto when he was in parker's body, but whatever
JLD #10: Again, didn't like Nabu becoming full evil (and fully committing to order>>>humanity), and man Kent is just kinda wasted as of now. Also, the betrayal was obvious. The team is so over their heads right now and basically hasn't done anything right beyond freeing Khalid. The realm of order is also looking more...irregular than I expected
Dial H #2: Story-wise not much happened, but I love the homages to manga and the jokes. The art style changes works so well and looks beautiful
ASM #20: The "twist" for the robots is so obvious I don't even think it can be counted as a twist. The pacing is a bit slow for my taste, but otherwise it is good. I've been enjoying this arc way more than I expected
Avengers #18: Mephisto really is everywhere now. Liked the squadron and the light jabs at DC, especially how not-Superman is written. Wonder how their tussle with the avengers would go. I do miss defenders Nighthawk though
SSM #5: Mister demonhands got a huge upgrade, damn. Otto totally not understanding some stuff is not first date material is funny, and his interactions with Strange are nice. It does beg the question of how did Strange not find out about Otto when he was in parker's body, but whatever
JLD #10: Again, didn't like Nabu becoming full evil (and fully committing to order>>>humanity), and man Kent is just kinda wasted as of now. Also, the betrayal was obvious. The team is so over their heads right now and basically hasn't done anything right beyond freeing Khalid. The realm of order is also looking more...irregular than I expected
Dial H #2: Story-wise not much happened, but I love the homages to manga and the jokes. The art style changes works so well and looks beautiful
You mean these ones right here?
I'll ship them sometime. In 2050 or so.
You are a duck of good taste my good sir.You mean these ones right here?
I'll ship them sometime. In 2050 or so.
While we were vaguely talking about death of the author and literary criticism of comics - I do want to point people in the direction of Al Ewing's excellent Immortal Hulk work blog, where he posts a lot of panels and sequences that sort of underpin the themes he's trying to explicitly present. Like, obviously older writers and artists did not intend, in so many words, for Hulk to represent toxic masculinity... but when you take the character as a whole it's so easy to draw these throughlines.
That's one thing I do love about King despite his missteps and iffy execution and underlying authorial issues is that he's very comfortable putting characters through a cool thematic lens. Mister Miracle - a character who "defies death" - through the lens of self-harm and suicide is brilliant. Vision as the center of a story about performative normalcy is brilliant.
That's one thing I do love about King despite his missteps and iffy execution and underlying authorial issues is that he's very comfortable putting characters through a cool thematic lens. Mister Miracle - a character who "defies death" - through the lens of self-harm and suicide is brilliant. Vision as the center of a story about performative normalcy is brilliant.
Looking back on Vision, a book that contained stuff about how the idyllic American family life isn't real during a time when that kind of image and ideal was being used as a platform for a presidential campaign is pretty interesting.
What if I wanted Strange negotiating with Eternity
yeah it was great
What do you think Kyle's lens was in omega man? I'm not familiar enough with the character to identify it
Edit: Oops, DP
from dc's POV he's unnecessary when they have already have an adult archer. same goes for all the original titans pretty much.
A peacekeeping soldier caught up in a holy war, but he's also talking about his own faith the entire time.
I read Omega Men as about proactive heroism - like, that "being a hero" is kind of a fool's errand. And in that sense I just sort of read Kyle as a "generic GL," and GLs as cops and/or soldiers. But like you, I don't really know Kyle that well. From what I understand his unique characteristics don't come through much in Omega Men so I kinda suspect Tom King doesn't either...
The undercarriage of Omega Men, I think, is that heroism = "policing" = US foreign intervention, and that's where people have issues with it thematically. It's a critique of US foreign intervention, allegorically, in a sci-fi Lawrence of Arabia story, but it hinges on the idea that the intentions of policing are ultimately good.
I love Omega Men, but it is problematic in the sense that you could probably insert any GL into Kyle's spot and it would work. Only reason it does work with Kyle is that he's a White Lantern (which isn't even necessary it just helps for the cool Omega Lantern scene) and the religious part which I think Kyle has mentioned being christian only vaguely prior to Omega Men? Maybe? Like his personality isn't really very Kyle, I guess? It's hard to say. It's not why I like Kyle, but Omega Men is so good that it's hard to condemn.
most were pretty fun stories, just, having fun with the whole merging thing. the actual "Infinity Warps" 2-issue book that was an anthology wasn't very great, though
There is really nothing of Kyle that is significant to the overall plot. The White Lantern -> Omega Lantern transition was a neat trick, but I'm firmly convinced that for the first portion of the book King had no idea Kyle was the White Lantern and what exactly that meant. His religious beliefs added an interesting bend to the story, but that could have easily been left out and nothing really would have changed. You could have used any GL and kept the same basic story beats.
That said, I think a different/better writer could use the same structure of the story but tell it through the lense of Simon Baz and make it all the more compelling. How would an Arab American Muslim man handle a conflict that so closely mirrors Western interventionalism in the modern Middle East? But you would need someone with a deft touch to tell that story and that isn't King. Maybe someone like Saladin Ahmed or Priest would have the chops to pull this off and not have it come across as majorly problematic.
In regards to religion, it was brought up several times in Winnick's run. If I remember correctly, Kyle said he didn't even celebrate Halloween as a kid because his mother was such a devout Irish-Catholic.
As to everything else, I don't think any other veteran GL could fit in that role. Maybe John but it would be less of moral quagmire for him given his military background and take charge attitude. I don't see the stuff with Kalista being as effective with anyone other than Kyle though...
Going
Depending on what King does in #9 Wally will probably get the New Warriors and Hank Pym treatment regardless of what the intent was.
Baz would have been PERFECT. He was so bland to me until that crossover where he and Guy teamed up to keep High Father from getting the Life Equation or whatever. Basically quoting the Quran to counter Guy's borderline suicidal tendencies.
I should read more Kyle. I didn't really know that. Kyle was always the creative who embraced fear rather than be absent of it.
Quick question, is it better to read stuff in published order? If so, is there a complete list of Marvel and DC stuff anywhere?
Have a whole load of comics now, and not sure whether it's ok to read out of order (in order to understand stuff and avoid spoilers).
E.g, does Hickman's Avengers come before Secret Wars, but after Spider-Verse, and does Power man and Iron Fist come before Secret Empire etc.
And DC wise for example, does Infinite Crisis take place between Batman by Loeb and Batman by Morrison.
Sorry if that sounds stupid.
Have a whole load of comics now, and not sure whether it's ok to read out of order (in order to understand stuff and avoid spoilers).
E.g, does Hickman's Avengers come before Secret Wars, but after Spider-Verse, and does Power man and Iron Fist come before Secret Empire etc.
And DC wise for example, does Infinite Crisis take place between Batman by Loeb and Batman by Morrison.
Sorry if that sounds stupid.
between this and Ric Grayson Didio is probably doing backflips down the halls in Burbank
The only time I would ever worry about that is reading a long run by one author. Like with your Hickman example you'd want to Fantastic Four, Avengers/New Avengers, Secret Wars. Otherwise it's much easier to just read whatever grabs you. You can always ask here or wiki if you have questions about ancillary events mentioned in what you're reading.
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