COMICS!!!|OT| August 2019 | DON'T MAKE IT TOO GAY!

Is Xavier the Maker?

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 29.6%
  • No

    Votes: 69 70.4%

  • Total voters
    98
  • Poll closed .

Ross62

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,328
What can be said that hasn’t already been
And you don't need to whine because someone brought up a comic from a writer you like and they're voicing their disappointment. That brings absolutely nothing of value to this thread.
I didn’t “whine” because they voiced they’re opinion on the comment. As I’ve said numerous times, I think it a fucking terrible comic. I “whined” because the discourse around said comic turns personal and fucking toxic every time. It brings absolutely nothing of value to this thread.
 
Last edited:

Wanderer5

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,334
Somewhere.
I didn’t “whine” because they voiced they’re opinion on the comment. As I’ve said numerous times, I think it a fucking terrible comic. I “whined” because the discourse around said comic turns personal and fucking toxic every time. It brings absolutely nothing of value to this thread.
Saying, "Oh my god, here we go again" as it was here is not really helping through. Feel like that is something that just ends up leading to toxic shit honestly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
260

I read recently read the first volume of a comic called Iland that I had picked up about a year and a half ago. It's a quick read since vol 1 is really more like an extended first issue but I found it to be a pretty sophisticated book in the way it tells its story. I bought it at Gosh comics when I was in London but you can read it online here

I'm just gonna highlight some parts I thought were particularly nice
This is part of the first opening pages. The background is in color but the characters are in BW. This is as decompressed as two pages can get but I think the comic sets the easy going tone of the story well here. The way the rhythm of the dialogue is accentuated by the paneling is very chefs kiss.

The two boys are shown in two panels each and the way the page is laid out, your eyes are drawn to the bottom right. The panel the boys appear in are even overlaid and infringe on the space of the panel the girl appears in. The girl appears again below but as far away as possible from the focus of the art. The story actually focuses on her but I think this was a really interesting way of depicting the main character of the issue considering the events that follow.





It’s more evident in the later pages but Tsouknidas is working digitally. his textures, colors and line work emulate traditional art without overdoing it. His gestures really bring it all together. I’m loving the choice to keep the characters in greyscale and background in color




In the story, the boys end up not jumping into the water. The girl who was off focus jumps and becomes the central character from here on. She sees something in the water and decides to do a deep dive. I don't really want to get into the story much since I dont want to spoil it and I think plot is pretty much overemphasized when people talk about comics. I do wanna talk about how effective the creators are at telling a story and these two pages do a really good job of it. Each panel is so purposeful in driving action forward and presenting it in such an appealing way. Just look

In the first similarly sized panels and equally oriented panels, the character stays central while the environment changes and builds focus of direction. In the 4th panel, the character rises and at the far end of the panel we see a location of interest (the mystery door). In the 5th panel, we see the character exit the water the decided to explore deeply in the 1st panel. This is really good page structure! In the last panel we see a resolution to the goal presented in the first panel as driven by the previous page (which I forgot to take a pic and Im too lazy to go and add it now) But now we have a new interest! This drives the overall story forward for us as a reader!



Lets see this work again! In the first panel we see the character start their journey to our goal (the door/light we see). It also re-situates us. The 2nd panel achieves the same thing so one of these is a little extraneous but Im more than happy to see a comic not strip down every page to purely essential panels as I think this is too slavishly followed in western comics.

In the middle panels we see the character become interested in opening the door and struggling to do so. This is the basis of storytelling. The atom of conventional storytelling. The character wants something and is finding difficulty in doing so.

You might say "hey why are you bringing this up its literally like 2 panels." Yeah thats true! But think of storytelling as a pyramid The overall story isnt going to be interesting to you if the chapters arent interesting by themselves and those chapters arent gonna be interesting if those pages arent interesting and those pages arent interesting if the panels dont do stuff thats interesting. Panels that depict the character deciding to do something and then struggling to do so in the next panel is a building block of good storytelling in comics.

Also note how the story is effectively driven by the last panel! The character has succeed in opening the door and resolving our most recent problem. But now we are given a new interesting nugget of info. In this secretive cavern there is already someone there, but there off panel so we are left wondering who they are. This lingering question innately makes us want to continue the story and turn the page.

One other thing that makes this comic work so well and specially in these two pages is the artist's focus on planes so clarify action. A lot of times with greyscale comics, you might see comics accidentally muddying up their work by using greys that are too close in value. Tsouknidas avoids all that by paring it down to 3 values essentially. One midscale grey in addition to black and white. As you can see, the character's skin is depicted without any grey whenever he background is grey and background elements typically are blocked out in large swaths of black with some some strokes providing texture and additional form.


Anyway, this is a good comic and I wouldnt be surprised to see this creative team do something super interesting down the road
 

Neo Hartless

Member
Jan 8, 2019
167
Just finished my reread of Jonathan Hickman’s Avengers run.

So epic, guys.

Although it did kinda suck that Cap and Tony were completely absent for Secret Wars. The series started being abou their duality. It should have given that arc closure.

But damn it if it isn’t good comics I don’t know what else is.

So hyped for PoX #2 tomorrow!
 

psychbat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,309
Just finished my reread of Jonathan Hickman’s Avengers run.

So epic, guys.

Although it did kinda suck that Cap and Tony were completely absent for Secret Wars. The series started being abou their duality. It should have given that arc closure.

But damn it if it isn’t good comics I don’t know what else is.

So hyped for PoX #2 tomorrow!
Their arc closed with the last issue of Avengers. Neither side was completely right or completely wrong and they both died for their ideals wrapped around their own egos. If there was a solution (which there wasn't) it was too late, they fought and died while the Earth needed saving, futile as it was.

Damn good comics.
 

Neo Hartless

Member
Jan 8, 2019
167
Mine is the two issue arc with Thor and Hyperion taking care of the zebra kids while contemplating the nature of godhood.

But my favorite moment overall is when Thor is about to fight the Beyonders one last time but can’t lift the Unworthy Mjolnir.

The stars of the show are, of course, Namor, Black Panther and Bobby.
 

Neo Hartless

Member
Jan 8, 2019
167
Their arc closed with the last issue of Avengers. Neither side was completely right or completely wrong and they both died for their ideals wrapped around their own egos. If there was a solution (which there wasn't) it was too late, they fought and died while the Earth needed saving, futile as it was.

Damn good comics.
Oh I agree with that. It’s just that I think that, since it all ends up tied in a neat little bow, I think it was lacking a final moment between those two.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,687
My favorite was Infinite Avengers, the arc during Original Sin. Funny how prescient that seems now, given Powers of X especially.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,178
Finished PoX #2

My eyes continue to glaze over in total indifference to everything after X^1


But lemme tell you, those first time periods? THATS SOME HYPE ASS SHIT
 
Last edited:

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,845
Char's revenge story is legendary! You should watch Zeta Gundam after that. Main charachter, Kamille, sucks shit but everyone else rules and Char is incognito helping an anti-fascist resistance front. Zeta Gundam is THE REALEST. (except when it isn't and kinda wack but it's more real than wack so it's k)
I seem to recall the exact opposite. Kamille was some punk kid who got dragged into a war but he was exceptional and everyone treated him like shit.
 

SpaceSong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,074
I seem to recall the exact opposite. Kamille was some punk kid who got dragged into a war but he was exceptional and everyone treated him like shit.
Your memory of Zeta is bad if you recall Emma being terrible and Kamille somehow being reasonable... He blames everyone for his own actions except himself. He ends up where he is by choice because he keeps running away from everything and anyone trying to get him to show some responsibility. It is too late before he realizes what he's done... Like... It is nearly 30 episodes before he shows anything resembling some self reflection.

His character is shrill in the sense that he doesn't understand cause and effect of his own impulsive, stupid actions! He's far worse than "some punk kid." He is actively a piece of shit who comes to the exact wrong conclusions constantly. It's part of what makes Zeta unique. The main character isn't just some relatable every man. He's kind of a moody idiot everyone else reacts to.
 

Porl

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,638
Spain
You should get better nights. Mine go until morning.
Underrated post


I read recently read the first volume of a comic called Iland that I had picked up about a year and a half ago. It's a quick read since vol 1 is really more like an extended first issue but I found it to be a pretty sophisticated book in the way it tells its story. I bought it at Gosh comics when I was in London but you can read it online here

I'm just gonna highlight some parts I thought were particularly nice
This is part of the first opening pages. The background is in color but the characters are in BW. This is as decompressed as two pages can get but I think the comic sets the easy going tone of the story well here. The way the rhythm of the dialogue is accentuated by the paneling is very chefs kiss.

The two boys are shown in two panels each and the way the page is laid out, your eyes are drawn to the bottom right. The panel the boys appear in are even overlaid and infringe on the space of the panel the girl appears in. The girl appears again below but as far away as possible from the focus of the art. The story actually focuses on her but I think this was a really interesting way of depicting the main character of the issue considering the events that follow.





It’s more evident in the later pages but Tsouknidas is working digitally. his textures, colors and line work emulate traditional art without overdoing it. His gestures really bring it all together. I’m loving the choice to keep the characters in greyscale and background in color




In the story, the boys end up not jumping into the water. The girl who was off focus jumps and becomes the central character from here on. She sees something in the water and decides to do a deep dive. I don't really want to get into the story much since I dont want to spoil it and I think plot is pretty much overemphasized when people talk about comics. I do wanna talk about how effective the creators are at telling a story and these two pages do a really good job of it. Each panel is so purposeful in driving action forward and presenting it in such an appealing way. Just look

In the first similarly sized panels and equally oriented panels, the character stays central while the environment changes and builds focus of direction. In the 4th panel, the character rises and at the far end of the panel we see a location of interest (the mystery door). In the 5th panel, we see the character exit the water the decided to explore deeply in the 1st panel. This is really good page structure! In the last panel we see a resolution to the goal presented in the first panel as driven by the previous page (which I forgot to take a pic and Im too lazy to go and add it now) But now we have a new interest! This drives the overall story forward for us as a reader!



Lets see this work again! In the first panel we see the character start their journey to our goal (the door/light we see). It also re-situates us. The 2nd panel achieves the same thing so one of these is a little extraneous but Im more than happy to see a comic not strip down every page to purely essential panels as I think this is too slavishly followed in western comics.

In the middle panels we see the character become interested in opening the door and struggling to do so. This is the basis of storytelling. The atom of conventional storytelling. The character wants something and is finding difficulty in doing so.

You might say "hey why are you bringing this up its literally like 2 panels." Yeah thats true! But think of storytelling as a pyramid The overall story isnt going to be interesting to you if the chapters arent interesting by themselves and those chapters arent gonna be interesting if those pages arent interesting and those pages arent interesting if the panels dont do stuff thats interesting. Panels that depict the character deciding to do something and then struggling to do so in the next panel is a building block of good storytelling in comics.

Also note how the story is effectively driven by the last panel! The character has succeed in opening the door and resolving our most recent problem. But now we are given a new interesting nugget of info. In this secretive cavern there is already someone there, but there off panel so we are left wondering who they are. This lingering question innately makes us want to continue the story and turn the page.

One other thing that makes this comic work so well and specially in these two pages is the artist's focus on planes so clarify action. A lot of times with greyscale comics, you might see comics accidentally muddying up their work by using greys that are too close in value. Tsouknidas avoids all that by paring it down to 3 values essentially. One midscale grey in addition to black and white. As you can see, the character's skin is depicted without any grey whenever he background is grey and background elements typically are blocked out in large swaths of black with some some strokes providing texture and additional form.


Anyway, this is a good comic and I wouldnt be surprised to see this creative team do something super interesting down the road
Oooh this looks really cool
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,845
Your memory of Zeta is bad if you recall Emma being terrible and Kamille somehow being reasonable... He blames everyone for his own actions except himself. He ends up where he is by choice because he keeps running away from everything and anyone trying to get him to show some responsibility. It is too late before he realizes what he's done... Like... It is nearly 30 episodes before he shows anything resembling some self reflection.

His character is shrill in the sense that he doesn't understand cause and effect of his own impulsive, stupid actions! He's far worse than "some punk kid." He is actively a piece of shit who comes to the exact wrong conclusions constantly. It's part of what makes Zeta unique. The main character isn't just some relatable every man. He's kind of a moody idiot everyone else reacts to.
I remember his parents dying early on and Emma being a total bitch about it.

In any case, much like MSG that's an odd reading of Kamille's character. It's always funny that people expect so much from these pilots who are vastly younger than anyone else in the show in terms of maturity, even though they're already pulling their weight and then some as an ace pilot. Everyone's looking at him and Amuro sideways despite the fact that an entire ship full of people probably shouldn't be counting on a 15 year old to save their ass time and again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,968
Jumping back into the comic game with Hickman taking over XMen, and it’s been a huge lapse in time for me so I’m doing what I can to fill in the gaps. Already read through Grand Design, Adevntures of Scott and Jean, House of M mainline. Planning to still do New Mutants, XMen Academy, Messiah Saga, Gillens Uncanny run, Secret Wars and whatever else I can stumble on So far House of M was my favorite story. Short, impactful, and still had me turned a few times despite knowing the overall theme.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,912
I know we aren't talking shit about my boy Kamille in here.

Anyway, on the topic of Hickman's Marvel run. I always thought of Secret Wars as not only the climax of his Avengers/New Avengers run, but also his Fantastic Four/FF run and with that in mind I see why he choose to focus more on the Reed/Doom stuff instead of Tony/Steve. The only thing that stuck out to me as kind of bad when I reread it recently was him bringing back Validator like she(It?) was about to be a big deal and then doing fucking nothing with that character.

Speaking of Avengers what's the general opinion on Jason Aaron's Avengers run? I'm reading it right now and I'm honestly really enjoying it.
 
OP
OP
Messi

Messi

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,165
So after watching Linkara today I decided to check out Heroes in Crisis... And oh my God. While some of the testimonials were cool, it was a massive disappointment.

And that ending... Really what was the point of this comic except showing that yes PTSD exists and to turn Ivy into a literal plant?
They are retconning plant Ivy in issue one of Harley and Ivy lol
 

ElNarez

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,291
look, I'd spend all day arguing with your wack-ass Heroes in Crisis takes but it's the time of the season for Hickman, it was some good good shit

on first read I see moira's plan as "getting the machines to collect everything about the mutants, then ascend to a Phalanx with the data, and some way somehow take over" and that's a super intriguing idea, but also I may have misread the whole goddamn thing
 

bardo

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,599
on first read I see moira's plan as "getting the machines to collect everything about the mutants, then ascend to a Phalanx with the data, and some way somehow take over" and that's a super intriguing idea, but also I may have misread the whole goddamn thing
Yeah, that's a good take.
 

SpaceSong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,074
I remember his parents dying early on and Emma being a total bitch about it.

In any case, much like MSG that's an odd reading of Kamille's character. It's always funny that people expect so much from these pilots who are vastly younger than anyone else in the show in terms of maturity, even though they're already pulling their weight and then some as an ace pilot. Everyone's looking at him and Amuro sideways despite the fact that an entire ship full of people probably shouldn't be counting on a 15 year old to save their ass time and again.
Okay, this frustrates me. Because I feel like you're assuming people with issues on this reading of Kamille are unable to grasp that as a reason for him being the way he is. This doesn't work, though, when the show time and time again points to that not being the case at all. This is a gross misread of Kamille. Sure, mecha shows tend to star teens who are either emotionally not ready for what their reality is or are forced into situations that are beyond their emotional understanding. That works as an excuse for Aumuro. But Kamille is on a whole other level of toxic stupidity and vacuumous causality he refuses to accept as his fault when in fact, Zeta Gundam's first several episodes opens up on a lot of shit that is completely his fault!

Which was the point. He was a counterpoint to Aumuro who ends up being likable and doing some healing by the end where Kamille is a counterpoint who has very few redeeming qualities and ends up a vegettable because he can't let go of his self righteous notions. Kamille's story is a cautionary tale of excessive pride and refusal of accountability. Kamille has the same support group as Aumuro had, essentially and constantly puts blame for things that happen as the result of his actions onto others. None more egregious than what happens to his mother.

There is no reason to make excuses for him. He gets better towards the end but straight up, man. You are wrong if you think anything he does is something that could be construed as acceptable or admissible as a side effect of him being a teenager. The show acknowledges these faults through Emma. But you're putting that back on her and her somehow being the one in the wrong to the point of calling her a bitch? That's... not good. She was rightfully admonishing him because people were dying who were ending up in places they didn't need to be because he kept running and ending up in spaces he had no business being. You think someone's going to watch a person do that and not chew them out? Especially in a high stress war time? Emma was right!
 
Oct 25, 2017
651
White Trees is not bad. But i really don't see how they can wrap this up in one more issue.
The story seems like something that would take 6 normal sized issues to resolve.

And yeah, those last few pages reminded me that i still haven't read the latest volume of SEX.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,286
Tampa, Fl
They are retconning plant Ivy in issue one of Harley and Ivy lol
Okay that's kind of funny.

Didn't realize Heroes in Crisis was a sore spot for some so I apologize for that.

In the positive I will say that I was engaged through the whole thing and never found it boring. And as I said I did like the parts of the heroes sharing there issues. Superman, Harley, Batgirl and Donna Troy all stuck out at me a lot.

My problem was the resolution of the mystery. It just felt like the wrong character to use and to have Ivy be the only character to comeback felt wrong.

And I like Tom King's work a lot usually and 60% of this book was really good. I'd have honestly like it more if they dumped the murder mystery and have it be more of a "who leaked it" sort of thing.
 
OP
OP
Messi

Messi

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,165
Okay that's kind of funny.

Didn't realize Heroes in Crisis was a sore spot for some so I apologize for that.

In the positive I will say that I was engaged through the whole thing and never found it boring. And as I said I did like the parts of the heroes sharing there issues. Superman, Harley, Batgirl and Donna Troy all stuck out at me a lot.

My problem was the resolution of the mystery. It just felt like the wrong character to use and to have Ivy be the only character to comeback felt wrong.

And I like Tom King's work a lot usually and 60% of this book was really good. I'd have honestly like it more if they dumped the murder mystery and have it be more of a "who leaked it" sort of thing.
Well apparently King pitched the idea and was then told by DC what characters to use. That sounds like a fucked up way to write a story.

This was the original Harley and Ivy cover for #1



This week they updated it to a cover by Janin instead where Ivy looks normal again. #2 has the same look.

 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
1,286
Tampa, Fl
Ah. So she's still green skinned and plant based more than likely. They are just not using the wierd musculature look from the comic. Basically just bringing her more in line with her per-New 52 look.
 

Astro Cat

Member
Mar 29, 2019
227
I've been following HoX/PoX pretty well until today and PoX 2 came along to confuse the hell out of me lol.
Seeing Apocalypse was hype and I'm still super curious about all the X2 stuff but when the Phalanx got involved I'll admit I was super lost.
I had to read the other issues of both series at least 2 or 3 times to get a grasp on them, so I'm hoping this is the same. My main takeaway for now is Silva draws an incredible Magneto.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,178
Sword Master was decent, still don't like the difference between how he's written in the back up(Or that fucking dumbass name), but at least the original story isn't a fucked mess like Aero.
 
May 24, 2019
952
I've been following HoX/PoX pretty well until today and PoX 2 came along to confuse the hell out of me lol.
Seeing Apocalypse was hype and I'm still super curious about all the X2 stuff but when the Phalanx got involved I'll admit I was super lost.
I had to read the other issues of both series at least 2 or 3 times to get a grasp on them, so I'm hoping this is the same. My main takeaway for now is Silva draws an incredible Magneto.
For the Y1k stuff, we're just being shown the ultimate state of the machines. I don't think it really means anything yet. What the Y100 guys do with what they've gained will probably pay off in whatever's happening at the end of time, but right now that part's just matter of fact:
The big machine gods have come to judge whether to take future kid Xavier's planet/society into themselves, or mark it for destruction.

It's already clear that the individual HoX n PoX trades aren't gonna be able to be read alone, or at least PoX won't be.
 
Last edited:

Canucked

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,265
I went to read the X book today and I forgot my tablet on this stupid work trip too.

Literally comics free for three days. I can't do it on my phone, feels weird to me.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,803
For the Y1k stuff, we're just being shown the ultimate state of the machines. It don't think it really means anything yet. What the Y100 guys do with what they've gained will probably pay off in whatever's happening at the end of time, but right now that part's just matter of fact:
The big machine gods have come to judge whether to take future kid Xavier's planet/society into themselves, or mark it for destruction.

It's already clear that the individual HoX n PoX trades aren't gonna be able to be read alone, or at least PoX won't be.
PoX is basically unfuckingreadable on its own.
HoX / PoX to be read side by side you mean?