Community Spotlight: Kiseki/Trails Community|OT|Familiar faces~, Zemurian places—SPOILERTAGS OR DIE!

citrusred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
644
I liked chapter 8 in SC a lot to be honest. The hidden sidequests were great, especially
recapturing the school
were a lot of fun.
 

Bran-dono

Member
Aug 22, 2018
861
So Trails and Cold Steel both had
Anguis hidden in plain sight (Weismann and Vita

So will Zero/Ao have the same? I already have theories on who they might be.
 

Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
please tell me it gets better.
some fucking random other realm, tita appearing out of nowhere, unlocking memories _that she just fucking had a month ago or smth_ not to mention why the fuck she needs to see that anyway, and those memories only she can view...
what the fuck am i playing, is this trails? does this make any sense?
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,219
South Carolina
please tell me it gets better.
some fucking random other realm, tita appearing out of nowhere, unlocking memories _that she just fucking had a month ago or smth_ not to mention why the fuck she needs to see that anyway, and those memories only she can view...
what the fuck am i playing, is this trails? does this make any sense?
You'll see. What's been said about the game (Kevin's Story, full-series lore, and side vignettes of familiar characters) is very true and tied into all of this.

As for the doors, that's actually for OUR benefit as it would be awkward to do it elsewhere. It's freeing, really, and really skillfully done.



And there are stories that MUST be told.
 

stone616

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,346
I disagree strongly with that statement. The unrelenting willingness to slow things down, let things sink in, and focus on the little things is why I unconditionally love this series. I wouldn't be this invested into this series if they weren't paced the way they are.
I find the pacing of these games to be pretty frustrating. I liken them to something like LOST where the narrative is always throwing things at you that you're either kept in the dark about or have to wait to get answers to.

There's constantly stuff like two people having a conversation with all the context removed so the player is left in the dark. Both the characters know what they're talking about but all the vital information is carefully removed from what they're saying to keep you from fully understanding what they're talking about on the first playthrough at least. In fact most of the time the focus shifts to characters who aren't the main party it's to do just that.

Also like LOST at the end they cram a bunch of stuff in to try to address things. Almost every game in this series has a section at the end of it that crams too many events into a short amount of time and if there's a sequel you're left wanting more but once you start playing that sequel it's back to that slow pacing long-windedness until the end of that game where the process repeats.

Part of the reason I like Trails in the Sky SC so much is because you only have to deal with the slow pacing for half the game. The second half of the game moves very fast and you're constantly fed interesting things.

The pacing of these games probably gets in the way of them breaking through to mainstream success and foster a for hardcore fans only atmosphere. These are the type of games the common gamer will pick up and end up dropping because there are long stretches of slow pacing and they may never pick the game up again. I've gifted FC to a few people that dropped it citing it being boring to them.
 

Solarc

Member
Sep 24, 2018
159
I've always been of the mind that the parts where stuff gets crazy and shit goes down should be seen as an added bonus to the whole experience, not just the entire reason why you play the games in the first place, otherwise, yeah, you're probably not gonna have the most enjoyable time.
 

Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
i'll keep going with 3rd, but like, everything feels so out of place. i dont like the entire setting.
the only thing that keeps me going right now is characters and relevance for CS3
if you'd tell me nothing in this game will matter for CS3/CS4 i'd stop playing it right away
Gilbert is SO overused its annoying
 
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Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
it'd be great if lore came with interesting premise, not recycled locations, without shitty humor attempts and crappy minigames
and thats only chapter 3

imma play this game to the end but not holding out any hope
 

Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
on chapter 4, so far game is the best when i am not playing it and just watching door stuff.
gameplay itself is trash, even tho its pretty much the same - everything lacks context or meaning, monsters suck and dungeons are boring af
if game was nothing but doors i'd rather have that
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
603
Huh, I actually thought the gameplay of 3rd was among the best ones in the series. You get access to a truckload of characters who start the game with pretty much all their crafts learned, meaning you have a boatload of options, configurations and team combinations after a chapter or two. There's some broken characters/crafts, but overall it's among the more well-balanced games in the series and not the giant basket of game-breakers the Cold Steel arc is.
 

Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,367
on chapter 4, so far game is the best when i am not playing it and just watching door stuff.
gameplay itself is trash, even tho its pretty much the same - everything lacks context or meaning, monsters suck and dungeons are boring af
if game was nothing but doors i'd rather have that
Your avatar looks really familiar. I distinctly remember someone running an enormous complaining fest in an Ys VIII thread with a similar one, throwing out generic one liner complaints. "Monsters suck", yeah OK. I ain't gonna write a dissertation against a rant, and maybe you should cool it with the ranting. This ain't the Angry Joe symposium.
 

Bran-dono

Member
Aug 22, 2018
861
Won't lie, when I first started Zero I was like WHERE ARE YOU OUROBOROS GUY for a decent chunk of it.
Vita was the reveal that really surprised me. I mean, Weismann did, but the Vita twist had more of an impact on me for some reason. I think because it was just done pretty well. So now I'm looking for clues, anyone who seems especially ordinary, for example.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,899
it'd be great if lore came with interesting premise, not recycled locations, without shitty humor attempts and crappy minigames
and thats only chapter 3

imma play this game to the end but not holding out any hope
the main story takes forever to get going, but its at least quite incredible once it does, believe me though, I feel ya
 

skLaFarebear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
297
Complaining about asset reuse in a Trails game, i don't have enough Kondo emotes to react to that one.

I guess we gonna complain about how bad the dungeon design in a Trails game is next.
 

Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
Complaining about asset reuse in a Trails game, i don't have enough Kondo emotes to react to that one.

I guess we gonna complain about how bad the dungeon design in a Trails game is next.
i mean, i didnt mind running around the same cities and world for 4 games (cs1/2, sky 1/2) as it was filled with new content and npcs and shit.
when you just give me exact same locations but everything is monsters - ew
i get it that its entire game premise and even if those sections are short, still - i dont like it. at all.

i never had an issue with it until now. when there is absolutely nothing in said locations but a bunch of slapped on chests and monsters i cant get behind it

edit:
speaking of, i get it right that 3rd was made on a tight budget? it feels like it definitely...spent a lot less time in development and production than first 2 games. its shorter and gameplay/world shortcomings after 2 massive games are obvious when you are playing them back to back
 
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PK Gaming

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,339
It seems like most people in this thread like 3rd, which is good, but it's worth reiterating that it's significantly better than SC and on par/better than FC
 

skLaFarebear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
297
i mean, i didnt mind running around the same cities and world for 4 games (cs1/2, sky 1/2) as it was filled with new content and npcs and shit.
when you just give me exact same locations but everything is monsters - ew
i get it that its entire game premise and even if those sections are short, still - i dont like it. at all.

i never had an issue with it until now. when there is absolutely nothing in said locations but a bunch of slapped on chests and monsters i cant get behind it
I'm not disagreeing with you that asset reuse, and the 3rd's use of it is especially, can be pretty wack, but let's not also pretend that The 3rd is the only real offender here.

The nice thing is at least when the 3rd does have new areas they attempt to make it more interesting than some of the actual straight line dungeons we've seen in the series.
 
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Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
i am in the mid of chapter 4, thats about halfway through the game i presume - i should beat it by friday and looking forward to jump on (or from) the 3rd hype train by then, comments of you all keep my spirit high while playing through this game.
 

Xavi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,102
Lightning for Smash
Thinking about replaying Sky Trilogy and CSI&II, I have played CS1 like three times now but the Sky trilogy only once which is crime because The 3rd is easily favorite game in the entire series. After getting done with that I'll pray the gods that the Zero fan translation is done, play the not so great Ao translation and then buy a PS4 to play CSIII (fuck waiting for a PC port).
 

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,799
Taken as a whole I think chapters 2-4 make SC too weak to put squarely above FC or 3rd. I think both of those games are much more consistently paced and don't really suffer the way those SC chapters do. But in fairness, I have never replayed SC (or 3rd) so my opinion could change on a replay. I definitely appreciated FC more the second time through.

That said, I think the second half of SC is the best any (English) Trails game has to offer.
 
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PK Gaming

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,339
yea definitely the complete opposite of that
It definitely isn't and i'll actually explain why

-Mediocre pacing (Chapter 7 slows the game to a crawl)
-Too much backtracking
-Very little gameplay incentives for new players to get excited over. You get the same protagonist that's barely changed, with orbments that are barely changed and a party that's barely changed. The new party members join at the endgame and Anelace leaves early on. Samey doesn't even begin to describe the gameplay experience. Chain's could have been better.
-A mundane first half. There are definitely some terrific character moments, but nothing really drives the story until Chapter 5, and that's pretty damn far down the line. SC feels more like a new adventure as a Senior Bracer rather than FC's direct followup for most of it (which would have been fine if it didn't come after SC)
-Reused dungeons are ass
-Weakest quests in the series bar none. Too much "go here, do that" and less shakeups

Again, not even close to being the best Trails game, and as an RPG, it's mediocre.
 

Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
you all talk about pacing of SC but somehow ignore that 90% of FC is complete snoozefest. only in grancel game picks up pace and gets going
i had to take 2 week break after chapter 3 because i was bored
blasted through entire SC non stop though
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,899
I basically disagree with everything you said. Its the most interesting story and world building throughout, despite the main quest taking a while to pick up. The combat is by far the best balanced of all of them, making progress quite enjoyable, you get way more freedom with your party than FC, while not as much as 3rd you also arent shafted by horribly paced gameplay.

I find it amusing that almost all of your complaints about SC, I level at 3rd instead. Poor pacing and balancing (far too easy), a story that doesnt go anywhere until chapter 7, worst sidequests (dont exist for the most part)
 

PK Gaming

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,339
you all talk about pacing of SC but somehow ignore that 90% of FC is complete snoozefest. only in grancel game picks up pace and gets going
"90% of FC is a snoozefest" makes it seem like you didn't take the time to enjoy any of what FC set up, which is a strange take considering you seem to have liked SC so much to the point of blazing through it (you know, despite the fact SC is largely a retread)

i had to take 2 week break after chapter 3 because i was bored
blasted through entire SC non stop though
Good for you, but that's not an argument.

I basically disagree with everything you said.
Alright, then explain why instead of leaving me out to dry. You didn't refute most of my points.

Its the most interesting story and world building throughout, despite the main quest taking a while to pick up. The combat is by far the best balanced of all of them, making progress quite enjoyable, you get way more freedom with your party than FC, while not as much as 3rd you also arent shafted by horribly paced gameplay.
It has an interesting story and expands on the worldbuilding by quite a bit, sure, but the combat isn't anything special. Every character is more or less running the same quartz loadout (Action, Cast, Attack, etc) and enemies have absurdly high hp pools. Strategy just breaks down to spamming arts (since crafts are mostly weak as hell) or S-crafts (if you're agate). The problem is that you do chip damage for most of the game and chip damage is just about one of the least satisfying things ever (this is incidentally why SC's hard/nightmare modes are complete garbage) so battles aren't fun. It gets a lot better when you can strengthen your characters to the point where there attacks actually hit hard, but it's a long ways in.

I find it amusing that almost all of your complaints about SC, I level at 3rd instead. Poor pacing and balancing (far too easy), a story that doesnt go anywhere until chapter 7, worst sidequests (dont exist for the most part)
Explain to how 3rd is poorly paced when it splits dungeon design and story nicely and has character developing subquests that can be done at your leisure. The story doesn't "go anywhere" because most of it is setup (and damn good one at that. Kevin is by far the most compelling Kiseki protagonist)

Also it might be less "balanced" than SC, but you aren't doing chip damage and you have a myriad of fun and interesting characters to use (+ with bosses that are actually great)
 

Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
i, personally, couldnt care less about combat. and stories of FC about kids doing busywork for civilians never interested me. only stuff that involved ouroboros.
and you get plenty of that in SC thats why i like it way more.
so far for me its SC > 3rd > FC.

And 3rd's pacing is by far my biggest issue with it. You are constantly traipsing through meaningless dungeon sequences with barely anything going on, only for a hint to pop up at the end and then finally a decent scene back at the hub. The great localized worldbuilding of NPCs that the series is so great at is completely gone. Then the dungeons get interrupted by long drown out story sequences that are completely out of place and can drag on for hours at a time before dropping you back into the dungeon to try and remember where you even left off.
sign under every word
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,899
Im not going to itemize a list...and the combat isnt anything special compared to FC but then neither is 3rd. It works because its balanced enjoyably. I would agree that the harder difficulties are not. What makes SC more interesting from the start is similar to CS2 from one, the increased starting power and the far greater freedom on party members. This makes it enjoyable right off the back of FC.

And 3rd's pacing is by far my biggest issue with it. You are constantly traipsing through meaningless dungeon sequences with barely anything going on, only for a hint to pop up at the end and then finally a decent scene back at the hub. The great localized worldbuilding of NPCs that the series is so great at is completely gone. Then the dungeons get interrupted by long drown out story sequences that are completely out of place and can drag on for hours at a time before dropping you back into the dungeon to try and remember where you even left off. I maintain that the doors are absolutely the worst story delivery method. They feel arbitrary. The stories within them range from good to amazing, and are completely impactful, but the way you experience them is just so poor that it detracts from the game. Meanwhile despite hints, the main story doesnt go anywhere until chapter 7 and you are left to depend on the doors for other world building.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,339
i, personally, couldnt care less about combat. and stories of FC about kids doing busywork for civilians never interested me. only stuff that involved ouroboros.
and you get plenty of that in SC thats why i like it way more.
so far for me its SC > 3rd > FC.
So the game where you spend 95% of a given chapter doing busywork for civilians (and chapter 8 being 100% busywork for civilians) is somehow significantly better than FC. Makes sense. Personally, I don't think Ouroborus is all that well utilized in SC until the very end; i'm more fond of the emotional payoffs and fun sidequests (ex: mystery attacker in Ruan) over a baddie showing up, taunting the heroes then fucking off.

Im not going to itemize a list...and the combat isnt anything special compared to FC but then neither is 3rd. It works because its balanced enjoyably. I would agree that the harder difficulties are not. What makes SC more interesting from the start is similar to CS2 from one, the increased starting power and the far greater freedom on party members. This makes it enjoyable right off the back of FC.
3rd's combat is better for a number of reasons. Characters are significantly more interesting than they were in FC/SC. Kevin, Tita, Anelace, etc all get upgrades that both make them more fun to use and more unique relative to other cast members. The fact that you don't do chip damage is another reason why it's more enjoyable and boss fights are generally more exciting than the HP sponges / bunch of giant enemies that make up the majority of boss fights in SC. Who cares if it's less balanced? SC has some of the least interest enemy encounter / boss I've played in an RPG. You approach every boss pretty much the same way then beat in a war of attrition and it's usually some giant worm (x6) or other nonsense.

Your comparison to CS2 doesn't hold up either; in that game, the returning characters are accompanied by a guest character who is literally game-changing.

And 3rd's pacing is by far my biggest issue with it. You are constantly traipsing through meaningless dungeon sequences with barely anything going on, only for a hint to pop up at the end and then finally a decent scene back at the hub. The great localized worldbuilding of NPCs that the series is so great at is completely gone. Then the dungeons get interrupted by long drown out story sequences that are completely out of place and can drag on for hours at a time before dropping you back into the dungeon to try and remember where you even left off. I maintain that the doors are absolutely the worst story delivery method. They feel arbitrary. The stories within them range from good to amazing, and are completely impactful, but the way you experience them is just so poor that it detracts from the game. Meanwhile despite hints, the main story doesnt go anywhere until chapter 7 and you are left to depend on the doors for other world building.
3rd has the best dungeon design in the series, for one, with puzzles that don't grate, incredible rewards that make going out and finding chests worthwhile and an amazing final boss. You miss out on NPC dialogue, but you get a concentrated amount of character development for every single main character (to the degree that no other game in the series has matched).

Your reasoning for why you dislike the doors is completely nonsensical. You get to experience these stories in a non-intrusive way at your own leisure. So what if they're arbitrary. The set up is largely arbitrary (which could be argued as a weakness for the game) but it's all fine because its in service to one best concept in Kiseki. The main story has a ton of shakeup and revelations that make getting to chapter 7 enjoyable in its own right. It's a game that objectively gets better as you progress, in comparison to SC which craters hard at the 7-8 mark and spikes in quality during the final chapter.
 

Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
So the game where you spend 95% of a given chapter doing busywork for civilians (and chapter 8 being 100% busywork for civilians) is somehow significantly better than FC. Makes sense. Personally, I don't think Ouroborus is all that well utilized in SC until the very end; i'm more fond of the emotional payoffs and fun sidequests (ex: mystery attacker in Ruan) over a baddie showing up, taunting the heroes then fucking off.
chapter 8 is 0 busywork and 100% pointless artificial game-prolonging roadblock gameplay, lets be honest. its awful. but! once you return to grancel it gets good.

that said, hunting down and exploring dudes that drop 1 line and fuck off was infinitely more fun than anything in FC. i 100% max BP FC and after few weeks i cant even remember most of it, thats how forgettable it was. in FC you dont even get one liner dudes, you get some wack ass wanna-be antagonists and story that takes forever to get going.
actually lets remember all "antagonists" of FC in chapters that you play except grancel.
sky bandits? just irrelevant nobodies as they are getting presented in the story actually, bunch of wacks. 3rd game and i still dont like them, personalities of bricks. even josette story in 3rd was wack.
mayor and warehouse dudes/black guys? wack. i'll forgive gilbert because as of this point he isnt overused. well at least encounter with "laurence" was cool
big ass penguin - dear lord
 
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Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,799
None of this matters when the best games are actually the Crossbell duology. :mishy:
Geofront pls.

But for real, now I'm wondering how things are going with Zero. I know a vague goals of "summer" and "before CS3" were mentioned in comments surrounding the January update, but I haven't seen anything since. Granted, I probably don't frequent the places where tiny updates get dropped aside from Zerker's twitter, but I haven't seen him mention the project in months.
 

Solarc

Member
Sep 24, 2018
159
Based on the frequency of previous updates, I was kinda hoping we'd get one by the end of this month, we'll see I guess.