Community Spotlight: Sea of Thieves |OT2| The Golden Era of Piracy

Oct 29, 2017
436
"antiethical to the original concept"

yikes

"vaping slot pulling addicts" lmao what the hell is this shit
Here are some quotes from Rare at e3 2017:

"It's easy for games to be about rage and violence, most games just are. For us, we want you to experience a fuller range of emotions. For example, you have your story about stealing your crew's ship, you would've felt differently from your crew. They might have felt surprise, for example, where you might have felt remorse, or probably joy. But, whatever happens in-game, there's always an emotion and a counter emotion. We want to see a wide range of stories, and a wide range of emotions. "

On progression:

"We love this idea of reputation. We love the idea of you gaining reputation in different ways, from playing in different ways. Think back to encouraging players to play in different ways, and the range of emotions we want you to experience. We don't want it to be basic like "oh you've killed 100 skeletons, you get 100 EXP," we don't think that's Sea of Thieves. "

Which I will emphasize all of the commendations post launch are essentially do x, y times.

So yes, what SoT became is antithetical to what made it a unique offering in the Microsoft XBL ecosystem. This game should not be purely competitive, nor should it be purely about grinding. In the early days, the community and game was fun because it was decidedly about neither of these things.

Regarding my hyperbole about gambling, seriously interact with the late game players. In my experience, these people log x amount of hours per week, and don't enjoy doing it, and any enjoyment they receive is in the sense that they've progressed even further than a subset of the player population who has less time to invest. Again, this isn't unique to SoT, but it certainly makes the game feel less special and more like the toxic environments that one can experience in any number of other XBL titles.
 
Oct 29, 2017
436
This is all the dude does, he complains and then concocts a bunch of insults as to why everyone else but him is wrong. Its never the man in the mirror its all of us who are consistently wrong and ruining the game or community or whatever
I admitted that it was hyperbole, and further explained my point. I am not insulting anyone, I'm just saying that on a design level the game encourages toxic behaviors that are antithetical to core concepts that were discussed during development. You are free to disagree with me, and explain why. But instead you're putting words in my mouth, and taking an almost personal level of offense to my critique.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,599
Here are some quotes from Rare at e3 2017:

"It's easy for games to be about rage and violence, most games just are. For us, we want you to experience a fuller range of emotions. For example, you have your story about stealing your crew's ship, you would've felt differently from your crew. They might have felt surprise, for example, where you might have felt remorse, or probably joy. But, whatever happens in-game, there's always an emotion and a counter emotion. We want to see a wide range of stories, and a wide range of emotions. "

On progression:

"We love this idea of reputation. We love the idea of you gaining reputation in different ways, from playing in different ways. Think back to encouraging players to play in different ways, and the range of emotions we want you to experience. We don't want it to be basic like "oh you've killed 100 skeletons, you get 100 EXP," we don't think that's Sea of Thieves. "

Which I will emphasize all of the commendations post launch are essentially do x, y times.

So yes, what SoT became is antithetical to what made it a unique offering in the Microsoft XBL ecosystem. This game should not be purely competitive, nor should it be purely about grinding. In the early days, the community and game was fun because it was decidedly about neither of these things.

Regarding my hyperbole about gambling, seriously interact with the late game players. In my experience, these people log x amount of hours per week, and don't enjoy doing it, and any enjoyment they receive is in the sense that they've progressed even further than a subset of the player population who has less time to invest. Again, this isn't unique to SoT, but it certainly makes the game feel less special and more like the toxic environments that one can experience in any number of other XBL titles.
Oops I'm engaging again.

But I think I've gone over this with you again...



o the first point, that emotion and counter emotion stuff is still very much there. Dunno what game you are playing. Its fun to sink and mess with people. It sucks when it happens to you. Thats the beauty. Thats the risk. Tension is everything.

On progression, cool we don't have to kill 100 skeletons to get some XP.... but what the fuck do you think grinding voyages is. It's doing 500 gold hoarder quests to move a bar and raise a number. The game at launch was a G R I N D. So much so that the early LFG posts were purely fort hopping or voyage grinding. Commendations actually help to alleviate this because many award doubloons. Doubloons buy gold but more importantly rank up packages. And I dunno about you but doubloons made that final push to PL SO MUCH MORE FUN. I got to do cool, fun events, get a reward, and use that to rank up. Much better that fort hopping or grinding voyages. I still have commendations I need to unlock for cool rewards. Dunno what kind of rose tinted glasses you have here... unless you are comparing the game now to its alpha/beta....

To compare a games player culture in the alpha/beta and the full game is so incredibly stupid. There is, by its nature, no progression in the alpha/beta because progress gets wiped. You also had no choice in your pirate look or ship look. Of course people act differently. It's a fresh new game, people are just shooting the shit figuring it out. It was for sure a fun time.

But once your character becomes permanent in the game. the culture does change because you have certain goals you want to reach. Those sails, that hull, that cosmetic. I feel you that not many people sail just for the sake of sailing and adventure...but to bring this back to your point about the devs not listening... They do listen. That's the reason commendations were added in the first place. They had a certain design, they listened to the fans, and they changed it. The core complaint of this game was "theres nothing to do" now they added AMPLE things to do. Another core complaint, especially after Hungering Deep, was no replayability. If you didn't complete the campaign that first weekend GOOD LUCK on finding a crew to do it. Because of this they added commendations with rewards. As well as things like Tall Tales actually having a payout.

You're just mad they didn't listen to YOU. You're mad the game has any reputation and bars in the first place.


But I have a solution for you. Join insiders. Progress gets wiped all the time, no one cares about gold. They are there to play with new features.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,579
But I have a solution for you. Join insiders. Progress gets wiped all the time, no one cares about gold. They are there to play with new features.
this might not shock you but he was in pioneers and a big part of the reason why im being so dismissive is because i used to see this song and dance play out week to week. Anytime pioneers seemed to like a feature he didnt hed throw a hissy fit about how everybody is just sucking up to the devs, it couldnt POSSIBLY be a difference of opinion because theres no way someone could possibly enjoy what he doesnt.
 
Oct 29, 2017
436
this might not shock you but he was in pioneers and a big part of the reason why im being so dismissive is because i used to see this song and dance play out week to week. Anytime pioneers seemed to like a feature he didnt hed throw a hissy fit about how everybody is just sucking up to the devs, it couldnt POSSIBLY be a difference of opinion because theres no way someone could possibly enjoy what he doesnt.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I point to the problems with the community. Why do you feel the need to make it personal instead of actually responding to the things that I am saying? You're entitled to your position, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. But my threads on the official forum were highly upvoted and visible, so don't pretend like there aren't people that agree with me.

Quite honestly I see a lot more dismissiveness from the crowd that refuses to acknowledge any problems in the game.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
11,348
There are a lot of problems with the games.

I still like it.

Also think they have built enough of a fanbase to guarantee this game to be an IP for the future. Be it via support of this title or a new version in 10 years.
 

Pikma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,560
What is this I'm reading???

this game was about grinding since day one, there's a reason Rare adjusted prize values and went to great lengths, even if it was detrimental to a couple game mechanics, to stop people from selling too many chickens not long after launch
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,579
"Why are people being dismissive of me, the person who instantly dismisses any counterargument with an insult like saying theyre vaping gambling addicts? Why is this community so toxic towards my valid arguments i cant figure it out"
 
Oct 29, 2017
436
"Why are people being dismissive of me, the person who instantly dismisses any counterargument with an insult like saying theyre vaping gambling addicts? Why is this community so toxic towards my valid arguments i cant figure it out"
I explained my comment, and you just keep re-quoting it over and over again, instead of actually responding to anything that I have written. Yes, grinding has always been part of SoT, but Rare themselves admitted that the race to Pirate Legend caught them entirely by surprise. For most of us, SoT is about the journey not the destination, I think that's still largely true today, and I think Rare would agree that's the ultimate goal.

The problem is post-launch, instead of adding things to the sandbox or encouraging players to interact with one another, they decided to introduce a bunch of poorly organized commendations that only the most addicted gamers will take on. You can continue to criticize my comment, but the fact of the matter is that some of the commendations that they included in this game require the sort of time commitment that only someone who is blowing off significant parts of their life would actually be able to accomplish. Their inclusion is a design decision.The whole late game in SoT is built around this stuff. Thus, Rare is actively creating goals that encourage toxic behaviors in their own community. Rare no longer cares about the accessibility that originally drew diverse groups of people to the game, instead their catering to the same old crowd of gaming sharks that are able to dump hours into multiplayer titles. I am not trying to be offensive, I'm just calling a spade a spade. It literally takes over 100 real life hours to get the top commendation (240 wins) in arena, and this isn't even including lobby time and losses. And perhaps I would see more to the argument "it's just a goal" but if Rare wanted to make this game accessible they would significantly add to the overall purchasable cosmetic count, or other non time sink ways for players to become renowned on the seas (again something they talked about constantly in the alpha).

Again, this is Rare in 2017 "We don't want it to be basic like "oh you've killed 100 skeletons, you get 100 EXP," we don't think that's Sea of Thieves."

And here we are today, "spend at least 100 hours to unlock a cosmetic."

Yes, EXP is not 1:1 with cosmetics, but again, the late-game in SoT is literally built entirely around unlocking rare/difficult cosmetics. You cannot tell me with a straight face that that isn't true. I could join any random game right now of PLs and most of them would be working towards some sort of commendation/cosmetic related goal.

And that's my problem, the game has not added anything to the sandbox. They can't even seem to add basic things like the banjo or more songs. Rare essentially let the internet focus test this game and instead of doing cool stuff like a captaincy update, they spent over a year making random things for people to grind because the internet was screaming about "lack of content" at launch.

My point is that launch and forward is where I became less invested in this game. SoT is a unique game that's quite unlike most other multiplayer titles in the Microsoft ecosystem, and instead of trying to further expand this IP to perhaps people who do not normally consider themselves gamers, or folks like me who are pretty burnt out by the grind of modern multiplayer titles, they decided to chase the lowest common denominator of feedback from core "gamers" who were never really part of what made this game unique and fun.

In the alpha and shortly after launch, I liked playing with older people, deaf people, people from other countries, mom's playing with their kids, etc. Very few of those people play anymore. In there place is just the normal multiplayer crowd who is angry, toxic, and just wants to pour hours into titles in some sort e-status symbol.
 

SpokkX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,734
I explained my comment, and you just keep re-quoting it over and over again, instead of actually responding to anything that I have written. Yes, grinding has always been part of SoT, but Rare themselves admitted that the race to Pirate Legend caught them entirely by surprise. For most of us, SoT is about the journey not the destination, I think that's still largely true today, and I think Rare would agree that's the ultimate goal.

The problem is post-launch, instead of adding things to the sandbox or encouraging players to interact with one another, they decided to introduce a bunch of poorly organized commendations that only the most addicted gamers will take on. You can continue to criticize my comment, but the fact of the matter is that some of the commendations that they included in this game require the sort of time commitment that only someone who is blowing off significant parts of their life would actually be able to accomplish. Their inclusion is a design decision.The whole late game in SoT is built around this stuff. Thus, Rare is actively creating goals that encourage toxic behaviors in their own community. Rare no longer cares about the accessibility that originally drew diverse groups of people to the game, instead their catering to the same old crowd of gaming sharks that are able to dump hours into multiplayer titles. I am not trying to be offensive, I'm just calling a spade a spade. It literally takes over 100 real life hours to get the top commendation (240 wins) in arena, and this isn't even including lobby time and losses. And perhaps I would see more to the argument "it's just a goal" but if Rare wanted to make this game accessible they would significantly add to the overall purchasable cosmetic count, or other non time sink ways for players to become renowned on the seas (again something they talked about constantly in the alpha).

Again, this is Rare in 2017 "We don't want it to be basic like "oh you've killed 100 skeletons, you get 100 EXP," we don't think that's Sea of Thieves."

And here we are today, "spend at least 100 hours to unlock a cosmetic."

Yes, EXP is not 1:1 with cosmetics, but again, the late-game in SoT is literally built entirely around unlocking rare/difficult cosmetics. You cannot tell me with a straight face that that isn't true. I could join any random game right now of PLs and most of them would be working towards some sort of commendation/cosmetic related goal.

And that's my problem, the game has not added anything to the sandbox. They can't even seem to add basic things like the banjo or more songs. Rare essentially let the internet focus test this game and instead of doing cool stuff like a captaincy update, they spent over a year making random things for people to grind because the internet was screaming about "lack of content" at launch.

My point is that launch and forward is where I became less invested in this game. SoT is a unique game that's quite unlike most other multiplayer titles in the Microsoft ecosystem, and instead of trying to further expand this IP to perhaps people who do not normally consider themselves gamers, or folks like me who are pretty burnt out by the grind of modern multiplayer titles, they decided to chase the lowest common denominator of feedback from core "gamers" who were never really part of what made this game unique and fun.

In the alpha and shortly after launch, I liked playing with older people, deaf people, people from other countries, mom's playing with their kids, etc. Very few of those people play anymore. In there place is just the normal multiplayer crowd who is angry, toxic, and just wants to pour hours into titles in some sort e-status symbol.
You sure write a lot about something you have dismissed. Why not put all that energy into something you actually like?

Talking about toxic audience eh? Well... and done
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,599
I explained my comment, and you just keep re-quoting it over and over again, instead of actually responding to anything that I have written. Yes, grinding has always been part of SoT, but Rare themselves admitted that the race to Pirate Legend caught them entirely by surprise. For most of us, SoT is about the journey not the destination, I think that's still largely true today, and I think Rare would agree that's the ultimate goal.

The problem is post-launch, instead of adding things to the sandbox or encouraging players to interact with one another, they decided to introduce a bunch of poorly organized commendations that only the most addicted gamers will take on. You can continue to criticize my comment, but the fact of the matter is that some of the commendations that they included in this game require the sort of time commitment that only someone who is blowing off significant parts of their life would actually be able to accomplish. Their inclusion is a design decision.The whole late game in SoT is built around this stuff. Thus, Rare is actively creating goals that encourage toxic behaviors in their own community. Rare no longer cares about the accessibility that originally drew diverse groups of people to the game, instead their catering to the same old crowd of gaming sharks that are able to dump hours into multiplayer titles. I am not trying to be offensive, I'm just calling a spade a spade. It literally takes over 100 real life hours to get the top commendation (240 wins) in arena, and this isn't even including lobby time and losses. And perhaps I would see more to the argument "it's just a goal" but if Rare wanted to make this game accessible they would significantly add to the overall purchasable cosmetic count, or other non time sink ways for players to become renowned on the seas (again something they talked about constantly in the alpha).

Again, this is Rare in 2017 "We don't want it to be basic like "oh you've killed 100 skeletons, you get 100 EXP," we don't think that's Sea of Thieves."

And here we are today, "spend at least 100 hours to unlock a cosmetic."

Yes, EXP is not 1:1 with cosmetics, but again, the late-game in SoT is literally built entirely around unlocking rare/difficult cosmetics. You cannot tell me with a straight face that that isn't true. I could join any random game right now of PLs and most of them would be working towards some sort of commendation/cosmetic related goal.

And that's my problem, the game has not added anything to the sandbox. They can't even seem to add basic things like the banjo or more songs. Rare essentially let the internet focus test this game and instead of doing cool stuff like a captaincy update, they spent over a year making random things for people to grind because the internet was screaming about "lack of content" at launch.

My point is that launch and forward is where I became less invested in this game. SoT is a unique game that's quite unlike most other multiplayer titles in the Microsoft ecosystem, and instead of trying to further expand this IP to perhaps people who do not normally consider themselves gamers, or folks like me who are pretty burnt out by the grind of modern multiplayer titles, they decided to chase the lowest common denominator of feedback from core "gamers" who were never really part of what made this game unique and fun.

In the alpha and shortly after launch, I liked playing with older people, deaf people, people from other countries, mom's playing with their kids, etc. Very few of those people play anymore. In there place is just the normal multiplayer crowd who is angry, toxic, and just wants to pour hours into titles in some sort e-status symbol.
I legitimately think you are seriously misguided. Borderline delusional.

1. You admit grinding has always been part of the game, but then complain that theres too much grind. The difference between launch and now is that at launch you were fort hopping and doing voyages to raise a bar. You act like commendations introduced grind into this game. No. They added variety. Now you can do forts, skeleton ships, voyages, fishing, tall tales. Players also have a choice of mixing it up and going for some of the unique commendations. Let's try to get the lantern lights today. Let's do DR voyages and try to find the Box of Secrets. Let's do DR stuff for the DR gear. Let's find the skeleton thrones. Etc. etc. There's still plenty of people who want to just chill and sail. LFG them.

I understand the game is meant to be a sandbox but a sandbox with no direction will not hold up, as fun as it is. The game was RIPPED apart for this issue at launch.

2. No Sandbox Additions? Are you fucking kidding me dude?
Hungering Deep: Speaking Trumpet, Megs, Ship Flags, Drum
Cursed Sails: Cursed cannonballs, skeleton ships, alliances
Forsaken Shores: New area with new dangers, rowboats, new ship type.
Shrouded Spoils: I think the new merchant voyages were i this one? Fog.
Anniversary: Harpoons, Tall Tales, Fishing/New Company
Then in addition to this some of the bilge rat stuff added more to the game.
Mermaid Gems
Keg Skeletons
New Voyages
Reapers Mark


I'm honestly probably forgetting some as well.

And you are complaining they didn't add songs and a banjo? What the fuck does that add to the sandbox, gameplay wise? And although we don't know much about the Captaincy update, it honestly just sounded like ways to visually customize your ship. What they added was leagues better for sandbox play.

It's clear what you wanted is a barebones game where you just sail around for no reason other than HOPING you run into some fun situations. Having something to chase is fun. Getting it is a sense of accomplishment. But if you want to just play the game without these goals you can too. If you want to play Arena you don't HAVE to be gunning for the wins, but you can play the game with someone gunning for the wins commendation and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. If you want to do Athena voyages and actually do all the maps you can easily LFG it. People speed run it for sure, but I've seen posts like "gather all treasure" I've been on Athena voyages where we hit shipwrecks and other shit because we had the goal of amassing a fortune on our ship.

I legitimately think you are actively trying to not enjoy this game because you are stubborn or have some rose tinted view.

Part of the reason people are frustrated with your takes is you are basically saying the game has been trash since launch day because the "culture" of the no progression enabled Alpha and Beta is gone. Which is stupid.
 
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Roldan

Member
Oct 29, 2017
372
Man, this gunpowder update is a feast for people who like to sneak into other players ships.

You can basically climb into the crow's nest and hold the entire crew your hostage. lmao
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,599
I watched for the loot but the commentators suck and aren't doing a great job in analyzing it.

They did say these streamers are more casual SoT fans and day 2 (tomorrow) will feature the more hardcore SoT streamers.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,458
Got the Twitch ship parts. I assume, like the other Obsidian items, these are gonna be given away at a hundred more opportunities.
I've been a bit less inclined to do any of the promo events just because I got so many of the early promo items right away, then saw the same things offered pretty much ad nauseum in other places, and it took a little of the shine off of them.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,579
Theres some they give out a lot and theres some they almost never give out. Waiting for the free opportunity to get the two new obsidian items from the store-exlcusive Black Friday pack was trying when they kept recycling some of the older items for a few months before finally doing the mixpot for the fullset when arena came out
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
11,348
Rare is pushing this as an eSports when it is not eSports ready.

There is still too much lag. The game is incredibly confusing to spectate if you want to watch the whole game instead of one player and the lack of decent private matches and decent match creation systems makes this incredibly frustrating to watch.

They've got ~25k viewers tho, so that's something. Other Twitch Rivals streams have been less successful.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,599
Rare is pushing this as an eSports when it is not eSports ready.

There is still too much lag. The game is incredibly confusing to spectate if you want to watch the whole game instead of one player and the lack of decent private matches and decent match creation systems makes this incredibly frustrating to watch.

They've got ~25k viewers tho, so that's something. Other Twitch Rivals streams have been less successful.
I don't think they are pushing it as an esport at all. Just a fun competition. The twitch rivals guys even said they once did one for Stardew Valley and the team that one was super hardcore and had like a google doc of seed data to find the most efficient way to farm.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
11,348
I don't think they are pushing it as an esport at all. Just a fun competition. The twitch rivals guys even said they once did one for Stardew Valley and the team that one was super hardcore and had like a google doc of seed data to find the most efficient way to farm.
Well, with three competitive events in 2 months they are quite active with it. :P

But agree, it's more a fun PvP game than a very professional eSport.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,579
Advertising your new competitive mode at two major events and in a tournament-based streaming series is hardly what i'd call pushing an esport.
 

Droyd

Member
Mar 1, 2018
584
Heads up, once you’ve got your rewards switch the Pace’s channel. I’m finding their stream more entertaining than Twitch Rivals
 

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,064
Portland, Oregon
Is this a serious post?

Are people here on resetera fans of these so called influencers/streamers?
Dude, you need to relax and stop screaming at the clouds with your cane lol. Your posts almost read like you've just walked out of a time capsule from the 90's.

It's 2019. People love and watch streamers and YouTubers. That's the reality. I do it too. Though I'm not really into any streamers myself. I'm mostly a YouTube guy.
 

Haruko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
480
my last Twitch notification is 2 months old, but I did get the Obsidian Figurehead and Hull in-game already