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Competitive Super Smash Bros Melee Community: 2001-present

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#1


This is a catch-all thread for discussion about competitive Super Smash Bros Melee. Tournaments, learning to play, discussing the meta, and so forth.

Super Smash Bros Melee was released in 2001 for the Nintendo Gamecube, and in most of the years since then it has seen its competitive community thrive. The Smash Brothers documentary is a great look at the history of the scene from the early years through Ken's famous reign, the dark years when the scene nearly died after Brawl's release, and the resurgence and rise of players like Mew2King, Mango, and Armada that are still dominant today. A sequel documentary is in the works that will pick up where that one left off, covering the more recent era.

Learning to play? SSBM Tutorials youtube channel, formerly run by Kira, is a great resource with lots of tips. The linked playlist is a great starting point, going over the basics of getting started and fundamental tech to learn, and also includes Wak's "Advanced How to Play" videos.

Want to watch? When's Melee usually has current and upcoming tournaments listed. MIOM also has a usually up-to-date list of current events. And you can just check the list of Melee streams on Twitch.



We have a discord, but it isn't very active.
You need to reply to this in order to see this content.


Feel free to suggest additions. Tried to use links to keep this low maintenance but still relatively updated.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
327
#2
so... is there a subscribe button or something?

on topic:

do you guys think that mew2king should use marth more when practicing with plup's sheik, and go marth against him when they play in tournament, instead of playing the ditto?
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#3
Watch Thread is the same as subscribe.

Has M2K been struggling with the Sheik ditto recently? It seems like he's good enough at it that he doesn't really need to grind out a character swap.



Randall just won a game. Damn.



Icons looks quite a bit better than prior showings.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#5
I feel better about being clueless about that last summit mafia game. Never felt better about being trolled.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#7
I was so sure of who was Mafia too then... it didn't happen and I was just lost. Baited so hard but so worth it.
I wasn't sure of anyone except Westballz due to the times he misspoke and he was acting more similar to last night's game where he was mafia than the one where he wasn't. Other than that I spent the entire game bouncing back and forth on who I thought was suspicious.



There is no reason Axe and aMSa should have brought that Dreamland game back. They were down like 6 stocks to 2.

Or that FD game. WTF.
 
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Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
649
#8
I wasn't sure of anyone except Westballz due to the times he misspoke and he was acting more similar to last night's game where he was mafia than the one where he wasn't. Other than that I spent the entire game bouncing back and forth on who I thought was suspicious.



There is no reason Axe and aMSa should have brought that Dreamland game back. They were down like 6 stocks to 2.

Or that FD game. WTF.
If this is a 3-0... man. This is one of the strangest doubles sets I've ever seen.

Yep. That was a strange set. If anyone missed it, watch the vods.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#10
Opted our thread in for the OT index. I'm not opting in for community spotlight because it will probably just lead to a bunch of trolling and snide drivebys, not unlike Melee topics on GAF.


Axe aMSa just not able to cut it against the Swedes. Still impressive they made it as far as they did, especially 3-0ing the NorCal team.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#12
Alex19 saved Melee from Sakurai.

And Wizzrobe took so long to show up it was over when he got there, lol.

Video was funny but way too long. Could have been 10 minutes instead of 30+.


Real singles, finally. Coach match was some round 1 pools stuff lol.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#16
Apparently Leffen was threatening to drop out of Summit singles because of the seeding. I think the winner of Mango/Leffen was going to be seeded to play Plup while the loser would be seeded to play Axe, both in winners bracket. So throwing the set for a lower seed would have been favorable.

TBH I don't think it matters. If Axe plays as well as he did yesterday he's probably got as much of a shot at beating Leffen as Plup. And Leffen is already throwing out the pre-johns so his mental game isn't going to be up to par anyway.
 

Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
649
#17
Apparently Leffen was threatening to drop out of Summit singles because of the seeding. I think the winner of Mango/Leffen was going to be seeded to play Plup while the loser would be seeded to play Axe, both in winners bracket. So throwing the set for a lower seed would have been favorable.

TBH I don't think it matters. If Axe plays as well as he did yesterday he's probably got as much of a shot at beating Leffen as Plup. And Leffen is already throwing out the pre-johns so his mental game isn't going to be up to par anyway.
This is nonsense. Either you think that Melee's results are so predictable that it doesn't really matter who you play against because the outcome will be the same -- in which case Leffen shouldn't care about seeding because he's going to land somewhere just below the podium anyway -- or you think they're not and seeding does matter -- in which case Leffen shouldn't care about the seeding in this instance because the system is working as intended and Plup is who his results say he should play against.

If he doesn't want to play other players in winners then he'd better start taking some intentional Ls.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#18
Yeah, this is just the nature of round robin groups for seeding. It's not any different than when upsets occur in bracket so some players get easier paths.
 

Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
649
#19
Actually, I am coming around to Leffen's thinking on this one. What is really bad about this situation is that the players knew which outcomes resulted in which matchups, creating an incentive to throw. There should never be an incentive to throw (because it means people will throw) and it's bad design that creates one. If you're going to have that kind of transparency, players should be fighting for the ability to choose their placement, not for a particular outcome.

It's not quite analogous to a non-invitational where there are so many players involved that gaming the system in this way becomes impractical. This is a sixteen-man bracket.

I think what I said before is still true, but tournaments need to be ran to prevent metagaming or there will be metagaming. You can ban players for throwing but you can't ban them for losing a game that it was advantageous for them to lose.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#21
Leffen complains about his seeding, wins anyway.

I love Summit, I could watch one of these a month.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#23
Glad to see a Melee thread here, that Wizzy & Armada set was nuts, feel so bad for Wizzy but he pretty much threw it away.
I legit think a lot of the top 20 have more of a mental block against Armada than anything. They have all the skill needed, they just choke when they get close.
 
Oct 25, 2017
752
Germany
#24
Breaks my heart that Amsa and S2J had to face each other in the first round of the lower bracket, I love to watch both of them :(
The same applies to Axe and M2K.

I hope Amsa can attend to the next Summit, his team with Axe was so fun to watch:

https://clips.twitch.tv/AmazonianTiredArmadilloKreygasm

I love Summit, I could watch one of these a month.
The Summit is by far my favourite Smash event. So many good sets.

EDIT: Also f*** Wizzy for always taking forever to start playing :p
 

FZZ

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,159
#25
Wizzy has gone to one Summit and has made top 8

S2J has gone to every single summit and has yet to make top 8

LMFAO fuck every single mang0 fan (because we really know the reason he gets in every single time) that continues to vote him in, come on guys.
 

Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
649
#26
Amsa getting knocked out so early is a disappointment but their doubles performance was bonkers.

Absolutely bonkers.

Wizzy has gone to one Summit and has made top 8

S2J has gone to every single summit and has yet to make top 8

LMFAO fuck every single mang0 fan (because we really know the reason he gets in every single time) that continues to vote him in, come on guys.
I'm not a Mang0 fan at all and I like S2J. It's especially not fair to generalize in this context since S2J is playing possibly the best he's ever played.
 

FZZ

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,159
#27
Every player levels up when they go to summit

S2J has been to 5 and has shown no great improvement until recently

Even then he still doesn't make top 8 at summit

smh
 
Oct 25, 2017
752
Germany
#30
Holy hell ...

I'm a huge Armada fan, but Hbox really really deserved this. I guess now he's the Number 1 for this year. Also rip 5-peat :(
 
Oct 25, 2017
57
#31
Yeah Hbox is pretty undisputably #1. Nice for him I guess, even though I'm not a big fan of him or his playstyle. He definitely deserves it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
752
Germany
#34
Now the question is: What can the top players do about Hbox's Puff?
He has practiced his worst matchup so much and so now even the best Foxes can't beat him anymore.
 

Sami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,028
#36
Now the question is: What can the top players do about Hbox's Puff?
He has practiced his worst matchup so much and so now even the best Foxes can't beat him anymore.
Get better.

That's not to discount the absolutely immense, incredible skill that all these top players have at all. But there really isn't any other option. Nobody plays Peach like Armada and he looked infallible last year, but then everybody kept getting better.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#38
It will take time for PPMD to reach the level of the top players, assuming he ever does. Leffen was in the running for #1 in the world before his VISA issues and he's only recently started getting back to that level. PPMD has been out for a lot longer, and been away from the game more as far as I know. I don't think he'll quite be like Ken, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up "just" being top-15 or so for a long time.

It's pushing 3 years since he was last actively playing. In the few tournaments he's entered since he's looked several steps behind the other top level players.
 
Oct 25, 2017
752
Germany
#39
I'd love to see PPMD coming back, I've started following competitive Melee around EVO 2015, so I haven't seen him playing a lot.
I really love watching Marth, but M2k and Shroomed are using him a lot less and so there are just PewPew U and The Moon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
193
#41
I legit think a lot of the top 20 have more of a mental block against Armada than anything. They have all the skill needed, they just choke when they get close.
I think this is very true and what's interesting is that this situation is similar to what we're seeing with the top players vs. Hbox now. Which is crazy to me, it feels like the conversations around "is Hbox even a god?" weren't that long ago, which is a testament to how much he has improved the past two years.
 
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Chaosblade

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,369
#46
lowqualitybait.jpg

Tipped Off 12 this weekend. I probably could have gone but I suck too much for it to be worthwhile, and my grandparents are in town this weekend.

Hope the tournament is successful, heard they were struggling with it.