Yeah, it obviously is a mixup, but the wavedash is still unreactable, so you can threaten it if you're in the right position. Some characters also don't have the ledge dash option (Marth for example). I don't know how good these options are that M2K mentions in his video because I have basically no experience against ledgestalling, but I do think he has a point when he says that most players don't know how to deal with it. I also think he is right in his argument that a lot of the times a LGL actually favours Jigglypuff because it can float in the air for a while before regrabbing the ledge, so it will regrab the ledge far less often than other characters when ledgestalling. For this reason he at least wants the LGL for Jigglypuff to be significantly lower. He also said they did this in Brawl for Meta Knight.M2K's counterplay seems unreliable, it gets beat by a ledge dash because you have to approach the ledge, generally backwards, before you can WD OOS to ledge
IIRC even with all his ledge shenanigans he still only does 40-50 ledge grabs at most. 60 basically requires genuine, blatant stalling, it's a pretty fair number.Yoshi getting hurt is the only thing that makes me worried about it. I'm going to be crushed the first time a high tier main starts playing for timeouts against aMSa. Which will definitely happen. ;_;
(I'm also not sure how he's going to beat Hbox with a LGL... :/)
All in all I think it will be good for the game.
I also think he is right in his argument that a lot of the times a LGL actually favours Jigglypuff because it can float in the air for a while before regrabbing the ledge, so it will regrab the ledge far less often than other characters when ledgestalling. For this reason he at least wants the LGL for Jigglypuff to be significantly lower. He also said they did this in Brawl for Meta Knight.
2019 melee is beautiful. I'm still an axe fanboy but wizzy and zain continuing to climb and amsa holding on have all been awesome too.
I swear, Mang0-Axe wednesday must have been magn0's secret plot to save melee by tricking axe into training harder.
Wizzy and Axe at 2 and 3 feels so reactionary, but I guess it's accurate. Hard to argue anyone above them. Either way I hope they hold and/or keep rising up, they're big highlights for the game.
semi off topic but BIG LEFF DID IT
probably the most hype set of ultimate i've ever seen lol. entire venue was watching. even hbox was getting hype after leff won lol.
I doubt those long boring combos are also guaranteed kill combos though, and even then I'm curious what you're talking about because that sounds ridiculous and nothing comes to mind from any fighting game I've played. :PSo many fighting games have repetitive combos that last longer than wobbling usually does, that I never saw it as an issue.
There was a Summit where Bananas I think(?) faced Leffen and won from getting the grabs into wobbles and it was one of the most hype and tense matches I've watched. Was at the edge of my seat.
I know there's arguments for local-level play where it may ruin the tourney experience for a lot of people who aren't world-level competition, and that's really the only argument I've seen that resonates with me. But the thought of banning a tool from a character that rarely ever sqweaks into top 8 at majors leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm still amazed people want to ban it so bad TBH. It's like a less extreme version of banning grabs in SF2 at the arcade because salt. Can we ban waveshines and Puff's rest too? (That last question was sarcasm, although I've seen people legitimately argue in favor of those.)
Also I missed SmashCon WTF.
I doubt those long boring combos are also guaranteed kill combos though, and even then I'm curious what you're talking about because that sounds ridiculous and nothing comes to mind from any fighting game I've played. :P
So many fighting games have repetitive combos that last longer than wobbling usually does, that I never saw it as an issue.
There was a Summit where Bananas I think(?) faced Leffen and won from getting the grabs into wobbles and it was one of the most hype and tense matches I've watched. Was at the edge of my seat.
I know there's arguments for local-level play where it may ruin the tourney experience for a lot of people who aren't world-level competition, and that's really the only argument I've seen that resonates with me. But the thought of banning a tool from a character that rarely ever sqweaks into top 8 at majors leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm still amazed people want to ban it so bad TBH. It's like a less extreme version of banning grabs in SF2 at the arcade because salt. Can we ban waveshines and Puff's rest too? (That last question was sarcasm, although I've seen people legitimately argue in favor of those.)
Also I missed SmashCon WTF.
The problem with wobbling is that it's a single punish that completely circumvents actually playing Melee.
Sure, but those ToDs usually are a little harder to do than rhythmically pressing one button over and over and require the player to either spend a ton of resources to net the kill or are very situational. Like yeah Bardock and Cell have ToDs that aren't absurdly hard to do but also you need to start your combo with a specific heavily telegraphed move in neutral, have both assists, and burn your Sparking. I've never heard of a ToD that started off of an L or tick throw anywhere on the field that wasted no resources.Melee has 4 stocks, it's not exactly a "guaranteed kill" by FG standards.
Games with multiple characters like the vs series are ripe with TODs for that same reason, where the match isn't over just because one health bar was depleted. You can claim they're not boring, but after watching them thousands of times, they very much are.
Tons of anime fighters have BnBs that last 15+ seconds (yes wobbling can potentially last much longer but the average time required to attain kill % tends to not be longer than that, as it's not like ICs manage to start their wobbles with the opponent at low percent every single time).
Don't get me started on older games. Sailor Moon is played as a side tourney at like every big FGC major and that games has infinites up the wazoo.