Congress Releases Barr's summary of the Mueller Report (SEE STAFF POST)

DarthWalden

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,473
For example, I live in the Bible Belt of Texas. This is Trump Country. Outside of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, and El Paso, I can tell you a shitload of people have Fox News on all day.

Now, I’m a teacher. The majority of my co-workers are conservative Trump people, but when it comes to issues that effect them, they vote Blue. We saw this with Mike Collier almost heating Dan Patrick. Beto almost bearing Cruz, and Abbot not winning by a landslide!

Collier only ran on public education and nearly killed Patrick. Now the Republican want to actually start paying teachers in TX and give to public education.

Run on the issues. Forget about Russian and Trump. 5,343,834 teachers are a lot of votes. Had nothing to do with Trump. It was about the issues.
This!

It's becoming clearer by the day.

Democrats are far more concerned with smear campaigns and painting their political opponent in a bad light than campaigning on actual issues.

Thats why Bernie was such a fresh air, even though I don't necessarily agree with it, he had a clear message that people could latch onto.
 

OuterLimits

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
987
Just curious. The whole not exonerate seems odd to me. Don't you need to be charged with a crime to be exonerated? Don't prosecutors decide whether the evidence warrants bringing charges of not? Either there is or is not enough evidence to prosecute ?The whole, "Well, Trump isn't being accused of committing a crime, but isn't exonerated either" just seems bizarre.

maybe Mueller was like "screw this, I just going to say "No conclusion" on this obstruction shit and punt the ball.
 

Uncle at Nintendo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 3, 2018
3,865
Y'all are crazy if you think this has any effect on 2020. Reminder that a sitting US governor wore blackface, I bet everyone forgot his name already.
Northam

And it was only last month too. Bottom line is, is that Americans have the attention span of an ant.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,218
I read some of this thread before reading the letter and boy was that a mistake. I thought it was going to be a “totally clears the President” type of phrasing, but it’s some buuuuuullshit instead. So fucking livid after reading the letter.

1) clearly confirms that Russia meddled in the election in multiple ways - which was the point of the investigation- and it feels like a lot of people don’t give a shit. Russia wanted Trump and helped elect him. This needs to be repeated.
2) defined “colluding” as narrowly as possible. Saying they had to “knowingly” engage with the “Russian government”. That means if they didn’t know the person they spoke to was a Russian agent, didn’t count or that communications with 3rd parties like Wikileaks don’t count.
3) Mueller totally passed the buck on obstruction. It seems incredibly obvious he thinks Trump is guilty because the letter says how he wanted to avoid wading into the very tricky legal questions of charging or subpeonaing a president but that he also presented a whole lot of examples of how it could be shown he obstructed. So he left it to the AG. If Mueller thought he wasn’t guilty, he’d just say he couldn’t find anything to support it. Not this bizarre list of “do what you will with this”. And if Barr read what Mueller wrote as clearly saying he was innocent, he’d have said so. Instead he again narrowly defines the criteria and says he didn’t personally think it fit that.


So fucking mad. Not that I expected this to be some slam dunk, but how easily people allow themselves to buy into whatever bullshit narrative republicans want to spin on this. Russia actively meddled in the election. They repeatedly tried to coordinate with Trump. Trump then tried in many ways to obstruct the investigation. That’s all in the letter.
 

stew

Member
Dec 2, 2017
3,959
Just curious. The whole not exonerate seems odd to me. Don't you need to be charged with a crime to be exonerated? Don't prosecutors decide whether the evidence warrants bringing charges of not? Either there is or is not enough evidence to prosecute ?The whole, "Well, Trump isn't being accused of committing a crime, but isn't exonerated either" just seems bizarre.

maybe Mueller was like "screw this, I just going to say "No conclusion" on this obstruction shit and punt the ball.
Some legal experts assumed that Mueller wanted to leave it to Congress, but Barr made the decision himself.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
Just curious. The whole not exonerate seems odd to me. Don't you need to be charged with a crime to be exonerated? Don't prosecutors decide whether the evidence warrants bringing charges of not? Either there is or is not enough evidence to prosecute ?The whole, "Well, Trump isn't being accused of committing a crime, but isn't exonerated either" just seems bizarre.

maybe Mueller was like "screw this, I just going to say "No conclusion" on this obstruction shit and punt the ball.
I think the issue is you have to prove intent.

If it ultimately comes down to one of two situations, either...
A, Trump fired Comey because he was trying to cover up his, or his people's collusion, or
B, Trump was trying to kill an investigation he believed was pointless.
You can't prove A without also being able to prove collusion, which we can be quite sure at this point that Mueller can't prove right now.
 

BadAss2961

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,069
No, like I said, she and the Dems fucked up from the start. When they didn't have power, that was the time to bomb the airwaves with these piling misdeeds, and stop letting the news cycles dictate your thoughts, you have to dictate the news cycle. Repubs have an advantage with Fox News, but there are ways to get around that. It requires a bit of conviction though. And calling out the media for their bullshit, and they let Trump have that one too. Like how the Repubs seemingly have embedded in a lot of Americans' heads that tech companies favor the Democrats, despite literally all of reality saying fuck no.

And that's only 1 and 2, which helps put more pressure on the Repubs by going directly at the people. The 3rd deals with what you're doing when you finally have some of the power back. They should have been firing subpoenas off every day instead of this couple a month activity dribble, for quite literally everything. Get as much information and documents as you can as fast as you can, which will of course help you build the case for impeachment. If you want to play the game, then sure, you're not going to impeach first day because you don't have the votes. Doesn't stop you from further dominating the news cycles and laying out every dirty thing the admin has done.

Now, it's like they're starting from behind. They're still in investigatory mode because they were compelled to by Mueller's ongoing investigations. What I'm talking about is a 2 year monumental failure by Dem leadership and most members of the Democrat party. Should've been going after everything, Trump AND the GOP as an apparatus. That shutdown should never have been framed as Trump vs Pelosi/Schumer. Never.

Alas, , the work continues. So now while Dems continue to gain access into the actual report, not Barr's 4 page interpretation, they can also feel free to unload on all the other shit they've hopefully just been holding off during the wait.
The news cycle and conversation has been dominated by Trump's misdeeds this whole term though. CNN and MSNBC cover it all day every day, while Fox spins and counters as essentially state run media.

I think House Dems have been fairly aggressive. It's only been 2 months. They've grilled Whitaker, Cohen, Nielsen, have other Trump associates cued up, and even went as far as considering talking to the Trump/Kraft Spa Lady. You can count on them calling up Barr and Mueller now too.

I don't think the shutdown becoming Trump vs Nancy and Chuck was intentional, but I don't think it matters because Trump definitely lost that battle.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Blaming the media for reporting the facts. Stay Glenning, audioboxer.
All I said was it's painful. Compare and contrast that to hours of BBC or Sky News and there isn't much of the over-stylized use of "bombshell/beginning of the end/Theresa May is done" when talking about our messes with Brexit. As I said, even that cut up reel makes me think some of your use of rhetoric could be toned back when doing news.

Got me thinking maybe over-whipping people into a frenzy of expectation that Trump is gone any second, doesn't help when something like this drops and everyone is left feeling disappointed, upset and confused. The certainty around impeachment was almost a case of if someone said they weren't sure they'd get called a Russian bot.

But you do you, I guess this place will now begin the everyone is Russian who disagrees with me phase. No blaming any media for reporting facts in the moment, commenting I think the specific use of language and phrases sometimes do not help. More so the overreliance on phrases that imply certainty/over-confidence.

Maybe what that poster earlier who quoted me was trying to get at with the certainty around WMD nonsense. Still, I feel that isn't a good example to compare to, and I've said why already.
 
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OuterLimits

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
987
Some legal experts assumed that Mueller wanted to leave it to Congress, but Barr made the decision himself.
Regardless, that is still punting the ball and not deciding whether he thought it reached the level of bringing charges. Congress would then just become another partisan battle since he didn't conclude either way. Especially with the no collusion part.
 

Bliman

User Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2019
1,443
That doesn't address the issue that Trump won by controlling the narrative and getting free publicity.

All the outrageous stuff he says or does drowns out the other candidates, because the media love the free clicks on his BS.

So while the Dem candidate will try and talk policy, Trump will make a comment that we should round up all Muslims and put them into camps and the media will spend the next few days talking about that and "both sides" the issue like they always do.
You need a candidate that can dismantle Trump's tactics. He is as clear as can be. You know his standpoints by now you know his tactics by now.
You just have to corner him. Like the antivaccination thing. Everyone knows how stupid it was. But Trump let's it flow out there and nobody countered him well. Just pin him on the facts. And when he tries to escape, then don't let him escape. Keep pushing him in the same debate.
And you and this is very important have to have the ability to scale your rhetoric very easily. You must sound like a man that is talking like you are in a café and also have to ability to scale that up to and be very intelligent and also practical.
Democrats can have great points, like healthcare, climate change (you can earn much more money now to go with the technology then to fight it), School. But it will all depend on the delivery.
If people will have the feeling that it is preachy, dishonost and only for the rich then they will turn against the candidate.
They even believed Trump and he is a rich dishonost guy when he rallied against the elite.
Media are still learning there lessons, and Trump has benefitted a lot from the media. But he has almost exhausted all he can take from the media. You see it more and more. Trump can do anything and it isn't impressive anymore to people. People are tired of that. They want real solutions but they need someone who talks like them but is also seen as very smart and who will not go on the attack in a vile way.
 

Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016
This day is tough enough as it is. But if Liberty U had also won...I...I just can't.
You want a shitty day? I just heard the news that Trump is spiking footballs into America's nuts. And then, before I go out with my family, my neighbors comes by and informs me that my cat drowned in her pool. I go over to the pool and I see her floating there, stiff and lifeless. I put her in a bag and prepare to bury her later. WE talk about it, but we decide to go out anyway. Everyone's in a sour mood. Then, as we open the front door, my cat comes out from behind our couch, meowing to get out. Sure enough, the cat that drowned, despite having the same identical fur pattern... was another random cat. After an up and down 30 minutes like that, I kinda got in that 'none of this Trump shit matters.' Like, I"m done giving him room in my head. I know he's a scumbag, and nothing will change that. So, time to focus on a positive candidate in whom I can believe.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,489
You want a shitty day? I just heard the news that Trump is spiking footballs into America's nuts. And then, before I go out with my family, my neighbors comes by and informs me that my cat drowned in her pool. I go over to the pool and I see her floating there, stiff and lifeless. I put her in a bag and prepare to bury her later. WE talk about it, but we decide to go out anyway. Everyone's in a sour mood. Then, as we open the front door, my cat comes out from behind our couch, meowing to get out. Sure enough, the cat that drowned, despite having the same identical fur pattern... was another random cat. After an up and down 30 minutes like that, I kinda got in that 'none of this Trump shit matters.' Like, I"m done giving him room in my head. I know he's a scumbag, and nothing will change that. So, time to focus on a positive candidate in whom I can believe.
Sounds like your day turned out not so shitty since your cat basically arose from the dead, to your perceptions... congrats btw?
 

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,290
Key to Beat Trump

1. Run a clean, likable candidate
2. Run an optimistic candidate who is here to do good for America, promotes positive change for the better. Don't run a "anything but Trump, anti Trump campaign". Too often in modern politics the party wanting in power just says the opposite of one in power.
3. Focus on the issues, the politics, completely ignore attack ads. Everyone knows everything Trump does and says, run a clean attack free campaign and ignore Trump going off the deep end with his attacks and he won't know what to do. React and you play into his hands. Talk about taxes and healthcare and when he starts calling you misspelled nicknames, ignore it and keep the course.
I couldn't disagree more. Trump is the class clown and bully all rolled in to one, and people listen to what he says. Being the brainy do gooder will not win over enough people. He needs to be mocked and belittled by a worthy candidate. Someone that not only has better ideas, but better jabs and comebacks.
 

stew

Member
Dec 2, 2017
3,959
I think the issue is you have to prove intent.

If it ultimately comes down to one of two situations, either...
A, Trump fired Comey because he was trying to cover up his, or his people's collusion, or
B, Trump was trying to kill an investigation he believed was pointless.
You can't prove A without also being able to prove collusion, which we can be quite sure at this point that Mueller can't prove right now.
The problem for Trump is that he tried to obstruct justice many times, even when it was not directly related to the collusion case. He went as far as using his pardon power, having his lawyers edit testimony, tampering with witnesses.

I think this explains the "doesn't exonerate Trump" part, it should be up to the Congress even if the DOJ don't decide to charge him.
 
May 30, 2018
1,244
You know how Trump won right? People keep attacking him and bringing up the dumb shit he does and says.

You go after him for policy, platform or actual politics and you destroy him.
No, Trump won because he was able to stand out amongst the other Republican Candidates

His Muslim Ban, The Wall, these policies were so wildly out there that he got traction and just kept gaining steam.


Legit, does anyone remember any policy other Repubs proposed? No, unless you're a hardcore political guy who follows this stuff daily

IMO for Dems to counter him, they need some similarly wild policies that will hype up their base to come out (on top of them being naturally energized to kick out Trump) And it needs to come from a tough shit talking kind of guy

I'm not even trolling,this is the way to counter Trump. You need to match his delusional self confidence. Nobody wants some boring ass guy like Beto or Biden, they want a firebrand.

Now who that is, idk, maybe avenatti lmao
 

Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016
Sounds like your day turned out not so shitty since your cat basically arose from the dead, to your perceptions...
Yep. All the shit you think is shitty ain't nearly as bad as it could get. That's the lesson I learned. I suppose a religious man might call it providence. But I wouldn't go that far. Just one hell of a relief.
 

Wonderment

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,916
Back on topic of the summary released, was there not one paragraph in the whole Mueller report that was positive, or even neutral towards Trump that they could have quoted?
 

Ortix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,438
No, Trump won because he was able to stand out amongst the other Republican Candidates

His Muslim Ban, The Wall, these policies were so wildly out there that he got traction and just kept gaining steam.


Legit, does anyone remember any policy other Repubs proposed? No, unless you're a hardcore political guy who follows this stuff daily

IMO for Dems to counter him, they need some similarly wild policies that will hype up their base to come out (on top of them being naturally energized to kick out Trump) And it needs to come from a tough shit talking kind of guy

I'm not even trolling,this is the way to counter Trump. You need to match his delusional self confidence. Nobody wants some boring ass guy like Beto or Biden, they want a firebrand.

Now who that is, idk, maybe avenatti lmao
Democrats are a very different base. Going crazy is a stupid idea.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,962
If the those running will shut up about Russia and Trump and talk about the real issues. If they all go after Trump, they are continuing the same cycle that will get the Democratic Party nowhere.
Biden is still scared because he knows he won’t raise as much as Beto did in one day. Maybe if Beto let the Russia/Trump stuff go, Trump would have a real contender. Beto can save us, if he doesn’t follow what the Democratic Party has been doing since 2016.
With Texas as Purple as it is, if you want it to go Blue, don’t do what you’ve been doing. Anti-Trump Run will not win.
I never said they were not, but let Russia and Trump go. Beto saying that, “Without a shadow of a doubt, Trump colluded with Russia...” doesn’t help him outside of a message board as progressive as this. The majority of Americans are here: “No Collusion.”
You and all the other jackasses posting these “Democrats are only Anti-Trump” takes over and over aren’t slick. We see you.

That’s not what Democrats did to win 40 House seats in 2018 and it’s not what they’re gonna do in 2020 to win so knock off the disingenuous bullshit.
 

Piggus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,130
Ashland, Oregon
The thing is, those qualities are not a problem for most of the Americans that vote. President going down in flames because of a scandal, they might care about that. But white supremacy? That's a selling point, not a weakness.

That's why people fear Trump will win 2020.
Not true. He lost the popular vote by millions, and in the 2018 midterms republicans lost by the widest popular vote margin ever. The republicans did especially bad in the Midwest, where Trump very narrowly had enough votes to win the electoral college. I know it’s easy to just throw your hands up and say everyone’s a racist and there’s no hope. But in a year and half everyone’s going to forget about this and will be focused on one of Trump’s other numerous scandals.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
I read some of this thread before reading the letter and boy was that a mistake. I thought it was going to be a “totally clears the President” type of phrasing, but it’s some buuuuuullshit instead. So fucking livid after reading the letter.

1) clearly confirms that Russia meddled in the election in multiple ways - which was the point of the investigation- and it feels like a lot of people don’t give a shit. Russia wanted Trump and helped elect him. This needs to be repeated.
2) defined “colluding” as narrowly as possible. Saying they had to “knowingly” engage with the “Russian government”. That means if they didn’t know the person they spoke to was a Russian agent, didn’t count or that communications with 3rd parties like Wikileaks don’t count.
3) Mueller totally passed the buck on obstruction. It seems incredibly obvious he thinks Trump is guilty because the letter says how he wanted to avoid wading into the very tricky legal questions of charging or subpeonaing a president but that he also presented a whole lot of examples of how it could be shown he obstructed. So he left it to the AG. If Mueller thought he wasn’t guilty, he’d just say he couldn’t find anything to support it. Not this bizarre list of “do what you will with this”. And if Barr read what Mueller wrote as clearly saying he was innocent, he’d have said so. Instead he again narrowly defines the criteria and says he didn’t personally think it fit that.


So fucking mad. Not that I expected this to be some slam dunk, but how easily people allow themselves to buy into whatever bullshit narrative republicans want to spin on this. Russia actively meddled in the election. They repeatedly tried to coordinate with Trump. Trump then tried in many ways to obstruct the investigation. That’s all in the letter.
Where I'm at. This summary is some real bullshit. Barr writes a 20 page memo delegitimizing the Mueller investigation as a private citizen, but this 4 page memo compiled over 2 days supposedly is the SCO's conclusion for 2 years of massive developments and materials?

And the narrow focusing is painfully explicit. Oleg Deripaska and Kilimnick are excluded. Roger Stone and Wikileaks are excluded. George Nader is excluded, along with Erik Prince. It's literally the main avenues of Russian collusion and Trump conspiracy that people were focused on the most, and none of those would fit that definition. Thankfully, as far as I know, most of those investigations are still ongoing elsewhere.

As are the investigations into countries not named Russia who also had a giant hand in some criminal shit during and after the election. Hopefully we hear more on those in the near future as we wait for the actual report and congressional testimonies.
 

OuterLimits

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
987
Reports are saying that Trump "is in the best mood since election night". Well, I guess he is. Damn. Firing Sessions and hiring Barr was a good move on his part it seems.
 

Bliman

User Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2019
1,443
No, Trump won because he was able to stand out amongst the other Republican Candidates

His Muslim Ban, The Wall, these policies were so wildly out there that he got traction and just kept gaining steam.


Legit, does anyone remember any policy other Repubs proposed? No, unless you're a hardcore political guy who follows this stuff daily

IMO for Dems to counter him, they need some similarly wild policies that will hype up their base to come out (on top of them being naturally energized to kick out Trump) And it needs to come from a tough shit talking kind of guy

I'm not even trolling,this is the way to counter Trump. You need to match his delusional self confidence. Nobody wants some boring ass guy like Beto or Biden, they want a firebrand.

Now who that is, idk, maybe avenatti lmao
If you do that. Then you have already lost. You don't fight fire with fire. You most of the time put water on it.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I couldn't disagree more. Trump is the class clown and bully all rolled in to one, and people listen to what he says. Being the brainy do gooder will not win over enough people. He needs to be mocked and belittled by a worthy candidate. Someone that not only has better ideas, but better jabs and comebacks.
Have you seen the internet? The right pretty much always "win" at trolling, taking the piss, memes, jabs and comebacks.

Like that poster said, you need to run someone who isn't phased by someone else trying to get under their skin who walks away looking superior every time. It didn't work for Clinton trying to do the basket of deplorables and deep dive into the dangers of Pepe memes. Don't make that mistake again under the guise of "to defeat Trump we just need to be better at mocking him".

Your media mocks him 24/7, sets the expectation that because of how stupid he is, how orange he is and how easy he is to mock, he's going to be defeated any second. Playing into that video on the last page and the hysterics online right now where right-wing twitter and beyond are running a mocking factory. They think he's undefeatable, some of this side are overconfident at how easy he is to defeat.

The more you build up your mocking and belittling, and he survives, the harder the loss for your side. Engaging in that kind of warfare to defeat Trump will almost always backfire. Doesn't mean a candidate can't pull some punches back, but if you expect a reality TV show circus to favour defeating Trump, proceed with caution.

You need someone as cool and composed as Obama. Wanting "the lefts" version of Trump is a schoolboy error.
 

BadAss2961

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,069
Even as someone who isn't an American, watching this now is painful


You guys really let your media circus get out of control at times. It really is reality TV viewing for the rest of the world.
To be fair, just about every Trump scandal would be enough to bury anyone else.

Because of Trump, we've only now figured out just how far the modern GOP has fallen. They've kept him alive.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
If you do that. Then you have already lost. You don't fight fire with fire. You most of the time put water on it.
It's not a fire though, it's a guy. You can't make a false analogy and then point to it as evidence of its own accuracy.

Trump is a liar and an idiot. The dems have to run someone who isn't going to shy away from that at every turn. I hate it when people won't use his name, it makes them look weak, like they can't go toe to toe. It's not enough to just have better policies, you have to at least match him in public appeal, and that is one of the biggest issues right now. The left are failing to even acknowledge that people find Trump compelling. Be loud, be aggressive, just don't be outrageous or wrong.

People point to the failings of the electoral college, but Trump was entirely right, he fought the fight that existed, not the hypothetical one where the popular vote wins. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight, I think is a much more apt analogy than your own.
 

stew

Member
Dec 2, 2017
3,959
Where I'm at. This summary is some real bullshit. Barr writes a 20 page memo delegitimizing the Mueller investigation as a private citizen, but this 4 page memo compiled over 2 days supposedly is the SCO's conclusion for 2 years of massive developments and materials?

And the narrow focusing is painfully explicit. Oleg Deripaska and Kilimnick are excluded. Roger Stone and Wikileaks are excluded. George Nader is excluded, along with Erik Prince. It's literally the main avenues of Russian collusion and Trump conspiracy that people were focused on the most, and none of those would fit that definition. Thankfully, as far as I know, most of those investigations are still ongoing elsewhere.

As are the investigations into countries not named Russia who also had a giant hand in some criminal shit during and after the election. Hopefully we hear more on those in the near future as we wait for the actual report and congressional testimonies.
The House Committees should subpoena them all and make the hearings public, since Barr don't want us to know about it.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
17,072
It's sad and not in the least surprising to see both Huckaliar and Trump claiming "total exoneration" even though the summary they received from their own guy literally said, "does not exonerate the President". I know they're going to spin, but they could at least pick a different word so it's not quite so obvious they're lying. I guess it doesn't matter though, the base will eat it up, and their comments will be reposted and quoted everywhere until their version of it becomes the truth.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,504
Denver
So what’s left to throw at this guy. He just gets too free wheel it now?
His huge tax cut for the rich, his failure to address healthcare problems, his inhumane actions on immigration, and the accelerating death of manufacturing jobs he ran on saving.

In other words, the exact same stuff Democrats won on in 2018. And maybe there can even be more attention from the media on that stuff too, though I'm not holding my breath.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,459
Atlanta GA
I wasn't expecting this to suddenly end his presidency. It's just frustrating when we keep seeing people die at the hands of those who worship Trump. He is a disease in this world and he needs to be removed ASAP.
 

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,290
Have you seen the internet? The right pretty much always "win" at trolling, taking the piss, memes, jabs and comebacks.

Like that poster said, you need to run someone who isn't phased by someone else trying to get under their skin who walks away looking superior every time. It didn't work for Clinton trying to do the basket of deplorables and deep dive into the dangers of Pepe memes. Don't make that mistake again under the guise of "to defeat Trump we just need to be better at mocking him".

Your media mocks him 24/7, sets the expectation that because of how stupid he is, how orange he is and how easy he is to mock, he's going to be defeated any second. Playing into that video on the last page and the hysterics online right now where right-wing twitter and beyond are running a mocking factory. They think he's undefeatable, some of this side are overconfident at how easy he is to defeat.

The more you build up your mocking and belittling, and he survives, the harder the loss for your side. Engaging in that kind of warfare to defeat Trump will almost always backfire. Doesn't mean a candidate can't pull some punches back, but if you expect a reality TV show circus to favour defeating Trump, proceed with caution.

You need someone as cool and composed as Obama. Wanting "the lefts" version of Trump is a schoolboy error.
I don't want the left's version of Trump. You HAVE to also be smarter. But allowing the bully to go about his beatings unabated is the true school boy error. We already saw "when they go low, we go high." It failed. Punch back or be destroyed. Stand there with your dick in your hand like the rest of the GOP did in 2016 and you will absolutely lose. The public believes the person that controls the room.
 

HamSandwich

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,644
I can't help but shake my head at the doom and gloom in this thread. This is a guy who for three years could not get the majority of Americans on his side in the approval ratings. Mueller was never going to be the end of Trump, he was never going to come out and say "this guy fucking did it". The American public did not care about the Russia investigation. The Dems have more than enough ammunition to bring him down in 2020. You dont need evidence of Russian collusion to do it. He tried to take away people's healthcare, the middle and lower class now have to pay more during tax season because of his new tax plan. You beat him because of his terrible moves and policies, not because of this report.
 

InspectorJones

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,044
I couldn't disagree more. Trump is the class clown and bully all rolled in to one, and people listen to what he says. Being the brainy do gooder will not win over enough people. He needs to be mocked and belittled by a worthy candidate. Someone that not only has better ideas, but better jabs and comebacks.
If only AOC was old enough...but I agree. Having a nice positive campaign sounds great in a conventional campaign, but Trump runs anything but a conventional campaign. Someone needs to mop the floor with him on the debate stage publically for everyone to see.
 

MrRob

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,671
I will bet my house that more than one of the members of the special counsel is sitting back right now seething that two years of their work is being recapped like a shitty book report compiled from reading cliff notes and one of them will be coming out this week with a giant leak that will completely change the narrative.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,890
So what’s left to throw at this guy. He just gets too free wheel it now?
There are at least 4 major investigations already in place stemming from the Special Counsel, and likely at least another coming from Michael Cohen's testimony regarding insurance fraud. Unlike the conspiracy investigation, most of these will have concrete evidence and a domestic paper trail because they're in-country financial crimes. This doesn't include any counter-intelligence or conduct investigations that don't require the same legal standard, and the fact that the House is going to pick up the obstruction case.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,459
Atlanta GA
I will bet my house that more than one of the members of the special counsel is sitting back right now seething that two years of their work is being recapped like a shitty book report compiled from reading cliff notes and one of them will be coming out this week with a giant leak that will completely change the narrative.
These fanfiction takes need to stop, it's how we got to what we're feeling today.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
I can't help but shake my head at the doom and gloom in this thread. This is a guy who for three years could not get the majority of Americans on his side in the approval ratings. Mueller was never going to be the end of Trump, he was never going to come out and say "this guy fucking did it". The American public did not care about the Russia investigation. The Dems have more than enough ammunition to bring him down in 2020. You dont need evidence of Russian collusion to do it. He tried to take away people's healthcare, the middle and lower class now have to pay more during tax season because of his new tax plan. You beat him because of his terrible moves and policies, not because of this report.
This is not in the bag for the Dems, not by a very long shot. The fact that people are being realistic about that is not 'negative' or 'defeatist'. A sitting President, at the front of a strong economy is going to be a real fight unless he's entirely engulfed in scandal when the time comes, which of course, is still very much a possibility.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,928
His huge tax cut for the rich, his failure to address healthcare problems, his inhumane actions on immigration, and the accelerating death of manufacturing jobs he ran on saving.

In other words, the exact same stuff Democrats won on in 2018. And maybe there can even be more attention from the media on that stuff too, though I'm not holding my breath.
Will democrats have any actual real legislation they pass in 2019 and 2020 that is meaningful to a majority of Americans? Here is what they have passed so far with 3 months in power in the house:

S-24: pay employees furloughed during shutdown backpay
HR-251: extend by 15 months the homeland security's anti-terrorism chemical facility funding
HR-259: some technical minutae about medicaid funding
HR-430: extends through June 30th TANF grants (temporary assistance for needy families)
HR 28 & 31: partial govt funding during shutdown and continued funding the rest of the year
S-47: updates the national resources management act
S-49: names a dept of VA office in Utah
HR 483: pesticide registration improvement act
HR 439: something about the charter of the national future farmers of america


So uh in their first 100 days of office... nothing really that notable. Hope democrats pass some actual legislation while they control the house, even if Trump or the senate doesn't pass it they still need to show what they want to do and why electing democrats to the other two places will help them achieve their goals.