Democracy cannot survive without an educated and engaged citizenry. Forty percent of US citizens don't vote, if more join them authoritarianism is sure to follow.
Congress Releases Barr's summary of the Mueller Report (SEE STAFF POST)
- Thread starter B-Dubs
- Start date
I didn't??
I was pointing out that saying "Fuck it, I'm not voting in anything but local elections" is stupid. I don't see how that's "pretending voting is a fix all solution"
the release of the report is the beginning of this, not the end
Then there’s more to talk about than voting, especially to someone who specifically said they’d still vote in local elections. The narrative surrounding voting needs to change. The system, voting included, is broken. That needs to be the first thing out of your mouth.
Everything is always going to be the beginning and not the end. That's the only way to keep the media circus going.
You're telling me that telling people to vote is a bad idea now?
At this point, my happy place is that Mueller found plenty on other charges, they were outside the special counsel’s scope, and that damaging shit has been passed on to other investigations. Reps doing their victory lap while SDNY giggles over Trump’s tax returns.
I’m not sure what to do when you vote, you lose, and the winners serve their own interests and dont do their jobs. Still going to vote.
I’m not sure what to do when you vote, you lose, and the winners serve their own interests and dont do their jobs. Still going to vote.
Breaking
Mueller told Justice three weeks ago he couldn't reach a conclusion on obstruction
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/25/politics/mueller-obstruction-conclusion/index.html
Mueller told Justice three weeks ago he couldn't reach a conclusion on obstruction
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/25/politics/mueller-obstruction-conclusion/index.html
Does this make it more or less likely that Pelosi knew ahead of time, as well?
Walter Shaub stays winning.
“I‘ve been fully exonerated by a report I won’t let you see, but here’s a short letter by a man I installed as AG because he wrote an odd memo about how I couldn’t have obstructed justice after I spent a year pressuring my first AG to violate a criminal conflict of interest law.”
That’s a false dichotomy. What I’m saying is that the underlying narrative that voting will fix the range of problems we’re facing is inaccurate and dangerous. Voting is a tool, and it’s not going to save us by itself.
Okay, I never really disagreed with that from the start. I'm not sure why you seemed to think you were calling me out about something when all I was pointing out was that not voting was a bad idea.
The US democratic system is antiquated compared to the rest of the world (it's also the oldest). And that's on top of rampant legalized bribery/corruption. So you're right that the system is largely broken, which fuels voter apathy.
It isn't completely broken however so giving in to pessimism and nihilism when we all have agency to be a positive force in the world is not the answer.
Gonna presume the conclusion issue is on the concept of "precedent" when it comes to charging a President?
The GOP and Fox is gonna fuckin' love this take. They're going to take the "standard" of a President having to be charged and pushed via congress and take the fact no charges were made here to imply Trump was clean, pure, and innocent.
Despite firing Comey for the "Russia thing".
Despite trying to fire Mueller and pushing people to help end the investigation.
Completely exonerated, indeed.
Remember. Mueller could not reach a LEGAL conclusion which means there is enough to impeach Trump politically
Not sure how much longer I care to persist in a thread where Marcy Wheeler is painted as a conspiracy theorist and Glenn Greenwald is hailed as a hero.
Maybe I need to just stick to the gaming side here and talk politics somewhere else.
Maybe I need to just stick to the gaming side here and talk politics somewhere else.
The problem with impeachment, as always, is that there is zero motivation for any Republicans to go along with it if they're not under reelection threat, which means the process cannot remove Trump.
Extreme right wing / facist parties are winning elections all over the world.
It's not so much the insitution of voting, but the decay of institutions captured by late stage capitalism and their inability to push back against the fantasy of the strong, pure man that will save everyone and the nation, as the cozy plutocrats double down on what doesn't work.
This shit is nothing new. In the 30s and 40s Democrats were strong enough to push back, but only after the economic collapse of the old order.
This go around, Capitalist are cozying up to facists early thinking they can control them. I'd wager they're mistaken.
Read past garbage headline.
Mueller would not reach conclusion, not that he could not
I don't get why Mueller was afraid. I'm sure if he convicted a sitting president, he would have unleashed a shitstorm of huge proportions since it's "new, Uncharted territory" but why is it Trump can break laws and ppl just act shocked and let it happen?
It isn't fair some are using some "gentleman's agreement" while king doofus don't give 2 shits about it.
It isn't fair some are using some "gentleman's agreement" while king doofus don't give 2 shits about it.
Special counsel team told AG mueller would not conclude on obstruction because mueller could not conclude on it
Fascism and crony capitalism can easily coexist, they're natural bedfellows. It won't last however, eventually the bottom will fall out. Who knows what will happen after that.
There's a solid argument to be made that the conspiracy stuff was over-scrutinized and that people weren't being as impartial or skeptical as logic and professionalism should dictate, but the blanket erasure of all the things we've seen with our own eyes is a Jeffrey Lord-tier dogshit take. If half the reporting on Trump's past and current behavior regarding Russia was half true, it would still be more than enough to warrant investigation and for a completely reasonable to be wary of illicit ties between the two.
Correct. If Mueller could make a conclusion based on his evidence, he would have.
How is not voting a bad idea if you don’t believe in either of the candidates? I guess I should have rephrased that I don’t see myself voting anytime soon out of local issues because the corruption is ridiculous. If someone comes along and really trying to change things I’m open to be convinced. Through my own personal life experiences right now, I’m saying it’s pretty much bullshit. The corruption is too high and the system is broken.
I’ve been through this argument enough though, we’re not going to convinced each other so let’s agree to disagree. And the people trying to shame me into voting plz save it for someone else. I work in government, I know what’s actually in my control and what’s not.
Seriously. The guy has fallen off a cliff.
I'm sure Russia annexing Ukraine, hacking US networks has nothing to do with tensions. No it's the Trump-Russia story!!
Fucking apologist.
They're cozying up to Fascists because that's the only way to save their capitalist empire.
Other alternatives like socialism are non-starters.
So here we are.
Read death of democracy about how the german right wing and anti-socialists cozied up to Hitler because they thought they could control him
I dont know if Turmp is smart enough to take complete power like other Fascists could, but, if I am a fascist, I am incredibly giddy because a competent one will take power so easily in America.
I dont know if Turmp is smart enough to take complete power like other Fascists could, but, if I am a fascist, I am incredibly giddy because a competent one will take power so easily in America.
And months ago I was called every name under the sun around here for saying Mueller was a shill like every other Republican, that the investigation would be a half-assed sham with slaps on the wrist for the grunts and no consequences for the ring leaders, and that everyone on the left was embarrassing themselves for fawning over Republican law enforcement officials.
I have no doubt the majority of the dossier is true. The amount of evidence in plain, public view is just overwhelming. But there were never going to be true consequences. White collar crimes are treated like a joke in this country, and everyone thinking powerful, wealthy white men would suddenly feel the weight of the justice system upon them was being hopelessly naive.
This is a political disaster for Democrats. The media is going to roll over 150% for Trump camp's messaging on this, and independents will not believe a single negative thing about Trump that gets reported going forward. Republicans will feel more energized than ever now and Dems demoralized with a media environment even more hostile towards them than before. Starting to think we might actually lose 2020.
I have no doubt the majority of the dossier is true. The amount of evidence in plain, public view is just overwhelming. But there were never going to be true consequences. White collar crimes are treated like a joke in this country, and everyone thinking powerful, wealthy white men would suddenly feel the weight of the justice system upon them was being hopelessly naive.
This is a political disaster for Democrats. The media is going to roll over 150% for Trump camp's messaging on this, and independents will not believe a single negative thing about Trump that gets reported going forward. Republicans will feel more energized than ever now and Dems demoralized with a media environment even more hostile towards them than before. Starting to think we might actually lose 2020.
This all makes sense within the context that he was attempting to manipulate the left and the media into looking stupid.
Yup. This doesn’t end with Trump. There is a life after Trump and someone more competent is around the corner taking notes, and people already giving up and losing hope stating they won’t vote are complicit in the rise of fascist governments.
Trump has been calling the investigation a corrupt, criminal hoax for years, and suddenly Barr filters it and Trump is saying he loves it. Again, reeks of guilt. What a shitshow.
You can’t assume that at this point given what we know, so why are you?
I see you doing a lot of this kind of thing in this thread. It’s interesting.
If it wasn't possible for the case to be brought to court and possibly win, Mueller damn well would have just said "no evidence of obstruction". Prosecutors don't leave open the possibility of trying a case that they don't think can be tried.
As I said, there have been multiple leaps of logic in here, suggesting Mueller punted, or Mueller was in the bag for Trump, or that there's an elaborate cover up going on. Or all three. It's possible but highly unlikely that the report is some bombshell full of incriminating evidence some are expecting. If it were, you know Barr wouldn't be intending to release it, and you know Trump wouldn't be pushing for it.
I have collusion fatigue.
I'd rather they focus on more prescient crimes committed by Trump & his family, like the financial fraud. It's easier to prove and easier to convict.
Mueller was limited to collusion. He busted people like Manafort for lying about other stuff. But in the process, he uncovered financial crimes. That stuff needs to go to congress and district FBI offices.
As always, follow the money.
I'd rather they focus on more prescient crimes committed by Trump & his family, like the financial fraud. It's easier to prove and easier to convict.
Mueller was limited to collusion. He busted people like Manafort for lying about other stuff. But in the process, he uncovered financial crimes. That stuff needs to go to congress and district FBI offices.
As always, follow the money.
Meh.
We took the L. Everyone need to stop fucking screaming and crying about it and engaging in magical thinking. Its fucking done.
2020. We vote him out, Trump stops being President at a set time and date.
To everyone; if this shit bothers you, ignore it. You knew that Trump was going to be an insufferable asshole the moment the main conclusions where spread everywhere in the media. So, ignore it.
If you danced around for years swearing up and down that Trump was going down because of muller, Woops. Lesson learned there too.
They want to break your soul because they fucking hate you. Trump would complain about stepping over your corpse if you died right in front of him. Don't give them any more power over your own hope and motivation.
2020.
Holy shit, way to roll over and die.
Fucking pathetic.
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On March 25th 2020, this will all feel like a decade ago. It's not going to energize anybody one way or another in any kind of meaningful way. Maybe, maybe if we had a president that was capable of not shitting himself weekly. Thankfully, we don't.
I get it, this is fresh and it stings. But, it all moves so quickly. If this report came out in October 2020, I'd actually agree with you I think.
To top if off, the Republican play is apparently to still go after Hillary Clinton. If moderates are going to be pissed about Democrats going after Trump, they are going to be as equally annoyed that Republicans are still crying about Hillary Clinton.