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Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC
- Thread starter SaveWeyard
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So, this subject is like any other one involving politics. Americans who care about this issue support the causes and policies that align with their own.
Which isn't the same as specifically calling out money as the main factor in this discussion. Doing so was simplistic and, frankly a self-defeating move on Omar's part, and helps to reinforce traditionally anti-Semitic ideas, even if unintentionally.
Clipjoint's post is a disgusting conflation of "Be specific as to not invoke them" and "Can't avoid being anti-semitic so might as well not try amirite?"
He's doing exactly what the J Street press release third paragraph spoke out against from the opposite angle.
Late to the party, what's the mood here?
Seems like anyone who criticises Israel/lobbying firms are called anti-semitic, it's all the rage here in the UK. Really disappointed to see the witch hunt supported by Nancy on Ilhan, thank god we have Corbyn and a non-apolegitc left wing
Seems like anyone who criticises Israel/lobbying firms are called anti-semitic, it's all the rage here in the UK. Really disappointed to see the witch hunt supported by Nancy on Ilhan, thank god we have Corbyn and a non-apolegitc left wing
As often occurs, Chapo had the correct take on this issue - gird your loins and steel your stomach, because the bad faith accusations of anti-Semitism against the Left are only going to grow and prey more and more upon the well-intentioned sensibilities ingrained in us as liberals to hear complaints of prejudice and give them space.The only winning move is not to play, much as we cannot and do not take cries of censorship from fascists seriously, either.
It takes a lot of guts for an entire nation to publically denounce their own war crimes. They aren't ready for that rhetoric, or they disagree with the notion that shooting kids is a crime at all in the act of "self-defense".
You could read it like that, or you could just acknowledge that they're saying that it's a freaking minefield if you're not 100% on your shit. Even when you are right.
Sheldon Adelson has been called an anti-semite caricature by left leaning writers in Israel for years.
It fucking fits too.
I am reading it like that because Clipjoint is presenting it as a binary choice between "Say nothing" or "Get blown up for anti-semitism" as though "learn to navigate the minefield" isn't an option.
Is there anything else? Put some effort into this, your condemning the man's entire career I expect more proof that one shitty decision.
That's true, many support Maduro.
Chapo Trap House - right. They're all about the hot takes, but when it comes to reading the temperature about how politics runs in Washington they're behind the curveball. The winning move is to defeat AIPAC which they do shit about, I swear leftists are worse the liberals with AIPAC, at least we know when the tide is against us and adjust you guys either self implode to barely move anything or do absolutely nothing about AIPAC's influence aside from posting on twitter, a move which empowers AIPAC when it's done sloppily like with Omar.
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Case in point. I never said "can't avoid being anti-Semitic" and I took effort to point out the difference between the disgusting anti-Semitic canards and the actual, specific, instances where criticisms apply to bad actors who happen to be Jewish.
You can't, however, avoid being labelled as anti-Semitic by those acting in bad faith who want to shield Israel from any criticism by invoking anti-Semitism. That's specifically what J-Street is pointing out, and rightfully so.
The truth is, some of the most courageous and strong-willed allies in the fight for Palestinian rights have been Jews, specifically because they are less likely to be labelled as anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel (although it still happens in most cases). Without our Jewish allies, who prioritize their Jewish values over the right-wing Likudnik government of Israel, we would be much further behind in the fight for civil rights and equality.
This pretty much sums up where I'm at.
Like, I'm trying to imagine a scenario where someone seriously tried to pose to me that they wanted to discuss Black issues, but wouldn't because of fearing they'd sound racist...and how not-seriously I'd take them.
I think a lot of the defense in this thread is well-intentioned, but some of it honestly sounds like people are arguing that a congressperson shouldn't be expected to have basic communication skills.
Saying someone believes what they say is a condemnation of their career?
Considering how relatively mild what Omar said was, I think it's fairly obvious that blowing up the minefield is the only option. The Left is not at risk of violently attacking Jewish people for their Judaism, it's the Right that is literally cozying up to anti-Semites as long as they're on that good white nationalist mojo. There is no good faith in the criticisms, and the only way to defang them is to rob them of their power and singlemindedly pursue the political goal of forcing Israel to reform itself.
Absolutely agreed. Chomsky and Finkelstein come to mind, including great writers like Uri Avnery.
And the response to Omar's tweets was not driven by the bad-faithers! This is the ridiculous misconception. People on the left side of things were legitimately upset, and rather than acknowledge this, many are content to say "There's no problem!"
You are not going to erase multiple millenia's worth of built up stereotypes and negative associations and history within anyone's lifetime.
It's NOT an option, because even the most adept and careful advocates still get called anti-Semitic by bad-faith actors. Point me to one person who is a prominent critic of Israel who hasn't been called anti-Semitic. I'll wait.
Who gives a shit about the bad faith actors. Omar was getting criticized by the good faith ones. Hence, the apology.
They're either
1) bad-faithers
2) afraid of upsetting their donors
3) drank rightwing Israeli koolaid.
Why should we bother with them and their crocodile tears? Ton of Jewish people on Twitter completely side with Rep Omar and call out what they see as a smear tactic.
Ok, we get it. Bad faith actors are going to label any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic. I don't think anybody disputes this.
So two questions: Do you think everyone criticizing Ilhan Omar is a bad faith actor? And, if not, what do you say to those people? Do they matter?
This is surface level analysing for a career politician. There's more to politics than saying stuff, there are layers to the competent ones and Schumer knows how to play the long game. That's why he's one of the most powerful politicians in New York and the Senate.
True, but in those cases the left won't be forced to back them because they clumsily are putting up antisemitic language.
This in no way discredits jewish people who felt offended by what she said. "People on twitter don't think it was a problem" is not a defense.
I've seen a small, small fraction of the people attacking her who are historically vocal in their criticism for Israel and support for Palestinian rights. And I don't deny that she should have avoided such a glib response, although I don't think for a second that she is anti-Semitic or was intentionally trying to use an anti-Semitic trope. But the far vast majority of the pile-on was from right wingers, pro-Israel Democrats, and liberals who avoid discussing Israel in general.
There's the BDS movement. And the Dems' hands aren't really tied, they're just cowards.
Why do you need to coddle someone if they've misconstrued what you said? Such an impeccable standard when it comes to Israel.
I fucking hate how many liberals, including on this forum, pretend to give a shit about Palestine in one sentence, while spending every other sentence they spew on the subject defending Israel and tone policing critics.
Like, if almost every post you have on the subject in every thread it comes up starts along the lines of "I'm totally not supportive of Bibi or apartheid, BUT," and then spends paragraphs obfuscating the issue and engaging in bad faith tone policing and defenses of bad actors, I'm not sure you actually give a shit.
I don't fucking understand why people can't get it that Israel /= Jews. Saying lobbyists use money to peddle influence = common fucking sense. So, how people go from calling out a lobbying group for spending money to influence politics in favor of a certain regime to anti-Semitism is fucking bizarre to me. I feel like I'm being gaslighted. She's describing what lobbies do. In this case, that lobby represents a neo-facist, ethno-nationalist regime engaged in ethnic cleansing and apartheid.
It's not a fucking conspiracy, the lobby actually exists and spends money to peddle influence in favor of the neo fascist Israeli government. It's in broad fucking daylight and if acknowledging that is anti-Semitic then I don't even know what to say. You'd have to make so many leaps to go from what she said in the context of the discussion to the "shadowy Jewish cabal controlling the world!" conspiracy people are accusing her of pushing that I honestly do find it hard to believe her critics are acting in good faith.
Like, if almost every post you have on the subject in every thread it comes up starts along the lines of "I'm totally not supportive of Bibi or apartheid, BUT," and then spends paragraphs obfuscating the issue and engaging in bad faith tone policing and defenses of bad actors, I'm not sure you actually give a shit.
I don't fucking understand why people can't get it that Israel /= Jews. Saying lobbyists use money to peddle influence = common fucking sense. So, how people go from calling out a lobbying group for spending money to influence politics in favor of a certain regime to anti-Semitism is fucking bizarre to me. I feel like I'm being gaslighted. She's describing what lobbies do. In this case, that lobby represents a neo-facist, ethno-nationalist regime engaged in ethnic cleansing and apartheid.
It's not a fucking conspiracy, the lobby actually exists and spends money to peddle influence in favor of the neo fascist Israeli government. It's in broad fucking daylight and if acknowledging that is anti-Semitic then I don't even know what to say. You'd have to make so many leaps to go from what she said in the context of the discussion to the "shadowy Jewish cabal controlling the world!" conspiracy people are accusing her of pushing that I honestly do find it hard to believe her critics are acting in good faith.
Spot on post.
It's really not. There is an ideological divide in the Democratic Party on Israel and amongst the American left in general.
Chuck Schumer is not supporting the embassy move and voting for anti-BDS bills in the Senate out of some cowardice, he's doing it because it's what he believes in.
It's an ideological split.
This thread has been blatant about the Dems being corrupted by AIPAC's money, so there's more going on than simply because they're true believers. That's having their hands tied.
This is true, but this is ignoring the political status quo behind the scenes with this issue culturally and politically.
This isn't proof of anything substantial. How would you tell if he was doing that because he wanted to get money for his campaigns or that he was a true believer? How deep have you looked into his political or personal history? How deep are his financial ties to AIPAC? I despise Schumer but I'm going to need more evidence about this to agree with you here.
There is an ideology split publicly between the generations, I agree, but this ignores the political realities AIPAC represents for the Democratic party. It's a lot more than that going on.
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I answered the first question earlier. As for the second I say - yes what she said was clumsy, but this is a time where you need to stand with her as an ally because the bad faith actors want to use this as an opportunity to stifle the debate. Giving them a victory by piling on just sets the cause back even further.
No, but I see little evidence of ANY good faith in this particular onslaught of attacks against her, and the bipartisan voraciousness of the backlash says a LOT about the dynamics at play.
Sorry, there is no playing nice or good optics here, and the people who actually give a shit about justice as an overarching goal are not going to be offended because you say that Sheldon Adelson, Haim Saban, and AIPAC buy politicians' opinions on the question of Israel, because it's so blindingly and obviously TRUE. That truth bears a passing resemblance to a stereotype in this particular instance is unfortunate, but I'm not going to be bullied into silence by people desperate to prove that Corbyn and Omar are actually gearing up for pogroms.
Ok, so basically what you're saying is their feelings don't matter. The people on the left who spoke up about the offensive nature of Omar's tweeting. Or, rather, that their feelings do matter, but not more than the actions of the bad faith actors, so they just need to stomach their feelings on the issue and support Omar instead?
Am I misunderstanding you?
This mindset is how racism, sexism, homophobia, and all sorts of other shitty beliefs and abusive behavior are excused in the name of the "greater good". You can't adjust anything in response to external criticism because they must always be wrong and we must always be right.
Clearly her own fellow congressional freshman was simply lying when criticized her, lying when he accepted the apology, and lying when he attacked the double standard with McCarthy's shit not getting any play.
People criticizing AIPAC are walking on landmines and always needs to apologize while politicians like Harris can take a smiling picture alongside a fucking mass murderer and genocider like Netanyahu (what 'impression' does that give?) and everyone are singing praises and kumbayas for them.
So forgive me if I don't actually believe most people criticizing her are doing so not because of bad-faith intentions, because time and time again it has been shown that US politicians will ask for seconds for every poop and shit Israel produce from its arse.
I don't think it's controversial to say that, taken as a whole, the backlash against Omar was driven by bad faithers. That there was a small, and probably significant, amount of legitimate grievances against her retweet/language doesn't excuse the former. And if you were to take sides in this, as in other cases, people generally stand against the bad faithers. A common Republican/media tactic is dismissing minority voices or minority victims by painting them in a bad light, referring to things in their history, generally trying to discredit their character as justification for levying bad faith arguments against them. The proper response in this case is usually to say "so? what does this have to do with your bad faith arguments?". We're supposed to stand with our allies and not fall into purity tests, yes? However, in this case there's a small but vocal amount of people veering very closely to "she deserved the backlash for using the wrong words".
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How is this weakening the ties between the Dems or weakening AIPAC's grip behind the scenes in Washington? Looks like general protesting to me. It's a good first step, but this is nowhere near the clout the movement needs to shift the political winds to cut the financial strings on both parties.
She has been the target of GOP bad faith attacks for weeks.
This one drew a response from other Dems because there was actually something to it this time. The bad-faithers are a stopped clock. They weren't why this became a real problem, and got a real apology.
Frankly, I don't care about Republicans or the Right. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that there is nothing of substance that the right contributes to the conversation and the Left should just ignore them completely.
However, they don't have much to do with this. This situation with Ilhan Omar blew up for two reasons that I can see:
1) For once, she actually pissed off people on the Left.
2) She keeps stepping in it. There are some politicians who just aren't built for Twitter hot takes and Omar seems to be one of them. We've done this dance too many times for it to only be February.
"Bad faith" and "lying" are not synonymous. It can also be arguing for bullshit because you've not examined your bad priors and are basically forcing others to debunk you themselves.
Even if maybe 5-10% of the people wagging their fingers at her are something that could be called good-faith, I don't see any reason their views on this supersede the need to deal in the realm of reality on this and other issues. Like, sorry, but that's not a good reading of Omar's original statement, and you should feel bad for engaging in it. That she caved to political pressure doesn't make the attacks right, it means she doesn't want to be ostracized from having any efficacy in her role.
it's called voting in people like omar and ocasio-cortez who do not take donations from or capitulate to AIPAC? like what else is there to do about such entrenched influence
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