Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC

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Oct 25, 2017
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But it's only a subject that needs so much effort and nuance to navigate BECAUSE of the bad faith critics. It would have been completely uncontroversial if she had made the exact same comment about the gun lobby, energy, defense, tech, etc. But we have been trained by bad faith actors that any criticism of the pro-Israeli lobby requires a tap dancing act around any number of landmines, and oh by the way, even if you navigate them perfectly you'll still be labelled an anti-Semite because it's not the language they object to - it's the policy.

Mehdi Hasan does a great job here with a thread showing the exact same language, if not more pernicious, being used about Saudi influence, without claims of Islamophobia:

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1095006621485465601
This is absolutely wrong. Omar has been getting attacked by the GOP for a while now on this axis and no one cared on the Dem side until now, because until now, she hadn't done anything recently that was actually a problem.

This was actually a problem, which is why it has drawn the response it has by other members of her own party.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,235
This is absolutely wrong. Omar has been getting attacked by the GOP for a while now on this axis and no one cared on the Dem side until now, because until now, she hadn't done anything recently that was actually a problem.

This was actually a problem, which is why it has drawn the response it has by other members of her own party.
Why was it a problem now?
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,746
Why was it a problem now?
Because on top of the iffy original tweet, she RTed a guy complaining it was like say "hooked-nose Jews". For those who may not be twitter-literate, that is what you do on twitter if you're making fun of people arguing against you in your feed. Austan Goolsbee will make Fox News appearances on economic stuff, and he RTs many Trump trolls he gets afterwards. It may have been an accident due to not reading it, but holy hell it looked really bad, which is why she deleted it, and why the response from Max Rose was quickly put out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,326
I'm going to guess that it was because some actual, real-life, regular-degular people were offended by what her words unintentionally suggested, and not just alt-right trolls and bots.
I feel like you have to do some mental gymnastic here to find yourself actually offended.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
Because on top of the iffy original tweet, she RTed a guy complaining it was like say "hooked-nose Jews". For those who may not be twitter-literate, that is what you do on twitter if you're making fun of people arguing against you in your feed. Austan Goolsbee will make Fox News appearances on economic stuff, and he RTs many Trump trolls he gets afterwards. It may have been an accident due to not reading it, but holy hell it looked really bad, which is why she deleted it, and why the response from Max Rose was quickly put out.
Reading into why she RT a person is a heavy assumption
 
Apr 13, 2018
236
Amazing how everyone with an Israel flag on their twitter profile always throws out the "anti-Semitic" response when someone says something negative about that place.

Fuck Israel.
Zionists have ensured they are the gatekeepers of criticism of the apartheid zionist state. You may criticize israel but only in the way that zionists approve of.
 
Oct 27, 2017
631
She flat-out called the situation in Venezuela as "caused by the US" and referred to Guaido as a far-right politician. Sorry, but you're the one who is misinformed here.
Uninformed tweets that are wary against US intervention and simplifying a complex situation ≠ Supporting Maduro.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,746
Reading into why she RT a person is a heavy assumption
I'm saying that's the behavior she imitated, intentionally or not. The sloppy original tweet got the even sloppier RT. And when people on your own side of the aisle are pissed as a result, it's probably not because they're acting in bad faith.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,366
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Israel is made up of 70% Jews and 30% Muslims and Christians (more or less). Isn't it actually anti-semitic to associate Israel as if it's some sort of Jewish ethnostate?

She flat-out called the situation in Venezuela as "caused by the US" and referred to Guaido as a far-right politician. Sorry, but you're the one who is misinformed here.
Do you have a reference to the tweet in question?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
I'm saying that's the behavior she imitated, intentionally or not. The sloppy original tweet got the even sloppier RT. And when people on your own side of the aisle are pissed as a result, it's probably not because they're acting in bad faith.
How many people criticizing her support BDS?

Let’s be frank here, on this issue of Israeli/American relations, the standard of which side you are on really hinges on whether or not you support the BDS movement. Her democrat colleagues have basically told her to get in line, so on this particular issue are they really allies?
 

Chikor

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Oct 26, 2017
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I'm saying that's the behavior she imitated, intentionally or not. The sloppy original tweet got the even sloppier RT.
I don't think you can handwave "intentional or not" here.
Because you're either fighting racism or signal boosting bad faith actors based on the answer to that question. That's kinda important to know.

Also, isn't whether or not she an antisemite is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more important that whatever harm you think her tweet did to Jewish people?
That's the most important question here I think.
 

Tya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
530
When talking about AIPAC giving money to politicians to influence politics? Sure, that’s trickier. Israel in general? No, that’s nonsense. If you have trouble criticizing Israel without being accused of antisemitism, you should start questioning where you’ve been getting your talking points. That’s what I was responding to.
Such nonsense. You are part of the problem.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,746
I don't think you can handwave "intentional or not" here.
Because you're either fighting racism or signal boosting bad faith actors based on the answer to that question. That's kinda important to know.

Also, isn't whether or not she an antisemite is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more important that whatever harm you think her tweet did to Jewish people?
That's the most important question here I think.
From the perspective of Pelosi, even if it's unintentional, you need to address the sloppy behavior. It's like if someone has a history of iffy statements re: black people and then makes a fried chicken reference. Given that this is stemming from her impulsively tweeting stuff, fixing that is legitimately important.
How many people criticizing her support BDS?

Let’s be frank here, on this issue of Israeli/American relations, the standard of which side you are on really hinges on whether or not you support the BDS movement. Her democrat colleagues have basically told her to get in line, so on this particular issue are they really allies?
That you believe Jewish Dems can't be criticizing her in good faith without being BDS supporters is incredibly disgusting.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,208
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Israel is made up of 70% Jews and 30% Muslims and Christians (more or less). Isn't it actually anti-semitic to associate Israel as if it's some sort of Jewish ethnostate?
It defines itself as an ethnostate, both aspirationally and legally, but one that's nice enough to permit some non-Jews to live there (as long as they know their place).

Democrats: ethnic nationalism is good, actually.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,165
Jesus I'm so angry I need to walk away from the desk. These are moments when I agree with those that ultimately there's little difference in either party.

Fuck Nancy Pelosi. Fuck these politicians and fuck our education system.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
And let’s not forget that the very first bill that the Senate introduced this year was intended to restrict peope boycotting and divesting from Israel! That literally happened a month ago and now folks are up in arms Because someone said that money from Israel and Israeli groups are driving pro Israel/Anti Palestinian policy.
 

Chikor

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Oct 26, 2017
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From the perspective of Pelosi, even if it's unintentional, you need to address the sloppy behavior. It's like if someone has a history of iffy statements re: black people and then makes a fried chicken reference. Given that this is stemming from her impulsively tweeting stuff, fixing that is legitimately important.
Why does she have to do that?
What does any of that achieve other than furthering accepting the GOP framing that all criticism of Israel and AIPAC is illegitimate. I mean, we're not expecting that this statement gonna make them not attack the Dems on this issue, right?
How many years have we seen the Dems try to out GOP the GOP when it comes to Israel?
Even on a cynical electoral level this is not something that works.

p.s.
Stop beating around the bush, if you think she's racist say it and let's talk about it, if you don't, those insinuation are unbecoming.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,366
It defines itself as an ethnostate, both aspirationally and legally, but one that's nice enough to permit some non-Jews to live there (as long as they know their place).

Democrats: ethnic nationalism is good, actually.
Democrats are toothless, at least on this issue. But here's the thing, the younger you are, the more likely you don't support Israel:

The imbalance is even more pronounced when broken down by other demographic criteria: Only 25 percent of those 18-29-years-old said that Israel was an ally, compared to 55 percent of those over 65. Forty-three percent of whites viewed Israel as an ally, compared to only 19 percent of African Americans and 22 percent of Hispanics. Twenty-nine percent of households earning less that $50K a year viewed Israel favorably but 49 percent of those earning $100K and over did. Twenty-nine percent of those who voted for Clinton in 2016 saw Israel as an ally compared to 65 percent of Trump voters. And 27 percent of liberals say Israel favorable compared to 33 percent of moderates but a whopping 60 percent of conservatives.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-u-s-liberals-millennials-and-women-1.6594182

The issue I have is we have to wait for the dumb ass Baby Boomers to go away before any real strides are going to be made.

Yes I'm aware of that horrible law :/.
 

Royalan

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Oct 24, 2017
1,722
Such nonsense. You are part of the problem.
How? I'm being genuine here when I ask why this is such an unreasonable expectation of someone sitting in Congress.

I mean, just look at this thread! Multiple people representing various sides of this "controversy." Paragraphs upon paragraphs of thoughtful contribution to the topic, and so far I've had to do very little moderating because, wow, nobody's really tripping over anti-Semitic rhetoric and inferences! It's possible!
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
How? I'm being genuine here when I ask why this is such an unreasonable expectation of someone sitting in Congress.

I mean, just look at this thread! Multiple people representing various sides of this "controversy." Paragraphs upon paragraphs of thoughtful contribution to the topic, and so far I've had to do very little moderating because, wow, nobody's really tripping over anti-Semitic rhetoric and inferences! It's possible!
Is Julian your alt?
 

Jexhius

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Oct 25, 2017
475
Nancy Pelosi's response to this incident only serves to highlight why this criticism of such lobbying efforts are required in the first place. She's proving her point.

Turning any criticism of an Israel lobbying group, or the Israel government, or Zionism into "anti-semitisim" is part of a decades long gaslighting campaign that everyone, including the Democrats, have taken part in. It's now a card played to shutdown any conversation about the issue whatsoever.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
From the perspective of Pelosi, even if it's unintentional, you need to address the sloppy behavior. It's like if someone has a history of iffy statements re: black people and then makes a fried chicken reference. Given that this is stemming from her impulsively tweeting stuff, fixing that is legitimately important.

That you believe Jewish Dems can't be criticizing her in good faith without being BDS supporters is incredibly disgusting.
And see, this is exactly what I’m talking about. Eventually all these arguments roll back to conflating Israel and Judaism. That somehow saying Israel throws money around American politicians is somehow an affront to Jewish people, somewhere.
 
Oct 27, 2017
121
Nancy Pelosi's response to this incident only serves to highlight why this criticism of such lobbying efforts are required in the first place. She's proving her point.
Yup...especially when this exact Dem leadership worked so hard to shield Steve King, an actual lifelong white supremacist, from censure last week.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,235
Because on top of the iffy original tweet, she RTed a guy complaining it was like say "hooked-nose Jews". For those who may not be twitter-literate, that is what you do on twitter if you're making fun of people arguing against you in your feed. Austan Goolsbee will make Fox News appearances on economic stuff, and he RTs many Trump trolls he gets afterwards. It may have been an accident due to not reading it, but holy hell it looked really bad, which is why she deleted it, and why the response from Max Rose was quickly put out.
That looks bad, but I feel like it’s really about criticizing what AIPAC actually does. Criticizing this lobbyist group is off-limits and it is bi-partisan. This is what receives a harsh response and essentially toss party unity out of the door. It’s cowardly and it’s even worse because the thing she said was factually right. The transparency of money in politics is a good thing.
 

Chikor

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Oct 26, 2017
2,223
How? I'm being genuine here when I ask why this is such an unreasonable expectation of someone sitting in Congress.

I mean, just look at this thread! Multiple people representing various sides of this "controversy." Paragraphs upon paragraphs of thoughtful contribution to the topic, and so far I've had to do very little moderating because, wow, nobody's really tripping over anti-Semitic rhetoric and inferences! It's possible!
I think it's not unreasonable to expect members of congress to step super carefully around Israel and AIPAC issues because, well, because of this shit.
But I don't think it's a good thing, I mean, people should try to weight their words in general, but Israel being this third rail of sorts only serves Israel and its shitty policies, not even Jewish people.
I would personally really want to see it changed, and I think the first steps toward that is not to be really careful about not conflating criticism of Israel with racism.

I don't think we're being really careful here, maybe you are personally, but the reactions to her comment and Pelosi's respond aren't if you ask me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,746
Why does she have to do that?
What does any of that achieve other than furthering accepting the GOP framing that all criticism of Israel and AIPAC is illegitimate. I mean, we're not expecting that this statement gonna make them not attack the Dems on this issue, right?
How many years have we seen the Dems try to out GOP the GOP when it comes to Israel?
Even on a cynical electoral level this is not something that works.

p.s.
Stop beating around the bush, if you think she's racist say it and let's talk about it, if you don't, those insinuation are unbecoming.
Having a politician on your own side tweeting out iffy stuff that wastes everyone's time is legitimately bad in its own right, whether she's anti-semitic or not. I'm not making a judgment on that.
That looks bad, but I feel like it’s really about criticizing what AIPAC actually does. Criticizing this lobbyist group is off-limits and it is bi-partisan. This is what receives a harsh response and essentially toss party unity out of the door. It’s cowardly and it’s even worse because the thing she said was factually right. The transparency of money in politics is a good thing.
That may have been her intent. That's explicitly not what the RT was about, and it's why she got a response from her own side of the aisle.
 

Chikor

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Oct 26, 2017
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Having a politician on your own side tweeting out iffy stuff that wastes everyone's time is legitimately bad in its own right, whether she's anti-semitic or not. I'm not making a judgment on that.
Do you have no opinion or do you just don't want to share it?
Because I'm really struggle to understand why do you care more about a fucking tweet than about whether or not a member of the house is an antisemite.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
Do you have no opinion or do you just don't want to share it?
Because I'm really struggle to understand why do you care more about a fucking tweet than about whether or not a member of the house is an antisemite.
It’s just “realpolitik” or something or the other.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,132
They addressed the Retweet and didn't even bother to comment on the actual substance of the message. No mention of AIPAC's influence at all which all just proves the point that Democrats like Pelosi are in general Anti-BDS and Pro-Apartheid.
Pelosi has spoken at AIPAC before so it’s no surprise should would put out a statement like that. But it still gets me that they have the nerve to say that they should denounce hatred and racism yet still support a genocidal, apartheid state. Like my mind is exploding by the shear gall of that statement.
 

Jexhius

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Oct 25, 2017
475
What's really crazy about this is that it's not even like her tweet is really getting to the meat of the (substantial) criticism that should be levied against the Israel lobby and the government of Israel. We can't even begin to talk about the situation in Gaza, the killing of non-combatants etc because even approaching any part of this topic results with you being called out and ostracized.

Being stuck in this situation means that nothing can even begin to improve. We can't even imagine a world where a conversation like that could take place, let alone any action to improve the fate of Palestinians.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,746
Do you have no opinion or do you just don't want to share it?
Because I'm really struggle to understand why do you care more about a fucking tweet than about whether or not a member of the house is an antisemite.
Legit no opinion, I'm not making a judgment on that. A 10 page thread here, responses from Dem leadership and other members- this is all shit no one has to deal with due to someone being sloppy on twitter. If she's not anti-semitic, cleaning up the sloppiness should avoid further incidents.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,112
Man if only other groups of people had the power to have congress act a damn fool like this.....

I will never vote for anyone that takes money from that group. This is ugly and I feel better not being a part of it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
Pelosi has spoken at AIPAC before so it’s no surprise should would put out a statement like that. But it still gets me that they have the nerve to say that they should denounce hatred and racism yet still support a genocidal, apartheid state. Like my mind is exploding by the shear gall of that statement.
Aye, the tone policing is horrible. You'd expect Pelosi to mediate than throwing Omar under the bus.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,706
Is Julian your alt?
Lol. I was confused too.

I've replied to you, and it isn't about Omar's tweets in context.

Historically, any criticism against Israel has been deemed anti-semitic. This was why I said it isn't easy.
Is Tya your alt?

But more seriously, I don’t care if some website says any criticism of Israel is antisemitic. That wasn’t really a response to what I said. I have no issue defending somebody who shits on Bibi or a whole slew of actions and policies taken by Israel. In this case she brought up money and retweeted somebody saying she was incoming Jewish stereotypes. The amount of posters ignoring the latter part just cause they agree with her original point is astounding. She brought this on herself.
 
Oct 27, 2017
121
AOC just had a video go viral talking about the negative impact of money in politics. But all of a sudden the House Dems are clutching their pearls at the thought of AIPAC money having an influence on policy towards Israel? The same AIPAC where Donald Trump got a standing ovation? Cool cool.
 
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