Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC

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Oct 25, 2017
2,383
Bad faith complaints from the GOP are not "incidents". This is an incident. The goal is to prevent more.
Can literally be done in private and not made into the theater it is now. The dog piling isn't needed and the incessant hand wringing from pundits is over the top
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,037
Lol. I was confused too.



Is Tya your alt?

But more seriously, I don’t care if some website says any criticism of Israel is antisemitic. That wasn’t really a response to what I said. I have no issue defending somebody who shits on Bibi or a whole slew of actions and policies taken by Israel. In this case she brought up money and retweeted somebody saying she was incoming Jewish stereotypes. The amount of posters ignoring the latter part just cause they agree with her original point is astounding. She brought this on herself.
Yeah, I agree with you that what she tweeted was foolish. It wasn't the first time either, not to mention her tweets about Venezuela.

Still, I'm frustrated over how your dems has handled the situation. They themselves could have done better.
 
Nov 5, 2017
1,159
There would still be incidents even if she has the most perfect language.
If this was true. Tlaib would also be getting thrown under the bus.

She's not, because she's less sloppy.


I really, really want AIPAC to lose influence. Almost as much as I wanted the NRA, because imo, this lobby is killing people. Straight up.

But to beat them, you need a great voice for it. Even the Parkland kids couldn't do it to the NRA. And they get way more play than Omar.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,829
Fiddler's Green
She told no lies, but literally nothing she says about Israel is ever going to be okay with a bunch of people because she's Muslim. Even non-Muslims have to step lightly around discussing Israel in U.S. politics, because she told no lies.
 

Chikor

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Oct 26, 2017
2,223
It’s just “realpolitik” or something or the other.
If it was good realpolitik you can somehow justify that shit, but this crap only help people who want to say that all critics of Israel are racists, which is a position that the GOP is always gonna win on.
Legit no opinion, I'm not making a judgment on that. A 10 page thread here, responses from Dem leadership and other members- this is all shit no one has to deal with due to someone being sloppy on twitter. If she's not anti-semitic, cleaning up the sloppiness should avoid further incidents.
I personally think that not branding legitimate criticism of Israel is more important than being sloppy on twitter.
Also, I remember a whole lot of Democrats being very sloppy on twitter, and I don't remember Pelosi admonish them like that. I think ignoring how Israel and AIPAC is being treated in American policy is something that you can do when talking about this issue, because at the end of the day, that what really matter here and that's what's really at stake.
For all the pearl-clutching, Ilhan Omar isn't moving the needle on antisemitism.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,245
Let's be honest, the problem House Dems had was with the original statement and the uncomfortable position it put them in. It's what the GOP responded to and it is what other Dems responded to. This is about attacking all criticism of Israel. Before it was about trying to make constitutionally protected boycotts illegal. Anyone who criticizes Israel or Israel's Lobbying PAC is going to get smeared by both sides using whatever bad faith ammunition is needed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,237
Aye, the tone policing is horrible. You'd expect Pelosi to mediate than throwing Omar under the bus.
It's a safe Dem seat. Pelosi doesn't care if Omar is politically damaged bercause the Dems will keep the seat. In fact she'd probably rather have someone more conservative in the seat.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,245
AOC just had a video go viral talking about the negative impact of money in politics. But all of a sudden the House Dems are clutching their pearls at the thought of AIPAC money having an influence on policy towards Israel? The same AIPAC where Donald Trump got a standing ovation? Cool cool.
NRA is cool too, because they have no influence on elections or legislation. Let's stop pretending that lobbying firms and Non-Profits don't have a major impact on our government and individual pieces of legislation.
 

GSG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,396
I don't like this conflation of Israel/Israel lobby criticism with anti-semitsm by people on both sides of the aisle. First of all, it's a disservice to victims of actual anti-semitism, especially those victims that lost their lives due to pure hatred. Second, it makes Israel essentially infallible and gives them the right to act with impunity.

If you're asking me, I would prefer it if Ilhan Omar did not make those tweets in the manner that she did, but the elephant in the room(AIPAC's lobbying) did need to be pointed out at some point.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,037
It's a safe Dem seat. Pelosi doesn't care if Omar is politically damaged bercause the Dems will keep the seat. In fact she'd probably rather have someone more conservative in the seat.
Fucking terrible that.

You'd expect the speaker of the house to be the mediator and the voice of reason when your president aint shit.

Instead she piles on Omar while ignoring the controversy regarding AIPAC.
 
Apr 13, 2018
239
That's not what I mean though. Dog piling her and making theater of isn't about any sort of corrective behavior.
What it is is a perfect deterrent for other members of the party though. Use her as just another example of what happens when you choose to criticize legalised bribery/corruption or israel (or both in this instance).

No matter who americans vote for the "bad guys" always win
 

Royalan

Buy Bionic. Please.
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Oct 24, 2017
1,734
Come on, I don't have to humor you because you know exactly what I mean.

I'm not Jewish, but as a Black Gay I've had way too many conversations where I've had to explain that "I think it's a reach to be offended here" is not actually a good excuse or defense, or that finding someone who isn't offended doesn't now mean that nobody can be offended, or that all exclamations of offense are not coming from a place of bad faith, etc.

A quick look shows me that some real, genuine people are offended by Omar in this instance. And some are actually putting in the effort to explain why they are. That should be enough.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,316
If this was true. Tlaib would also be getting thrown under the bus.

She's not, because she's less sloppy.


I really, really want AIPAC to lose influence. Almost as much as I wanted the NRA, because imo, this lobby is killing people. Straight up.

But to beat them, you need a great voice for it. Even the Parkland kids couldn't do it to the NRA. And they get way more play than Omar.
Well, then. Let's see some advocacy for major Dem figures to not go to AIPAC again, let's see them argue they don't support what they stand for because AIPAC does not stand for what's best for Israel. I'm sure they'll be very eloquent and considerate and quite milquetoast.

But it won't matter, I can't wait to see the accusations of antisemitism even then.
 
Oct 30, 2017
515
In response to Greewald's post, Omar tweeted, "It's all about the Benjamins baby," followed by a music emoji, which suggested that money was calling the tune for McCarthy.
*facepalm*

Please hire more black journalists that know the emoji was in reference to the song.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,049
That's not what I mean though. Dog piling her and making theater of it isn't about any sort of corrective behavior.
So, is it dogpiling when people reply in mass amounts to Northam's newest sloppy racial fuckup? Royalan says it better than I can but the double standard was blatant.
 

Murderopolis

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Jan 12, 2019
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There's a history of African American politicians being silenced for their support for Palestine, and criticism of Israel. This is completely in line with that and not one bit surprising. Omar is being brave, and she knew what would happen for being brave.

This really just highlights the ugly Islamophobia that just seems to be ingrained in American society and politics.
 

AAK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,576
AOC just had a video go viral talking about the negative impact of money in politics. But all of a sudden the House Dems are clutching their pearls at the thought of AIPAC money having an influence on policy towards Israel? The same AIPAC where Donald Trump got a standing ovation? Cool cool.
For reference to anyone:


Everybody nods in agreement, but the second you namedrop Israel lobbyist groups engaging in everything AOC described, enter the smear campaign.
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,516
Dem leadership showed their true colors today. It was possible to call out poor wording on Omar's part without positioning the Democratic Party line as unequivocally pro-Israel and pro-AIPAC. They did the exact opposite. They also highlight their hypocrisy by claiming they are anti-hatred, yet share values and strategic interests with a literal and self-defined ethnostate that is killing children and journalists, and all but committing genocide.

Pelosi and thus the Democratic Party has sided with the Right and with hate today. Never forget that. Let's make sure the Democratic Party does better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,465
New Jersey
I've never seen so much fake outrage in response to a clear critique of a foreign nation in my life. This is like Saudi arabia was a few years ago where you had almost zero talk about it despite it being clear dictatorial anti human rights crusader of the world, while on the human rights council

I hope this is one issue where there can be no confusion between well meaning centrists and progressive viewpoints. We need to defend people who make reasonable points in regards to fake narratives and character assassination when it comes to criticism of the US's convenient propaganda regarding allies and lobbyists in the government that the establishment considers untouchable
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,383
Come on, I don't have to humor you because you know exactly what I mean.

I'm not Jewish, but as a Black Gay I've had way too many conversations where I've had to explain that "I think it's a reach to be offended here" is not actually a good excuse or defense, or that finding someone who isn't offended doesn't now mean that nobody can be offended, or that all exclamations of offense are not coming from a place of bad faith, etc.

A quick look shows me that some real, genuine people are offended by Omar in this instance. And some are actually putting in the effort to explain why they are. That should be enough.
Not Jewish either but I'm a Black queer Muslim so believe me when I say I know what you're talking about however i don't find this to be comparable. Conflating Jewish people to a Pro-Netanyahu's regime lobby is messy but also the only way her comments can be misconstrued as anti-semetic. She certainly was flippant and that's definitely not the best approach to talking about this issue (although that's what the platform of twitter incentives so go figure) but it's a reach for me to presume those comments were anti-semitic especially understanding context and taking her very obvious intentions into account. Someone should pull her to the side and talk to her about her social media game so mistakes like this won't happen but everyone is dogpiling her and making theater of it all the while sidestepping the actual issue brought up in the first place that is pro-Netanyahu Regime lobbyists are putting in work at Washington in an effort to obscure Isreals crimes in Palestine. Straight up
 
Oct 27, 2017
145
Come on, I don't have to humor you because you know exactly what I mean.

I'm not Jewish, but as a Black Gay I've had way too many conversations where I've had to explain that "I think it's a reach to be offended here" is not actually a good excuse or defense, or that finding someone who isn't offended doesn't now mean that nobody can be offended, or that all exclamations of offense are not coming from a place of bad faith, etc.

A quick look shows me that some real, genuine people are offended by Omar in this instance. And some are actually putting in the effort to explain why they are. That should be enough.
As a Black Gay, one would hope you would be extra sensitive to the attempts to police minuscule deviations of discourse as "unacceptable" to deflect from the oppression of an entire people who are told that their lives and civil rights are not as important as the feelings of those who are in power. And one would hope you would be more attuned to the use of these tactics to stifle debate as the real transgression that needs to be addressed, rather than the perceived slight perpetuated by those acting in bad faith.

Yes, anti-Semitism exists. No, Ilhan Omar is not an anti-Semite. She is bravely taking on the entrenched, continued bipartisan support for Israel at the expense of Palestinians for three generations. It's not our job to pile on with the attacks that assume the worst of her, when this is the time where she needs the most support to hold strong.
 

Chikor

Banned
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Oct 26, 2017
2,223
Come on, I don't have to humor you because you know exactly what I mean.

I'm not Jewish, but as a Black Gay I've had way too many conversations where I've had to explain that "I think it's a reach to be offended here" is not actually a good excuse or defense, or that finding someone who isn't offended doesn't now mean that nobody can be offended, or that all exclamations of offense are not coming from a place of bad faith, etc.

A quick look shows me that some real, genuine people are offended by Omar in this instance. And some are actually putting in the effort to explain why they are. That should be enough.
As a Jew, I'm generally kinda uncomfortable with trying to draw parallels between the Jewish experience in the US and that of groups like African Americans. I mean, Jews are not only white in every way that matters, but we also have the highest favorability ratings of any ethnic or religious group. It wasn't always the case, and it took the holocaust to get us here, but we are here now. And it matters, like, a lot.

And in this issue specific, I think it's really important to acknowledge how many of the people who accuse critics of Israel of antisemitism are doing so in bad faith. I mean, it's the vast majority of it. I don't think that's a concern when black people are talking about racism.

p.s.
I want to break down being offended here, do you think this people who think she's a racist or people who don't think that but are still offended for some other reason?
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,741
Yeah, I agree with you that what she tweeted was foolish. It wasn't the first time either, not to mention her tweets about Venezuela.

Still, I'm frustrated over how your dems has handled the situation. They themselves could have done better.
Oh my posts were pre that democratic response. That’s obviously frustrating and deserves its own condemnation. Condemnation for everybody!
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,248
So, is it dogpiling when people reply in mass amounts to Northam's newest sloppy racial fuckup? Royalan says it better than I can but the double standard was blatant.
You talking about the thing where he explicitly called slavery "indentured servitude"?

That was a willful distortion of history and downplaying of the violence and brutality of slavery.

Omar tweeted a rather plain reference to money in politics (an open fact) and tripped on a rule about criticizing Israel that shouldn't be a rule in the first place.

I don't know where these two intersect.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,383
So, is it dogpiling when people reply in mass amounts to Northam's newest sloppy racial fuckup? Royalan says it better than I can but the double standard was blatant.
Not the same thing for me. In any case were having this discussion because you said that her actions needed to be corrected and I agree with that. I just don't think this is what that would look like nor do I concede her comments purposefully or mistakenly borrows from anti-semetic tropes
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,049
You talking about the thing where he explicitly called slavery "indentured servitude"?

That was a willful distortion of history and downplaying of the violence and brutality of slavery.

Omar tweeted a rather plain reference to money in politics (an open fact) and tripped on a rule about criticizing Israel that shouldn't be a rule in the first place.

I don't know where these two intersect.
This is where they interesect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism

And the RT was the biggest issue. It was explicitly about anti-semitism.
 
Congresswoman Omar's Response
Oct 25, 2017
5,354

Good response. Wish dem leadership waited and put out a more coordinated response to go along with this that wasn't so antagonistic toward rep Omar.
 

DavidDesu

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Oct 29, 2017
1,839
Glasgow, Scotland
Because there are anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that Jews control the world, and they do so in large part by using oodles and oodles of money to control people. That may not be what she means, but it's why it's so important to be particular with one's word choice and not beat around the bush, so that these misunderstandings don't happen in the first place. That is to say, how you say something can be just as important as what you're saying. And when there's absolutely no reason to be vague and you have the characters to avoid these misunderstandings and be more clear, then, well, what exactly is the benefit of being vague in the first place?

I wouldn't accept that kind of sloppy wording from a Republican, I'm not suddenly going to lower my standards because she's a Democrat and in her case likely does mean well. There's just absolutely zero reason to be vague here, and tweet out stuff that either could be read as anti-Semitic conspiracy theory garbage or as valid criticism of real issues, when she could just be more clear in the first place and avoid that. There's just no reason or excuse to be tweeting stuff like that out, regardless of intent, as it does no one any good, doesn't help anything, and be so easily avoided and it's just all so unnecessary. And that's because regardless of intent, regardless of whether she means for it to be read those way, those kind of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories do real damage to the lives of Jewish individuals each and every day.

Like, she might not intend to do damage, and I'm ready to believe that. But that doesn't change that damage is done all the same all the time by comments just like that, regardless of whether it's intended that way or not, and that's why it's so important to do better and have higher standards and not be so careless with one's words. Like, I wouldn't accept it if a Republican had said this, because of the damage those kinds of words and statements mean regardless of intent, and I'm not going to lower my standards just because she's a Democrat instead. If anything, I expect more from her as I expect Democrats to be better than that and not make those kind of mistakes to begin with.

If people still don't get it, another way to put it is, hmm, maybe to compare it to Elizabeth Warren, and the conspiracy around her Native American heritage, or lack there of? It seems very likely that Warren didn't actually intend any offense to Native Americans and was just ignorant and sloppy in how the handled that mess. Nonetheless, regardless of whether she meant it or not, how she handled that stuff is the kind of thing that does damage to many Native American tribes even today and was just a series of unforced errors and very, very poorly handled, and as a Democrat myself, I expected better from her on that.

Same deal here. If people can get how Warren messed up with the DNA test stuff and all that, it's a very similar issue with Omar and these particular tweets. That no actual offense needs to be intended, and the damage is the same regardless of whether it was intended or not, because how you say something is just as important as what you're saying. So yeah, if people can get the deal with how Warren messed up even if they don't think she actually meant anything wrong at any point, but still messed up regardless of intent, it's a very similar with Omar here, if that makes any sense and helps you to understand the issues at play here.
Jesus Christ the Israeli propagandists have really done a number here. It is anti Semitic to even suggest that pro Israeli groups use money to buy influence so when pro Israeli groups use money to buy influence for real you just better not talk about it because boy, you're just anti Semitic. Fuck this BS. Come on.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,951
Wow. Pelosi should be ashamed of that statement. But luckily others will also be critical of Israel's influence on American politics and money in general, so she won't be alone soon. I stand with you congresswoman Omar.
 
Oct 28, 2017
422
USA
Instead she piles on Omar while ignoring the controversy regarding AIPAC.
Pelosi will never criticize AIPAC. Because Omar is right that they have enormous influence in politics. Literally none of them will dare cross them -- it's just full-throated support for everything Israel and AIPAC.

It's so transparent. Every single criticism will be branded anti-semitic. People are going to sit here and literally tone police her when she just spoke the truth. Lobby = money. It's not anti-semitic to say one of the most influential lobbies in D.C. has money and uses it to exert influence on politicians.

This is some serious 1984 word manipulation crap.
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,290
She had nothing to apologize for. The disappointing defenders of Israel lobbying from Dem leaders in the other hand...
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,237
Looks like she learned her lesson not to criticize Israel or AIPAC again. Good job Dems!

Wow. Pelosi should be ashamed of that statement. But luckily others will also be critical of Israel's influence on American politics and money in general, so she won't be alone soon. I stand with you congresswoman Omar.
No she won't. She has been successfully made an example of.
 
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