• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.
  • Community Spotlight sign-ups are open once again for both Gaming and EtcetEra Hangout threads! If you want to shine a spotlight on your community, please register now.

Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've read your arguments with Laughing Banana

Probably one of the reasons why I'm very frustrated with this argument about Omar. There seems to be more concern on the language people use than the topic itself. His post touched on an antisemitic trope, but we know that it was unintended.
I honestly didn't see how saying AIPAC has a huge influence in creating an unconditional support for Israel among people of power in the US government is an anti Semitic trope, but since him and you are saying it I guess I must have missed something.

It's not intentional, in any event, if it's true.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
Hold up, let me sure I've got you straight. So, because some countries in the Arab League are bad, which is a problematic jumping off point, supporting a boycott movement that some people in some of the Arab League countries also support must be avoided because of the "impression" that this boycott movement is a "spiritual successor" to resistance movements against the two-state solution from last century, which of course has been a political and humanitarian disaster ever since it happened.

Lose me with every single world of this.
No, the problem is not that "the countries are bad", the problem is that you want to put pressure on them ro reform the country without invoking the forces that tried to prevent the country from ever existing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,213
Yes. We are. And probably Omar was. And the Benjamin she was referring to was a white Christian man. But congress is using it as if it were an intentional slur about Jewish names instead of answering questions about the outsize influence of AIPAC under Netanyahu's disgraceful race baiting invasion and illegal occupation and theft of land - and that's going to be their lean back position for the rest of the cycle.
Is Congress really making that connection to Bibi? Your post is literally the first time I've seen that connection. All I've heard is basically "don't talk about Israel and money because you can't do that because that's bad."
 
Oct 27, 2017
894
I am absolutely livid over the media and Congressional leadership response to her criticism of AIPAC. Even something as mild as that tweet saying a lobbyist group is paying for support is antisemitic? How the fuck did AIPAC surpass the NRA?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,462
You know that Netanyahu is the prime minister of Israel not of The Jews, right?

I’m also assuming this is what the hell you are on about
The original version of the song contained a line by Jadakiss “We see through, that's why nobody never gon' believe you/You should do what we do, stack chips like Hebrews.” The word Hebrews was blipped out and removed outright in the later remix. I assume that is what Stinkles is referring to.

Edit: Nvm. See his response.
 
No, the problem is not that "the countries are bad", the problem is that you want to put pressure on them ro reform the country without invoking the forces that tried to prevent the country from ever existing.
The two state solution *shouldn't* have happened. It's been a humanitarian disaster ever since. The Palestinian people have lost everything and Israel doesn't respect even the basic tenants of the original borders. They were correct to boycott it then, just speaking purely on the grounds of self-defense. Are you actually going to bat for the concept of enthostates now? Try to imagine ANYTHING ABOUT the idea of dividing people by ethnicity going over in America for one hot second and see if you can grok why people might not have love the idea.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,213
The original version of the song contained a line by Jadakiss “We see through, that's why nobody never gon' believe you/You should do what we do, stack chips like Hebrews.” The word Hebrews was blipped out and removed outright in the later remix. I assume that is what Stinkles is referring to.
Ah so this gets even deeper.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,192
I honestly didn't see how saying AIPAC has a huge influence in creating an unconditional support for Israel among people of power in the US government is an anti Semitic trope, but since him and you are saying it I guess I must have missed something.

It's not intentional, in any event, if it's true.
I was defending you lmao.

You definitely touched on an anti-semitic trope, but I know it was unintentional. What annoyed me was making that into a bigger deal than it is. The Israel government and lobbyists has managed to make tone policing more important than addressing the criticism thrown at them throughout the years, and this is the intended effect.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
The two state solution *shouldn't* have happened. It's been a humanitarian disaster ever since. The Palestinian people have lost everything and Israel doesn't respect even the basic tenants of the original borders. They were correct to boycott it then, just speaking purely on the grounds of self-defense. Are you actually going to bat for the concept of enthostates now?
A one-state apartheid state won't be much better than the current apartheid state. The problem is that neither side trusts each other enough to govern along the other in a shared government.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,192
Where does this treachery stop? Galilee olives?
Waze

(I did ponder if boycotting Waze is standing in line with the BDS principals, but then realised that I used Google Maps anyway. Then realised that Google Maps uses waze tech and thought that this was getting too ridiculous and I was thinking too much over the issue)
 
A one-state apartheid state won't be much better than the current apartheid state. The problem is that neither side trusts each other enough to govern along the other in a shared government.
Yeah, I can't imagine why allowing people to move freely about a country would improve their lives. Might as well leave them landlocked by military blockades I guess.

Jesus christ, dude.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
11,644
Is Congress really making that connection to Bibi? Your post is literally the first time I've seen that connection. All I've heard is basically "don't talk about Israel and money because you can't do that because that's bad."
Look at the NYT story and headline.

I'm watching it now on cable news at the gym with subtitles. And they're dancing around "it" as insensitivity. But Omar's own apology dances around that too - and what's shocking to me is that she didn't even clarify or rephrase her original tweet. It's basically so nuclear - to your point that nobody's even clarifying what it is she did. But watch the way the Chirons are paraphrasing and blowing up the tweet. Not her criticism. That phrasing. Also I'm kind of taken aback that she's so utterly backed down from a nothing burger - to the point where it's scary to think how much pressure came down and from whom. We have a possible rapist and two admitted blackface racists maintaining their posts in Virginia. Plenty of pressure but zero movement.

ok then. then what is the “benjamin pun”, why is it bad, and how is she stifling criticism of aipac with her behaviour?
She already apologized because of intense pressure and now she's one huge step back from a strong and correctposition . watch the parade of graven self righteous old white men on tv sternly rebuking her and saying she should apologize. And now the subject is her and not AIPAC. And while anti semitism is quite real in this country it's also a political shield for supporting shitty behavior by the Israeli government and both parties are all too ready to muddy those waters as this thread really clearly shows.

She's not stifling anything. They are. And that seems to be their out.

Yet again. And they're using her youth and gender and faith as silent crowbars.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,514
Also I'm kind of taken aback that she's so utterly backed down from a nothing burger - to the point where it's scary to think how much pressure came down and from whom. We have a possible rapist and two admitted blackface racists maintaining their posts in Virginia. Plenty of pressure but zero movement.
It's pretty fucked up huh?
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,615
A one-state apartheid state won't be much better than the current apartheid state. The problem is that neither side trusts each other enough to govern along the other in a shared government.
One state solution implies giving citizenship and full rights Palestinians, how would that be an apartheid state or not much better than the current state?
And I don't think the problem is trust.
Nobody trusted no one in South Africa, and what made that shit end is that international pressure made de Klerk decide that South Africa cannot keep Apartheid anymore, not that he woke up one day and decided that you know what, I can actually really trust those ANC people.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
Yikes. You can't be serious.
A situation in which the Palestinians will be permanently outnumbered in a government alongside the Israelis does not sound better than a situation in which both groups have their own territory and independent states to me, no, because of the enormous tensions between the two groups leading me to not believe that a singular government would be able to protect the interests of the minority. (The US South makes me very, very pessimistic on this.)
One state solution implies giving citizenship and full rights Palestinians, how would that be an apartheid state or not much better than the current state?
And I don't think the problem is trust.
Nobody trusted no one in South Africa, and what made that shit end is that international pressure made de Klerk decide that South Africa cannot keep Apartheid anymore, not that he woke up one day and decided that you know what, I can actually really trust those ANC people.
Black people overwhelmingly outnumbered white people in S.A. That isn't the case in Israel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,514
It was IMMEDIATE and complete. No ifs ands or buts. Just boom I was wrong.
At least racists know they have Republicans on their side so they never have to back down.

When what you thought was your own side comes after you too and you realise that on this one they don't see you as a democrat I imagine that the sober reality can be quite terrifying.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,615

That line of reasoning is insane and should be ridiculed relentlessly.
Wait, hold up, is the argument here that "it's all about the Benjamins" is racist regardless of context?
I mean, I don't want to shadowbox Chelsea Clinton here, but like, no one here thinks that, right?
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,908
A situation in which the Palestinians will be permanently outnumbered in a government alongside the Israelis does not sound better than a situation in which both groups have their own territory and independent states to me, no, because of the enormous tensions between the two groups leading me to not believe that a singular government would be able to protect the interests of the minority.

Black people overwhelmingly outnumbered white people in S.A. That isn't the case in Israel.
Your silly zero sum games amount to nothing. Some representation is better than no representation.

And no, having West Bank and Gaza become one state will give Palestinians a slight majority if you combine the existing Israeli Arabs. This is why Israel wants neither one state or two state. If they were smart, they would go for two state and take the bitter pill now rather than wait and eventually be forced to take one state and lose majority.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,192
Wait, hold up, is the argument here that "it's all about the Benjamins" is racist regardless of context?
I mean, I don't want to shadowbox Chelsea Clinton here, but like, no one here thinks that, right?
I hope not. Also Chelsea Clinton's tweets over the Ilhan Omar matter has been absolutely fucking terrible.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
Your silly zero sum games amount to nothing. Some representation is better than no representation.

And no, having West Bank and Gaza become one state will give Palestinians a slight majority if you combine the existing Israeli Arabs. This is why Israel wants neither one state or two state. If they were smart, they would go for two state and take the bitter pill now rather than wait and eventually be forced to take one state and lose majority.
I'm comparing two state to one state, not saying the status quo is ok and we should do nothing.
 
Last edited:

Jeb

Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
825
To all the Americans here, treasure her.
Regardless of whether she sloppy or not, she has guts.
This is a one in a million event, the rest of your politicians are either too cowardly or corrupt to even dare sort of imply anything with a .01% offend AIPAC.
She went out of her way to directly challenge it.
And now that she has openly challenged them and going by how her colleagues are such strong AIPAC supporters, most, if not all of Washington will be out to get her.

Please don’t let her come and go, the statous qou has been depressing for as long as I can remember.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,475
Wait, hold up, is the argument here that "it's all about the Benjamins" is racist regardless of context?
I mean, I don't want to shadowbox Chelsea Clinton here, but like, no one here thinks that, right?
I mean going by one poster sentiment here...you might be practicing antisemitism.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,514
Wait, hold up, is the argument here that "it's all about the Benjamins" is racist regardless of context?
I mean, I don't want to shadowbox Chelsea Clinton here, but like, no one here thinks that, right?
The argument in that tweet is that Chelsea Clinton is publicly calling out Omar for quoting a song with anti-semitic tropes which is something nobody that respected Jewish people would ever do. Except for when Chelsea Clinton herself did the same thing but it was OK then because reasons.

Moral of the story being that Chelsea Clinton is full of shit and nobody should pay her any fucking attention.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
11,644
Re-re-read what you wrote, what I wrote again, and my bad. I got that wrong.
I am too mad about it to type straight anyway. The way the TV media is just pretending to lay it all out innocently as if oh this is all normal. I'm turning off the TV. I'm just stunned nobody stood up for her or the underlying point.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,615
The argument in that tweet is that Chelsea Clinton is publicly calling out Omar for quoting a song with anti-semitic tropes which is something nobody that respected Jewish people would ever do. Except for when Chelsea Clinton herself did the same thing but it was OK then because reasons.

Moral of the story being that Chelsea Clinton is full of shit and nobody should pay her any fucking attention.
No wait, she only said "it's all about the Benjamins, baby".
Like, you seem to say that yes, just saying that is problematic.
I don't know what to tell you, I'm Jewish and I have never thought that, never met anyone that thought that, never even heard that. Pretty damn sure I used that or a variation of that phrase quite a few times in the past.



Well, if I'm really honest it feels like a bad faith attack, but I donno, I could be crazy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,462
Did she write that?
It is absurd to expect someone who did not grow up in the states to know a minor reference in a popular song. Folks are acting like everyone knows that is what the song is about. The phrase itself apart from the song has become part of normal discourse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,514
No wait, she only said "it's all about the Benjamins, baby".
Like, you seem to say that yes, just saying that is problematic.
I don't know what to tell you, I'm Jewish and I have never thought that, never met anyone that thought that, never even heard that. Pretty damn sure I used that or a variation of that phrase quite a few times in the past.



Well, if I'm really honest it feels like a bad faith attack, but I donno, I could be crazy.
You're not crazy.

"All about the Benjamins" has always been understood to refer to cash and not thought of as anti-semitic.

That's why Chelsea Clinton was happy to reference it in the past, because it is not a problematic phrase.

That's also why Chelsea Clinton and other people saying that Benjamin specifically (not the "Jewish money" conspiracy nonsense which is definitely anti-semitic but also not what Omar said) is anti-semitic should probably be ignored because they are being extremely dishonest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
You're not crazy.

"All about the Benjamins" has always been understood to refer to cash and not thought of as anti-semitic.

That's why Chelsea Clinton was happy to reference it in the past, because it is not a problematic phrase.

That's also why Chelsea Clinton and other people saying that Benjamin specifically (not the "Jewish money" conspiracy nonsense which is definitely anti-semitic but also not what Omar said) is anti-semitic should probably be ignored because they are being extremely dishonest.
Yes, the problem was that it was a synonym for cash. It's not a problematic phrase. The problem came with not being explicit about who she was referring to, then RTing a guy very upset because he interpreted her to be meaning Jewish people in general as though she was mocking him.
 
OP
OP
SaveWeyard

SaveWeyard

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
I mean, I hope it's obvious at this point that the only reason she ever received so much scrutiny on this is because she's a Black and Muslim woman.

White Jews shit on AIPAC and use language like this all the time and no one gives a fuck. If a Black Jew says it? Attacked relentlessly.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,615
Yes, the problem was that it was a synonym for cash. It's not a problematic phrase. The problem came with not being explicit about who she was referring to, then RTing a guy very upset because he interpreted her to be meaning Jewish people in general as though she was mocking him.
Why are you assuming good faith for Kevin McCarthy?
You really think there was a way she could have phrased that criticism that wouldn't have made him Very Upset and Terribly Concerned About Antisemitism?
I don't.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
I mean, I hope it's obvious at this point that the only reason she ever received so much scrutiny on this is because she's a Black and Muslim woman.

White Jews shit on AIPAC and use language like this all the time and no one gives a fuck. If a Black Jew says it? Attacked relentlessly.
Members of the same minority group can get away with looser language, yes. Some of the ways Bernie Sanders talks about economic populism are loose in a way that he wouldn't be able to get away with if he weren't Jewish because it's going to be obvious he's not using antisemitic dogwhistles.
Why are you assuming good faith for Kevin McCarthy?
You really think there was a way she could have phrased that criticism that wouldn't have made him Very Upset and Terribly Concerned About Antisemitism?
I don't.
I don't give a shit about Kevin McCarthy, the guy fucking put out ads with Soros conspiracy bullshit. Why would I give a shit what that spineless toad thinks?

I care about people on my half of the political axis being upset about this and not making up that they're upset.

I feel like a HUGE part of the missing context here is that Omar had been getting bad faith anti-semitism attacks from the GOP for a month+. One of the Jewish GOP reps had an absolutely absurd accusation/charge of it earlier this month. They were trying to make it stick. It didn't. The reason this stuck is not because of Kevin McCarthy!
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,514
Yes, the problem was that it was a synonym for cash. It's not a problematic phrase. The problem came with not being explicit about who she was referring to, then RTing a guy very upset because he interpreted her to be meaning Jewish people in general as though she was mocking him.
No the problem is that Democrats and Republicans are both united in the belief that Israel and its political interests are beyond reproach.

It's OK though, the Democrat leadership has given Omar a thorough dressing down and she's learned her lesson that the appearance of civility is more important that speaking up for the rights of the oppressed population of a murderous Apartheid state. Hopefully she'll know her place from now on and you won't have to spend this much time and energy pretending that a deleted retweet means anything more than someone hitting the retweet button after they stopped reading a tweet at the halfway mark.
 
Apr 13, 2018
314
The reason this stuck is not because of Kevin McCarthy!
It's because the party that should have been supporting her and should have given her the benefit of the doubt did precisely the opposite and raced with their "opposition" to be the ones to condemn her assumed intentions the most harshly.

I've never seen the democrats and republicans compete so hard at anything, not even an election
 
Status
Not open for further replies.