Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC

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Oct 25, 2017
4,882
This post misses the point of why that tweet got an antisemitic reaction. You're not saying anything don't agree with here. Yes, she was right. Where she fucked up was how she presented it. She didn't answer this like it was a question on Jeopardy. Many posters have gone into the details of why negative Jewish stereotypes are bad, but it's not getting through.



No, it's not. You're refusing to acknowledge the issue here isn't that back and white. No-one is arguing for AIPAC here, and you know it. Did you forget that AIPAC are Jewish, which is why this is coming off as bad? I agree they don't represent all Jewish people, but they don't have to for this to be viewed as anti-semitism.

This isn't about criticising Israel, i'ts clumsily attacking AIPAC with framing that can be interpreted as anti-semitism.



You can talk about the NRA like that since it's not an ethnic group or a persecuted history or has oppressive language by its enemies around the world because of the former. You can badmouth the NRA all you like and I'd agree with you, but this thread isn't about thread so they're off-topic.

You may not, but many Jewish people do and I'm not including AIPAC or Lukid. Which is why this is a controversial subject where people treat with kid gloves for a reason, particularly politicians.

Antisemitic language doesn't cease to be antisemitic despite having good intentions behind it. That was a tweet she has to apologise for, as well. There is no "get to of jail free" card for being racist because you had good intentions, it's not how this works.

You're focused on whether what her message was, which many people are doing to ignore the real problem here - the framing of her words. That's all it is. Posting responses like that is useless because I agree with you already, as do many other posters which keeps getting ignored because people want to get on a cross defending Omar, when she fucked up. More than once.



Why is it that are you unable to acknowledge that there is more to do this than that. That's what the AIPAC are doing, yes, we're not discussing that aspect because we agree on that. Linking money to AIPAC is naturally a bad idea to them because they are in fact Jewish, that does not go away to win an argument. It's why that's a tone deaf response. There was no clarity or nuance in her tweet so she got backlash from it.



That you can't see what's going on here is astounding, or you're trolling. It's disingenuous, regardless.

Ignore AIPAC, and their disingenuous claims - they have no credibility in this thread. This is about perception of antisemitism in American politics and global culture where showing signs of being an antisemitic is an obvious bad idea. This is nothing to do with AIPAC, as explained previously. It is possible to anciently say racist things without meaning to be racist, this is not something inherent to antisemitism. It's why white people don't say the R word, or touch Black people's hair.

Do none of you recognise antisemitic language when you see it in public? This is breathtakingly ignorant. The lack of self awareness is staggering. This is about antisemitic language can be appear antisemitic due its framing, his isn't about if she's right or this would be a very short thread because everyone agrees with her. Defaulting to that defence shows they're not looking at anything side from surface detail of a very serious topic.

"I agree with you all about AIPAC which is why I'm going to ignore AIPAC. Instead I'm going to spend a few pages obfuscating the topic by disingenuously contorting the fact that Ilhan Omar pointed directly to AIPAC into the claim that she might have been talking about the Jewish (((globalist))) cabal. That's how you know I'm on your side everybody!"

EDIT: I'm not saying that no Jewish person saw that tweet and immediately felt that visceral reaction like a gut punch because their mind immediately went to the old anti-Semitic conspiracies that have been peddled for generations. I know what that feels like, I've felt that same reaction many times myself. I'm saying that having seen Omar specifically point to AIPAC, having double and triple checked what she said and seen that at no point did she say anything about Jews or Jewish money, if people still want to talk about her saying something anti-semitic then they are being dishonest or extremely ignorant.
 
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Dec 26, 2018
2,387
"I agree with you all about AIPAC which is why I'm going to ignore AIPAC. Instead I'm going to spend a few pages obfuscating the topic by disingenuously contorting the fact that Ilhan Omar pointed directly to AIPAC into the claim that she might have been talking about the Jewish (((globalist))) cabal. That's how you know I'm on your side everybody!"
Wow, that sure is a take. This must be what it feels like to be a member of the UK Labour party.
 
Oct 27, 2017
19
Europe
Sorry, could you clarify again as to why you put up that 2012 tweet as an example of her using offensive Jewish stereotype?
In this case it’s "hypnotized the world": a stereotype that was made famous in the popular 19th century novel Trilby by George du Maurier. The protagonist is a sleazy Jew who literally hypnotizes his victim. The word Svengali originates from this novel and basically means a (Jewish) person who, with evil intent, manipulates and exerts control over another.
 
In this case it’s "hypnotized the world": a stereotype that was made famous in the popular 19th century novel Trilby by George du Maurier. The protagonist is a sleazy Jew who literally hypnotizes his victim. The word Svengali originates from this novel and basically means a (Jewish) person who, with evil intent, manipulates and exerts control over another.
I see. Consider me educated. I honestly don't know that "hypnotizing" is a negative stereotype for Jewish people.
 
May 18, 2018
225
Why is Israeli interference in American goverment affairs so okay for liberals and American senators unlike Russian Interference? Genuinely curious. I have seen many of the posters here who passionately argue against Russian interference and are nonchalant about AIPAC and Israeli interference.

Chomsky said: "First of all, if you’re interested in foreign interference in our elections, whatever the Russians may have done barely counts or weighs in the balance as compared with what another state does, openly, brazenly and with enormous support.”

Israeli intervention in U.S. elections vastly overwhelms anything the Russians may have done," Chomsky said. "I mean, even to the point where the prime minister of Israel, Netanyahu, goes directly to Congress, without even informing the president, and speaks to Congress, with overwhelming applause, to try to undermine the president’s policies—what happened with Obama and Netanyahu in 2015. Did Putin come to give an address to the joint sessions of Congress trying to—calling on them to reverse U.S. policy, without even informing the president?"
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/chomsky-criticizes-israeli-interference-in-u-s-elections-1.6407407

I see. Consider me educated. I honestly don't know that "hypnotizing" is a negative stereotype for Jewish people.
It's honestly so hard to criticize Israel - there's like a minefield of words that should not be used because it's antisemitic and one day I am going to get called anti-Semitic for unknowingly using one of these words.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,016
It's honestly so hard to criticize Israel - there's like a minefield of words that should not be used because it's antisemitic and one day I am going to get called anti-Semitic for unknowingly using one of these words.
It is. On one side I'm mad at the Israeli government for labelling criticism antisemitic, but on the other it really does shows that once upon a time the Jewish people was blamed for everything and used as the boogeyman.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
Not even close. When you really truly consider what the Nazis did in almost all areas - especially their treatment of Jews, where the industrial scale slaughter has and hopefully will never be seen again - the comparison is entirely inappropriate. As such, when people choose to make the comparison (with the implication of a sort of tutting, head-shaking 'the victims become the aggressor, look how the tables have turned' wryness), you *have* to interpret the comparison as one specifically chosen to most hurt the people of Israel precisely because you're claiming that they're acting just like those who enacted this unspeaking evil upon Jewish people.

No on will complain if you compare Israel to Apartheid South Africa, or expansionist Russia, or the Serbs, and any other of the countless far, far more appropriate comparisons. The problem comes when you specifically choose the one, inappropriate comparison that's designed to hurt as much as possible.
So you would be totally fine with that same thing being off-limits when discussing the Russian or Ukrainian government then? "We were targeted for extermination by the nazis, and invoking that word is nothing but disgusting racism!"
Do Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping get to hide behind Japanese atrocities to shield themselves from any criticism of ethnic cleansing or mass murder?
 
Oct 25, 2017
372
I'm specifically pointing out the fact that some people are offended by things the BLM activists do. And that it's not the job of the BLM activists to apologize to anyone whose feelings they hurt when they attack the institutions that perpetuate the subjugation of their people.

AIPAC is a racist, Islamophobic, war-mongering organization that exerts enormous influence on American politics. We should refuse to pile on Ilhan Omar for fumbling around her criticism of AIPAC when 90%+ of Congress members from both parties support such a racist organization in the first place.
Which part of this post was "Misrepresenting information" exactly?
 
Nov 27, 2018
217
I'm specifically pointing out the fact that some people are offended by things the BLM activists do. And that it's not the job of the BLM activists to apologize to anyone whose feelings they hurt when they attack the institutions that perpetuate the subjugation of their people.

AIPAC is a racist, Islamophobic, war-mongering organization that exerts enormous influence on American politics. We should refuse to pile on Ilhan Omar for fumbling around her criticism of AIPAC when 90%+ of Congress members from both parties support such a racist organization in the first place.
Great post. As a black muslim raised somali I couldn't agree more. I would also like to know where the misrepresenting information is so I can be educated?
 
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Nov 30, 2017
726
I'm specifically pointing out the fact that some people are offended by things the BLM activists do. And that it's not the job of the BLM activists to apologize to anyone whose feelings they hurt when they attack the institutions that perpetuate the subjugation of their people.

AIPAC is a racist, Islamophobic, war-mongering organization that exerts enormous influence on American politics. We should refuse to pile on Ilhan Omar for fumbling around her criticism of AIPAC when 90%+ of Congress members from both parties support such a racist organization in the first place.
#unbanclipjoint

Era moderation is the most reactionary shit lmao
 
Oct 30, 2017
874
#unbanclipjoint

Era moderation is the most reactionary shit lmao
Would be cool if ban tags listed the mod who pulled the trigger, but fuck accountability right? If you can’t win an argument with someone, just anonymously eject them from the conversation and smear their name.
 
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Nov 30, 2017
726
Would be cool if ban tags listed the mod who pulled the trigger, but fuck accountability right? If you can’t win an argument with someone, just eject them from the conversation and smear their name.
One would think we would, especially when you consider how much heat the mod team drew at the old place for abusing its power.
 
Oct 25, 2017
372
AIPAC is directly lobbying to pass bills that will help Israel further cement their foothold in the occupied territories. They're aiding in the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. They are racist. They are Islamophobic. There's no two ways about it.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,053
Why is Israeli interference in American goverment affairs so okay for liberals and American senators unlike Russian Interference? Genuinely curious. I have seen many of the posters here who passionately argue against Russian interference and are nonchalant about AIPAC and Israeli interference.



https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/chomsky-criticizes-israeli-interference-in-u-s-elections-1.6407407



It's honestly so hard to criticize Israel - there's like a minefield of words that should not be used because it's antisemitic and one day I am going to get called anti-Semitic for unknowingly using one of these words.
Could we criticize mega churches and evangelist being the biggest influence for why politician support them in the first place?

Or is that anti semitic as well?
 
You might have missed my quote, but sorry, could you clarify again as to why you put up that 2012 tweet as an example of her using offensive Jewish stereotypes?
I don’t believe the “hypnotized the world” tweet was intentionally antisemitic, but implicitly attributing some sort of secret, mystical power of manipulation is at least in Protocols-adjacent territory IMO.

as a non-Zionist Jew, I very strongly disagree with a lot of what gets labeled antisemitic in these discussions, but Omar was right to apologize in that particular case and I thought her apology was good
 
Nov 30, 2017
726
Could we criticize mega churches and evangelist being the biggest influence for why politician support them in the first place?

Or is that anti semitic as well?
We should criticize any and all religious organizations that beat a war drum or promote division between religions or ethnic groups.
 

Mist

Love & Respect
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Oct 25, 2017
1,936
Official Staff Communication
Thread reopened. Before we proceed please note the following:
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Thank you.
 
Dec 3, 2018
699
Official Staff Communication
Thread reopened. Before we proceed please note the following:
  • Because we've seen this misunderstanding crop up a few times: Royalan had zero involvement in any mod actions in this thread. Our standing policy is that moderators who choose to engage threads as posters recuse themselves from any reports or deliberations.
  • The Clipjoint ban was sent to review from the start, and it has now been overturned on review.
  • It's time to get back on topic. If you have further questions send us a PM so as not to derail this thread.
Thank you.
Thank you .
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,458
NJ
I hope she and Rashida don't let up. AIPAC deserves heavy scrutiny.

Once again, shame on the Democrats on how they handled this.
This is the only issue that both parties agree on and will never criticize Israel or any lobby which pushes for pro-Israel causes. Every presidential debate there is a question which basically asks "Which of you loves Israel the most and how would you profess your love?" Palestinians aren't even a part of the equation. Their pain, suffering, aspirations, and solutions are not even discussed. Not until at least you bend over backward to show how much you love Israel. and god forbid if you say anything that can be construed as anti-Semitic. It won't get past that and Palestinians won't ever be brought up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,351
This is the only issue that both parties agree on and will never criticize Israel or any lobby which pushes for pro-Israel causes. Every presidential debate there is a question which basically asks "Which of you loves Israel the most and how would you profess your love?" Palestinians aren't even a part of the equation. Their pain, suffering, aspirations, and solutions are not even discussed. Not until at least you bend over backward to show how much you love Israel. and god forbid if you say anything that can be construed as anti-Semitic. It won't get past that and Palestinians won't ever be brought up.
Yeah and the fact that the media doesn't really give a shit either is just as depressing. I hope things are different in the next decade or so as attitudes are changing and people are actually paying attention to the effects of money in politics.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,732
It is. On one side I'm mad at the Israeli government for labelling criticism antisemitic, but on the other it really does shows that once upon a time the Jewish people was blamed for everything and used as the boogeyman.
I hope that’s a joke cause that is most definitely still a thing.

Also this thread is getting ridiculous. I never thought her tweet was bad, but I agreed with the general sentiment that she needs to be better about her twitter usage. If she’s going to be critical about a powerful lobby, she needs to be careful. this isn’t some tough concept to understand.

And that doesn’t mean that any criticism against Israel or AIPAC will be seen as antisemitic or that she can’t speak out again. She literally criticized them in her apology - completely proving half the posters in this thread wrong about her verbiage. She’s a fucking politician. She needs to be intentional and precise. This forum is so happy to shit on Israel they don’t realize how fucking dumb they come off on certain things. George Bush got shit for saying he hates broccoli. Clinton even used it in his campaign against him.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,434
I hope that’s a joke cause that is most definitely still a thing.

Also this thread is getting ridiculous. I never thought her tweet was bad, but I agreed with the general sentiment that she needs to be better about her twitter usage. If she’s going to be critical about a powerful lobby, she needs to be careful. this isn’t some tough concept to understand.

And that doesn’t mean that any criticism against Israel or AIPAC will be seen as antisemitic or that she can’t speak out again. She literally criticized them in her apology - completely proving half the posters in this thread wrong about her verbiage. She’s a fucking politician. She needs to be intentional and precise. This forum is so happy to shit on Israel they don’t realize how fucking dumb they come off on certain things. George Bush got shit for saying he hates broccoli. Clinton even used it in his campaign against him.
Any criticism of Israel is seen as anti-semitic by AIPAC or Israel. It just is. Whether it's justified or not.

I'm not sure what George Bush has to do with this topic but broccoli is delicious.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,732
Any criticism of Israel is seen as anti-semitic by AIPAC or Israel. It just is. Whether it's justified or not.

I'm not sure what George Bush has to do with this topic but broccoli is delicious.
The point was a comment about personal taste in broccoli that should’ve been innocuous (certainly not as contentious as Israel/Palestine) ended up being a controversy.

And I agree. Broccoli is delicious.
 
Dec 3, 2018
699
NY op ed

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/opinion/ilhan-omar-antisemitism.html

Specifically this part

After I tweeted about Omar on Monday, an anti-racist activist sent me a message expressing genuine confusion about why I found the congresswoman’s words offensive. After all, it’s hardly radical to point out that lobbyist money has pernicious political effects. (Aipac doesn’t make direct contributions to candidates, but it does rally donors on their behalf.) And I certainly have no problem with denunciations of Aipac, which plays a malign role in pushing American policy in the Middle East to the right.
But at a moment when activists have finally pried open space in American politics to question our relationship with Israel, it’s particularly incumbent on Israel’s legitimate critics to avoid anything that smacks of anti-Jewish bigotry. And the idea of Jews as global puppet masters, using their financial savvy to make the gentiles do their bidding, clearly does.
In 2017, Jews for Racial and Economic Justice, a left-wing, broadly anti-Israel group, put out a guide to help progressives understand anti-Semitism. It describes how in “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” the early-20th-century Russian forgery purporting to reveal a Jewish plan for world domination, “Jews are depicted as shadowy figures with a lot of money, top-level access, ready to betray the nations of our residence (and our neighbors) in service of an unseen authority.”
The author seems to admit that AIPAC pushes members to fund politicians on causes and then says that because of the fact that activists have successfully opened discussion on America’s relationship with Israel they have to avoid being anti-Jew which is what antisemitism is

The author doesn’t point on that the relationship with Israel debate has opened up because of israel’s Apartheid actions against Palestinians which has resulted in BDS. If critics go against the faith of ethnicity of the people of Israel everyone will denounce it but to glue the criticism of Israel to antisemitism is just giving critics proof that many like to equate debates against Israeli foreign policy with antisemitism.

Notice that Rep. Omar was only talking about republicans, she wasn’t talking about her own party . Leader McCarthy pushes islamophobic attacks against Rep. Omar, she responds by saying he is funded by the islamophobic aipac right wing lobby group and she is then called a bigot . That is why there is a huge debate . leader McCarthy got off Scott free in October when he said all these Jewish donors control elections and now here with islamophobia and instead leaders of Rep. omar’s Own party have thrown her under the bus while defending the very leader who has been both islamophobic and antisemitic

Common sense folks and younger generation will clearly see this and will only further question why America allows Israeli government to be so aggressive against Palestinians. This event will not help . It only aggravated
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,458
NJ
Yeah and the fact that the media doesn't really give a shit either is just as depressing. I hope things are different in the next decade or so as attitudes are changing and people are actually paying attention to the effects of money in politics.
You know it won't. Since I have been politically aware/awake (freshman yr in college 2001) I haven't seen the debate shift an inch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
Saying that a very powerful and influential lobby throws huge amounts of money and propaganda is forbidden now, despite... Lobbies doing exactly that? Like, that's AIPAC's job ?
lol it's beyond messed up. Israel and their agents can honestly get away with anything. American politicians (Western in general) are a fucking joke.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,016
I hope that’s a joke cause that is most definitely still a thing.

Also this thread is getting ridiculous. I never thought her tweet was bad, but I agreed with the general sentiment that she needs to be better about her twitter usage. If she’s going to be critical about a powerful lobby, she needs to be careful. this isn’t some tough concept to understand.

And that doesn’t mean that any criticism against Israel or AIPAC will be seen as antisemitic or that she can’t speak out again. She literally criticized them in her apology - completely proving half the posters in this thread wrong about her verbiage. She’s a fucking politician. She needs to be intentional and precise. This forum is so happy to shit on Israel they don’t realize how fucking dumb they come off on certain things. George Bush got shit for saying he hates broccoli. Clinton even used it in his campaign against him.
It's not a joke but poorly written.

I dont mean that it's still not a thing, but things were way worse in the past.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,806
Kitchener, ON
The issue is, there isn't another option.
Barring creating an actual left-of-center political party in the United States and having it gain traction, you do have one option and it is the following...

1) Vote out every Republican everywhere
2) Primary out Democrats in pure blue districts who treat Palestinians as irrelevant / take money from AIPAC / profess undying love for Israel's oppressive regime

And, best of all, the AOCs and others you're replacing the old white male guard with are probably going to be more progressive on other issues, too.

Also, protest the fuck out of your mainstream media apparatus. Because it continues to fail you in irreparably harmful ways.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,222
I don't agree with it because it's stupidly pointless as the entire plan to hurt AIPAC, even your own people have lost hope in the activist left because they can't get their shit together.
Actually, the plan is to get Israel to stop doing a genocide and apartheid. It's alright if you don't like or agree with it, it's still doing more than what your people are doing.. which is capitulating to the lobby and to Israel.
 
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