Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC

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julian

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Oct 27, 2017
4,879
It's not a joke but poorly written.

I dont mean that it's still not a thing, but things were way worse in the past.
Oh sure. Coming from a family that fled pogroms, I’d say things are looking up. But given the rise in Nazi imagery and anti-Semitic attacks, we’ve still got a ways to go.

And don’t get me started on casual anti-semitism. Had a manager tell me not to “let them Jew me down” just last week.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,021
Barring creating an actual left-of-center political party in the United States and having it gain traction, you do have one option and it is the following...

1) Vote out every Republican everywhere
2) Primary out Democrats in pure blue districts who treat Palestinians as irrelevant / take money from AIPAC / profess undying love for Israel's oppressive regime

And, best of all, the AOCs and others you're replacing the old white male guard with are probably going to be more progressive on other issues, too.

Also, protest the fuck out of your mainstream media apparatus. Because it continues to fail you in irreparably harmful ways.
I live in a pure blue district and the simple fact is, most of the time, people critical of AIPAC/Israel do not run in this country. At least in my experience. I do what I can and talk to my progressive friends about it but I just feel like it's an echo chamber. When I bring it up to more conservative folks they simply do not care about lobbying or Palestine. Or even acknowledge that Palestine is even a country.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,616
NY op ed

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/opinion/ilhan-omar-antisemitism.html

Specifically this part



The author seems to admit that AIPAC pushes members to fund politicians on causes and then says that because of the fact that activists have successfully opened discussion on America’s relationship with Israel they have to avoid being anti-Jew which is what antisemitism is

The author doesn’t point on that the relationship with Israel debate has opened up because of israel’s Apartheid actions against Palestinians which has resulted in BDS. If critics go against the faith of ethnicity of the people of Israel everyone will denounce it but to glue the criticism of Israel to antisemitism is just giving critics proof that many like to equate debates against Israeli foreign policy with antisemitism.

Notice that Rep. Omar was only talking about republicans, she wasn’t talking about her own party . Leader McCarthy pushes islamophobic attacks against Rep. Omar, she responds by saying he is funded by the islamophobic aipac right wing lobby group and she is then called a bigot . That is why there is a huge debate . leader McCarthy got off Scott free in October when he said all these Jewish donors control elections and now here with islamophobia and instead leaders of Rep. omar’s Own party have thrown her under the bus while defending the very leader who has been both islamophobic and antisemitic

Common sense folks and younger generation will clearly see this and will only further question why America allows Israeli government to be so aggressive against Palestinians. This event will not help . It only aggravated
That's some grade A level gaslighting. "AIPAC uses its members to funnel money to further its right-wing, really bad ME policy. But don't point that out because that's also antisemitism."
What?!

Yup. Be careful not to insult Chelsea Clinton on twitter unless you want the banhammer.
I don't get it. Why is anyone looking for Chelsea Clinton's takes in the first place?

I do my share of BDS and never buy Sabra hummus.
Always make your own hummus, it's way better.
 

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
454
California
I'm disturbed and fucking infuriated by the ABC news on this. The way they talked down about Omar is fucking weird. There must be some grand conspiracy with this since I haven't seen a good reason for what's going on. She's absolutely right and anyone for Israel's actions needs to fucking get lost. Now I'm remember why I can't stand "Chuck & Nancy". There two rotten old fucks who seem to be on the same page as the worst republicans when it comes to that and the media on the "left" seem to back them completely.
 
OP
OP
SaveWeyard

SaveWeyard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
I'm disturbed and fucking infuriated by the ABC news on this. The way they talked down about Omar is fucking weird. There must be some grand conspiracy with this since I haven't seen a good reason for what's going on. She's absolutely right and anyone for Israel's actions needs to fucking get lost. Now I'm remember why I can't stand "Chuck & Nancy". There two rotten old fucks who seem to be on the same page as the worst republicans when it comes to that and the media on the "left" seem to back them completely.
No grand conspiracy, just three words: Black. Muslim. Woman.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,788
Oh sure. Coming from a family that fled pogroms, I’d say things are looking up. But given the rise in Nazi imagery and anti-Semitic attacks, we’ve still got a ways to go.

And don’t get me started on casual anti-semitism. Had a manager tell me not to “let them Jew me down” just last week.
yeah I know, apologies if it came off badly. Honestly didn't mean to handwave present anti-semitic attacks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,028
Isn’t BDS simply a form of peaceful civil disobedience movement occurring on a global scale in reaction to IDF and settlements? Still don’t understand how it is antisemitic
It's not anti-semitic at all, fuck their claims.

That doesn't make any sense. Who created that lyric?

There is no trope. You bunch of dupes.


Broad shot, coming thru.

How hard is it to get your shit correct on what is happening here? You claim to be liberal and allies and this is what you do? Fuck outta here with that.
This is why NOBODY TRUSTS YOU TO DO THE RIGHT THING EVER. Cos you won't. You are not allies. You aren't even liberal. You're just all delusional.
Facts. From here in the U.K to the States, the same shit happens. Have to mention this isn't specific to anyone here, it's just I've been feeling this way for years and it doesn't stop.
''Allies'', my faith in this concept falters daily. Man I'm hating 2019 already.
 
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Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,142
You can talk about the NRA like that since it's not an ethnic group or a persecuted history or has oppressive language by its enemies around the world because of the former. You can badmouth the NRA all you like and I'd agree with you, but this thread isn't about thread so they're off-topic.
AIPAC is not an ethnic group.
For real man, what is this shit?
I mean, you want to talk offensive language, as a Jew I'm fucking annoyed that I'm being conflated with an organization like AIPAC.


You may not, but many Jewish people do and I'm not including AIPAC or Lukid. Which is why this is a controversial subject where people treat with kid gloves for a reason, particularly politicians.
Well, it's hard to respond to what many unnamed Jewish people think, but do you think that?
Because if you do, you really need to educate yourself, again, AIPAC lobbied against Oslo and against Rabin, a sitting prime minister, it's got so bad that the he tried to start a competing Israeli group because he considered them straight up an organ of the Likud. But like, he was just a prime minister that was murdered, what he thought about AIPAC shouldn't really count as what the Jewish Silent Majority or whatever thinks.
And FYI, it only got worse since the 90s.
Antisemitic language doesn't cease to be antisemitic despite having good intentions behind it. That was a tweet she has to apologise for, as well. There is no "get to of jail free" card for being racist because you had good intentions, it's not how this works.
So first of all, can you please explain to me where the antisemitic language is it?
I'm Jewish and I really really don't see it.
You think that you can't be saying "it's all about the Benajamins" when talking about an issue that might relate to some Jewish people?
Because that's fucking insane to me, and honestly, does not sounds like a good faith critique.
And for fuck's sake, of course intent matter, that's the difference between being insensitive or a jerk than being a racist.
We should strive to be neither and apologize for the former of course, but treating careless phrasing like it's actual racism does very little but downplay how serious racism is.
Though again, I don't even really see careless phrasing here, maybe you can elaborate.
All I see is Republicans trying to use "SJW Judo" against people on left, like, "oh, they don't like racists, what if we say that they're the were the real racists all alone".
They do that all the fucking time, I mean, remember how many times Obama was accused of being the real racist all along?
Remember how they all called him antisemite after he said some things that they didn't like about AIPAC?
Usually, most of the Dems don't fall for that, though they did in this case.
I wonder if there's something special about Ilhan Omar that made them way more likely to jump on her.
Nah, must be some weird coincidence.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,935
Spain
No I'm literally describing the behavior of Congress. Personally I would retweet that tomorrow but without the name pun? AIPAC deserves huge scrutiny as does its spending and power over both parties and houses.

They are using her pun to avoid answering her question and if it had been a Mohammad or Arab name pun about Saudi Arabia it would have created a similar scale of stir.

I believe that our officials are grabbing that as a straw to shunt their responsibility to the side in favor of outrage. I have no idea if that was her intention. It's only obvious in retrospect with the reactions. First time I saw the headline it didn't twig. Five craven congressmen ignoring the underlying issue later and here we are.
Benjamin? This Benjamin?

 
Oct 25, 2017
6,028

If, like Pelosi said in her statement, we must denounce all forms of hatred, racism, and discrimination, then we must denounce a genocidal, apartheid state and anyone who supports is.
That'll never happen. This incident is indicative of that.
People have been urging many to put Israel's actions to account for years, decades even.
More Palestinians will be killed in the coming months and years, and the Israeli government and their supporters will continue without a bother.
Fuck Israel.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,950
That'll never happen. This incident is indicative of that.
People have been urging many to put Israel's actions to account for years, decades even.
More Palestinians will be killed in the coming months and years, and the Israeli government and their supporters will continue without a bother.
Fuck Israel.
I feel you, fam. It is going to be hard and while we fight, Palestinian lives will be lost.


Here’s a shitty tweet from Howard Dean:

 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,252
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely jump at the opportunity to point out racial double standards.

But this...this dog don't hunt.

You can't simultaneously argue that anybody who dares criticize Israel and/or AIPAC gets labeled an anti-Semite, AND that this is only a story because Omar is a Black Muslim and any white guy doing this would have gotten off scot-free.
I don't get your response here, judging by your reply's in this thread do you even agree with either of these statements? Let alone whether or not their contradictory. There's nothing stopping someone from picking one or the other.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,142
I feel you, fam. It is going to be hard and while we fight, Palestinian lives will be lost.


Here’s a shitty tweet from Howard Dean:

As a Jew, I'm super super comfortable seeing a bunch of white dudes explaining to a black Muslim woman what racism is.
At least he's getting ratioed.
 

Dopus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
454
That Clipjoint ban is bullshit. Mods need to stop acting like cunts who throw out bans when conversations are not to their liking because they can't handle the conversation taking place. Shut the fuck up and let the conversation flow rather than trying to stifle it. He ain't done anything in the discussion worthy of a ban. And citing some bullshit reason as "misrepresenting information" along with some vague allusions to past incidents, which if this ban was anything to go by, may be similarly bullshit, ain't justifying it. It basically reeks of "I'm tired of this fucker and this discussion, let's just ban him to stop him coming at it".
Could the mods review this ban too?
 

PMS341

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,691
User banned (3 days): modwhining and ignoring staff post
Why are people being banned in this topic? Especially for the posts in question. What the hell?
 

KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
637
Indianapolis
You know, it's actually not up to me to dictate whether or not what she did was anti-Semitic. I'm not Jewish. But some (not all) Jewish people have weighed in and some determined that it was. And really, my only argument in this thread is that really should be the end of the discussion regarding Omar's tweeting habits. I suppose what it boils down to is if those people who were offended matter, and if it was worth it to apologize for their sake. Omar clearly made the determination that it was, and personally I'm grateful for that. Because you actually can take on the bipartisan effort to coddle the Israeli government and not be sloppy on Twitter.
Some otherwise liberal white people are genuinely offended by the term white privilege. But I don't give a fuck and that doesn't make calling out the fact that white privilege exists racist.

Likewise, it is a fucking fact that AIPAC uses money to push a pro Israel agenda in Washington. If someone is offended by a tweet calling attention to the fact that lobbies use money to influence policy, then too bad. Doesn't make the tweet or the fact it was highlighting racist. Race is only even tangentially related to the topic because of the fact that Israel is an ethno- nationalist, neo fascist state engaging in ethnic cleansing and practicing racial apartheid.

But let's ignore all of that, except to briefly acknowledge it and say how unfortunate it is, before spending pages admonishing and tone policing people for calling a spade a spade.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,031
No, he was not calling it a hoax. Russia has a lot of active propaganda campaigns going on regarding Ukraine in order to "justify" the Crimean invasion. He's asking a question, not making a statement, because bad-faith shit being played up by the right wing isn't unique to anyone and has to be muddled through everywhere.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,142
Some otherwise liberal white people are genuinely offended by the term white privilege. But I don't give a fuck and that doesn't make calling out the fact that white privilege exists racist.

Likewise, it is a fucking fact that AIPAC uses money to push a pro Israel agenda in Washington. If someone is offended by a tweet calling attention to the fact that lobbies use money to influence policy, then too bad. Doesn't make the tweet or the fact it was highlighting racist. Race is only even tangentially related to the topic because of the fact that Israel is an ethno- nationalist, neo fascist state engaging in ethnic cleansing and practicing racial apartheid.

But let's ignore all of that, except to briefly acknowledge it and say how unfortunate it is, before spending pages admonishing and tone policing people for calling a spade a spade.
And a reminded, this whole thing started because Kevin McCarthy wanted to punish her an Talib for not supporting Israel enough, and remember, he called both of them antisemitic before Omar responded to him.
But no, we must take this bad faith argument super seriously, I mean, "it's all about the Benajamins" is apparently like the n-word for Jews now or something?

p.s.
I wonder why he singled out Omar and Talib.
I guess that's a mystery that would never be solved.
But what we do know is that the Muslim women of color were the real racists all alone.
What a twist!
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,031
And a reminded, this whole thing started because Kevin McCarthy wanted to punish her an Talib for not supporting Israel enough, and remember, he called both of them antisemitic before Omar responded to him.
But no, we must take this bad faith argument super seriously, I mean, "it's all about the Benajamins" is apparently like the n-word for Jews now or something?

p.s.
I wonder why he singled out Omar and Talib.
I guess that's a mystery that would never be solved.
But what we do know is that the Muslim women of color were the real racists all alone.
What a twist!
This is when the GOP side started yes. It's been going on a while now, it's super gross, and nothing either has done recently has drawn any flack from the Dem side until now. If they were taking him seriously, why wouldn't they have bit on the previous billion opportunities he threw out? The idea that Dems took him seriously is completely ridiculous.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
978
And a reminded, this whole thing started because Kevin McCarthy wanted to punish her an Talib for not supporting Israel enough, and remember, he called both of them antisemitic before Omar responded to him.
But no, we must take this bad faith argument super seriously, I mean, "it's all about the Benajamins" is apparently like the n-word for Jews now or something?

p.s.
I wonder why he singled out Omar and Talib.
I guess that's a mystery that would never be solved.
But what we do know is that the Muslim women of color were the real racists all alone.
What a twist!

Aye, some truth here.

Sad that some people are more concerned about towing the party line then dead Palestinians 😞
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,142
No, he was not calling it a hoax. Russia has a lot of active propaganda campaigns going on regarding Ukraine in order to "justify" the Crimean invasion. He's asking a question, not making a statement, because bad-faith shit being played up by the right wing isn't unique to anyone and has to be muddled through everywhere.
Ukraine has probably the most problematic history of antisemitism of any country in post WWII (and like, if it wasn't for Germany they would be a strong contender for that coveted #1 of all time spot).
This does not mean that anything anyone say about Ukraine is true, and obviously, not everyone there is an antisemite (I got family there still!) but there is less reason to doubt such stories than to doubt a story about anti-black racism in the US.
And like, how would you react to people who respond to news about police shooting a black kid with "are we sure this isn't propaganda?"
I mean, if we're talking about Good Looks, that's a bit of a bad one.

But again, this was not about Jews and it never was, this is about not talking about what Israel and AIPAC are doing.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,142
This is when the GOP side started yes. It's been going on a while now, it's super gross, and nothing either has done recently has drawn any flack from the Dem side until now. If they were taking him seriously, why wouldn't they have bit on the previous billion opportunities he threw out? The idea that Dems took him seriously is completely ridiculous.
They don't take him seriously, it's just that a lot of dems have this instinct to align with Israel immediately and to think why later.
Sadly, this time, they really helped Kevin McCarthy to show that it was reverse racism by black women that was the real problem all along!

Did you know that Omar and Talib are more racist than Steve King?
It's true!
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,031
But again, this was not about Jews and it never was,
She likely didn't intend it to be. But she sideswiped them. Hence the apology that included a slam at AIPAC.

And that's the problem. There are many like yourself, claiming it just didn't matter. That people were lying when they said they were upset by it. That this is really about AIPAC/Israel, and not about intra-Dem politics and the need to make sure your members aren't constantly saying dumb shit in a broad coalition with a large number of minority groups that need to be able to get along and work together.
 

Bramblebutt

Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,318
I know I criticized Omar's comments earlier in this thread, but the continuing condemnation from both D and R, after she clarified her meaning and apologized for her miscommunication, is ridiculous and embarrassing. This barrage of polemic against her character for inelegant criticism of one of the most influential lobbies in Congress is not only completely out of proportion to the severity of her misstep, but seems like a stark example of exactly what she said and is saying. The longer and harder these politicians harp on this issue, the less I believe they actually genuinely give a shit about a conversation of problematic language and stereotypes, and the more I believe they're cravenly trying to kill the conversation about AIPAC lobbying entirely.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
There's nothing wrong with that tweet. Although, what you are doing is antisemitic, I'm afraid. She didn't mention Jews or Jewish people. Conflating AIPAC or Israel with Jewish people generally is antisemitism. It's astounding how so many of you who claim she has uttered an antisemitic statement are the ones invoking the trope, not her.
This is just pathetic.

As far as I can tell, no one is conflating Israel or AIPAC with Jewish people generally; people are acknowledging that Jewishness is part of their texture, that both are common avenues for anti-Semitism, and that this should affect how we navigate discussion regarding them. Why is it that when it comes to this subject, bigotry is suddenly so...simplistic? Since when did you have to overtly comment on "x people generally" to evoke harmful tropes, to tap into harmful forces, to reinforce harmful perceptions?

Also, I don't think anyone reasonable is saying she invoked the trope. There was clearly no intentionality. She evoked it.

So what Rep. Omar did was simple. Support for Israel comes from a lot of places, but in a reductionist fashion, she attributed it to money/AIPAC. Such reductionism, in and of itself, is the stuff of stereotypes; in tends to, in a selective fashion, choose a certain subject, erases the complexity and diversity and conflict from that subject, and situates it around a single thing. In this case, that single thing was money. Money is the reason that people support Israel. All of this intersects with anti-Semitic tropes - tropes that should actively be avoided.

It shouldn't have ever blown up the way it did, but that was her mistake. "You're on the right side of history, I hope you continue this fight, and I get that navigating around this is tricky, but that specific framing can be hurtful and damaging" was the extent of what Rep. Omar needed to hear.

What I find amazing is that instead of being sensitive to the trickier dimensions of her commentary, it's the people who think she evoked something troublesome who are anti-Semitic. Like...I'm sorry, but how is this not just a repackaging of "actually you're the racist for focusing on race"?
 
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