Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC

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Royalan

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Oct 24, 2017
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But it's only a subject that needs so much effort and nuance to navigate BECAUSE of the bad faith critics. It would have been completely uncontroversial if she had made the exact same comment about the gun lobby, energy, defense, tech, etc. But we have been trained by bad faith actors that any criticism of the pro-Israeli lobby requires a tap dancing act around any number of landmines, and oh by the way, even if you navigate them perfectly you'll still be labelled an anti-Semite because it's not the language they object to - it's the policy.
But who here in this thread is arguing this? Not me, and certainly not even you. Because you, in several posts now, have gracefully laid out the problem with the exact same specificity and depth that people are seemingly arguing that Ilhan Omar is not capable of.

And, once again, who is "They?"
 
Mar 13, 2018
1,308
If you guys have issues, I suggest you call your reps as well as other organizations. No one's going to know your opinion in a thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
705
Amazing how everyone with an Israel flag on their twitter profile always throws out the "anti-Semitic" response when someone says something negative about that place.

Fuck Israel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,405
How is it not anti-semetic to police the boundaries of Jewishness and imply ALL Jewish people march in lockstep with AIPAC and its attendant ideology? How is it not anti-semetic to erase the huge swaths of liberal-minded Jewish people, that dissent from both AIPAC and the Israeli government's policy agenda, from The Discourse? I mean, am I missing something? Do I have a blind spot? It seems like the mainstream media and D.C. establishment has internalized an inverse form of anti-semetism that shows itself when specious claims of anti-semetism are made.
Can someone point me to a quote from this mess that makes the above post not completely irrational?
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,993
Yeah this is clearly what they are implying but are too scared to say.
Yeah this is clearly what they are implying but are too scared to say.

"You can criticize Israel but just don't say anything about the millions of dollars in the lobbies"
Incorrect, what I’m saying is that as a congresswoman you shouldn’t boil down a complicated issue such as this into a flippant tweet that could be read as anti-Semitic
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
Can someone point me to a quote from this mess that makes the above post not completely irrational?
Nobody mentioned Jewish people until people were crying fouls of antisemitism. The context was always about Israeli/Israeli lobby. People jumping to antisemitism are boxing Judaism to Israel
 
Oct 27, 2017
119
But who here in this thread is arguing this? Not me, and certainly not even you. Because you, in several posts now, have gracefully laid out the problem with the exact same specificity and depth that people are seemingly arguing that Ilhan Omar is not capable of.

And, once again, who is "They?"
"They" is the people who will attack in bad faith, on both sides of the political spectrum, no matter what language is used. Because they don't 'actually' object to the language, they really object to the messenger.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,124
Can someone point me to a quote from this mess that makes the above post not completely irrational?
They are saying that calling any criticism of Israel as a state 'anti-semetism' is itself anti-semetic because you are lumping in every Jewish person in with Israel, even the Jewish people that oppose Israel's actions as a state.
 

Chikor

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Oct 26, 2017
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Okay, so everyone who does not like AIPAC or Israel but is really concern about antisemtism, tell me, what effect do you think any of that will have?
Because I think it will do shit and all for racism and antisemitism, but it will further make it clear for politicians that it's best to not even try to talk about AIPAC or Israel, let alone straight up criticizing them.
 

Jag

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Oct 26, 2017
2,507
"We will always be strong supporters of Israel in Congress "

There it is
Maybe read the entire thing.
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/21119/

“We are and will always be strong supporters of Israel in Congress because we understand that our support is based on shared values and strategic interests. Legitimate criticism of Israel’s policies is protected by the values of free speech and democratic debate that the United States and Israel share. But Congresswoman Omar’s use of anti-Semitic tropes and prejudicial accusations about Israel’s supporters is deeply offensive. We condemn these remarks and we call upon Congresswoman Omar to immediately apologize for these hurtful comments.


“As Democrats and as Americans, the entire Congress must be fully engaged in denouncing and rejecting all forms of hatred, racism, prejudice and discrimination wherever they are encountered.”
 
Oct 27, 2017
771
legitimate criticism like pointing out the obscene power AIPAC has earned through lobbying? I guess thats anti-semetic though because she mentioned money, a concept that happens to be very important in politics
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,312
Kentucky
Okay, so everyone who does not like AIPAC or Israel but is really concern about antisemtism, tell me, what effect do you think any of that will have?
Because I think it will do shit and all for racism and antisemitism, but it will further make it clear for politicians that it's best to not even try to talk about AIPAC or Israel, let alone straight up criticizing them.
It won't do a thing. This should have been handled privately. Pretty disappointed right now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,234
Comparing her statement to "hatred, racism, prejudice and discrimination" is straight up trash.

Pelosi's House is ready to throw anyone under the bus who rocks the boat or questions moneyed interests.
 

Jeb

Member
Mar 14, 2018
402
So... when is Pelosi gonna tackle the problem of the pro-Isreal lobby’s influence?
No?
How about the aparthied and genicidal tactics of Isreal?
No?
But by all means, this tweet is what’s really important enough to respond to.

This is why I fucking respect the courage to challenge the lobby.
Sheer cowardice of her peers.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,367
"rejecting all forms of hatred, racism, prejudice and discrimination"

"our support is based on shared values and strategic interests"

Is the gif implying you disagree with the second quote, and if yes, what do you believe is the actual reason for support?
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,156
So... when is Pelosi gonna tackle the problem of the pro-Isreal lobby’s influence?
No?
How about the aparthied and genicidal tactics of Isreal?
No?
But by all means, this tweet is what’s really important enough to respond to.

This is why I fucking respect the courage to challenge the lobby.
Sheer cowardice of her peers.
Yep, fully agreed. Pathetic fucking cowards.
 
Oct 25, 2017
49
Can someone point me to a quote from this mess that makes the above post not completely irrational?
No quotes, but it helps to be be extremely online. I've seen the same arguments regurgitated ad nauseum my entire life. These debates are all grounded in basically the same logic.

And TBH I think that post can also apply to many groups. Marginalized people are afforded a very limited dimension in the mainstream Western media. It always creates a lopsided image of reality. But unlike other groups, the media does not have the same zeal to allow a platform for liberal Jewish perspectives. Palestinians need not apply, of course.
 

Chikor

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,223
It won't do a thing. This should have been handled privately. Pretty disappointed right now.
You understand that when people of you attacking Omar Ilhan you making such behavior more likely?
To be clear, I'm not accusing you of acting in bad faith, in fact, tour value is exactly because you're not a bad faith actor who defends AIPAC and Israel no matter what.

I'm not saying that you should not call out racists or anything, far from it, but I think it's something to consider, because while you personally probably dno't a have a ton of influence, American Jews as a group do, and their support for Israel helped shaped America policies toward Israel, and I honestly think they're the group with the best chance of bringing meaningful and positive change to this mess.
 

Royalan

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Oct 24, 2017
1,702
"They" is the people who will attack in bad faith, on both sides of the political spectrum, no matter what language is used. Because they don't 'actually' object to the language, they really object to the messenger.
And that's fair.

I only caution to avoid lumping the two together. That's a core pillar of being a big tent coalition, which the left is. Ilhan Omar, after multiple gaffes, and multiple instances of people having to explain her language for her (because it really must be stressed that we're here again), is being taken to task by people who are her allies. She's not being asked to stop what she's saying (and, no, she's not even the only one saying it). She's merely being asked to stop shooting herself in the face while she's saying it. And I don't necessarily think that criticism is invalid because the right is doing the same bullshit the right always does.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,405
No quotes, but it helps to be be extremely online. I've seen the same arguments regurgitated ad nauseum my entire life. These debates are all grounded in basically the same logic.

And TBH I think that post can also apply to many groups. Marginalized people are afforded a very limited dimension in the mainstream Western media. It always creates a lopsided image of reality. But unlike other groups, the media does not have the same zeal to allow a platform for liberal Jewish perspectives. Palestinians need not apply, of course.
I misunderstood your position, thanks.
 

Chikor

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Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,223
"...support is based on shared values and strategic interests"

Pretty gross but at least they make their priorities clear.
I seriously doubt that Bibi Netanyahu and Nancy Pelosi share a single value.

One of the many reasons this shit make me want to pull my hair.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,324
It won't do a thing. This should have been handled privately. Pretty disappointed right now.
Absolutely. Dogpiling her in public is theater which is weird because most of the people here hand wringing over her comments have criticized performative wokeness in other contexts
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,312
Kentucky
You understand that when people of you attacking Omar Ilhan you making such behavior more likely?
To be clear, I'm not accusing you of acting in bad faith, in fact, tour value is exactly because you're not a bad faith actor who defends AIPAC and Israel no matter what.

I'm not saying that you should not call out racists or anything, far from it, but I think it's something to consider, because while you personally probably dno't a have a ton of influence, American Jews as a group do, and their support for Israel helped shaped America policies toward Israel, and I honestly think they're the group with the best chance of bringing meaningful and positive change to this mess.
Yeah, you're right on the money. I'm just upset about this whole thing, man.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,197
Edmonton
Happens every time. It's just proof that at the end of the day, very few people actually care about Palestinians and their plight.
Not even the Arab states give a flying fuck about Palestinians. Their treatment at the hands of states such as Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and the GCC is down right horrific. What hope do they have when even their so called Arab brethren treat them with such disdain?
 
Oct 27, 2017
771
And that's fair.

I only caution to avoid lumping the two together. That's a core pillar of being a big tent coalition, which the left is. Ilhan Omar, after multiple gaffes, and multiple instances of people having to explain her language for her (because it really must be stressed that we're here again), is being taken to task by people who are her allies. She's not being asked to stop what she's saying (and, no, she's not even the only one saying it). She's merely being asked to stop shooting herself in the face while she's saying it. And I don't necessarily think that criticism is invalid because the right is doing the same bullshit the right always does.
now this is concern trolling. you cant just declare things anti-semetic you know
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,206
And that's fair.

I only caution to avoid lumping the two together. That's a core pillar of being a big tent coalition, which the left is. Ilhan Omar, after multiple gaffes, and multiple instances of people having to explain her language for her (because it really must be stressed that we're here again), is being taken to task by people who are her allies. She's not being asked to stop what she's saying (and, no, she's not even the only one saying it). She's merely being asked to stop shooting herself in the face while she's saying it. And I don't necessarily think that criticism is invalid because the right is doing the same bullshit the right always does.
The people criticizing her are not her allies.
 
Oct 27, 2017
622
I mean, she came out in support of Maduro, so clearly she's okay with brutal, murderous heads of state as long as they identify as leftists.
Sadly, she said that the sanctions the OBAMA and Trump administration imposed on the regime harms the Venezuelans. Wrong, they target Maduro and his cronies. It is disappointing that someone that is completely right about Israel is completely wrong about Venezuela and supporting that scumbag called Maduro.

She NOT supportive of Maduro. She's never been supportive of Maduro. Those Venezuelan tweets were lacking, but they WERR NOT in support of Maduro.

And while those sanctions were targeted primarily for Maduro, that doesn't mean that secondary negative effects towards the common Venezuelan didn't happen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,167
Absolutely. Dogpiling her in public is theater which is weird because most of the people here hand wringing over her comments have criticized performative wokeness in other contexts
Meanwhile, if the same thing was said about the Saudis, the Russians, or Chinese...crickets.
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,647
She NOT supportive of Maduro. She's never been supportive of Maduro. Those Venezuelan tweets were lacking, but they WERR NOT in support of Maduro.

And while those sanctions were targeted primarily for Maduro, that doesn't mean that secondary negative effects towards the common Venezuelan didn't happen.
She flat-out called the situation in Venezuela as "caused by the US" and referred to Guaido as a far-right politician. Sorry, but you're the one who is misinformed here.
 
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