It was absolutely fucking idiotic to retweet a tweet that says her intention was to be anti-Semitic. WTF, read before retweeting.
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Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC
- Thread starter SaveWeyard
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She should say that using her own words then! Instead of just saying "All about the Benjamins." Like, that's the issue. She could have just said what you're saying here, and that would be fine. But she said "All about the Benjamins" instead, which easily could be read any number of ways.
She got sloppy, and used shorthand that can easily be read as a slurs and attacks, and that's on her. I believe she didn't mean to, but her using that kind of shorthand is still on her, and she needs to do better. Like, as in your post. All you're showing is just how easy this really is! All she has to say is something like what you're saying here! And she messed it up anyway, and that's on her. So there's zero reason not to do better, at all, especially when it's so straightforward and doesn't hurt anyway, or cost anything to do so. I can't think of any reason why not, what's lost by doing so, and to just be cool with this, and to actually lower my standards here. Others might be alright with that, but not me. I'll always ask people to do better in these situations, because I can't think of any reason why not, to not strive to just keep doing better and be the best we can be and just be alright with this or that, as long as we didn't intend it or whatever. Nah, regardless of intent, these should be seen as opportunities for improvement, to do better next time, so regardless of intent, I can't be alrgiht with any take that says to do otherwise.
unfortunately the target is not as helpless as the journalists they're gunning down
It's just sleight of hand. AIPAC only exists to push for pro-Israel policies, so even if it does not directly donate, its membership doing so is effectively the same.
I don't believe AIPAC shouldn't be criticized. I hate AIPAC myself. My belief that is such an argument shouldn't be tweeted or phrased in a joking matter like "All About the Benjamins baby" was used. She's a US Congresswoman and should know that her words do have influence. I agree with her argument, but I think her phrasing was not helpful. Whether intended to be a dog whistle or not is irrelevant because I know for a fact some people online will interpret it in a hateful way.
Which is problematic in its own right. Especially since Israel is hardly the only country made up of a targeted minority group and yet it's the only one where these issues arise.
It's her responsibility to police how she interacts with the public. How far does she want to rise in politics? Governor? Speaker? Tweets like that are going to make that harder than it already was. Optics are your friend when you're a politician. Her re-election in her district could be affected, as well.
Mearsheimer wrote on israel?
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anyways Ill regurgitate the best argument ive heard against israel by a professor of politics and religion
Jews must be given Israel by god right before the rapture, for them to take it by force is not only an affront to god but prolongs our wait for the rapture, according to scripture anyways.
When talking about AIPAC giving money to politicians to influence politics? Sure, that's trickier. Israel in general? No, that's nonsense. If you have trouble criticizing Israel without being accused of antisemitism, you should start questioning where you've been getting your talking points. That's what I was responding to.
Guys you have to be really really careful not to be sloppy or the people who say any criticism of Israel is antisemitic will call your crticism of Israel antisemitic.
Not really, it's just the most obvious. Problematic language applies to discussing all minority groups.
They love Israel but hate the Jews. Total disconnect here. All the Jews need to return to Israel for the Rapture to happen, then the Jews can burn just like all the other heretics. All the hard liner pro-Israeli American Jews know this, it's just politically expedient to ignore ignore it. Fuck those guys. Thankfully most American Jews know better.
She's the same congresswoman who made the absolutely moronic statements about the situation in Venezuela, right? If so, she seriously needs to just stop talking before she puts her foot in her mouth yet again.
I think being more careful is warranted. Situating the (vocalized, at least) Capital Hill consensus on Israel around $$$ is a gross simplification. Yes, AIPAC is powerful, but there are people who have a real affection for Israel, see Israel as a valuable ally, are generally sensitive to possible anti-Senitism, have religious reasons for supporting Israel, etc., etc.
That sort of gross simplification, that sort of reductionism, that sort of severity of interpretation is the stuff of harmful stereotypes. I don't think the Congresswoman intended to evoke any of the relevant stereotypes at all, but the act of minimizing room for complexity and sincerity and diversity in how people feel about Israel evokes them in and of itself.
Now, while we're on the subject of being careful, the people ganging up on Congress' first female Muslim members and painting them as evil anti-Semites can fuck off. Seriously. What they're doing is so much worse than anything these Congresswomen have done, and is a blatant example of how some vulnerable voices have been given more protection than others.
That sort of gross simplification, that sort of reductionism, that sort of severity of interpretation is the stuff of harmful stereotypes. I don't think the Congresswoman intended to evoke any of the relevant stereotypes at all, but the act of minimizing room for complexity and sincerity and diversity in how people feel about Israel evokes them in and of itself.
Now, while we're on the subject of being careful, the people ganging up on Congress' first female Muslim members and painting them as evil anti-Semites can fuck off. Seriously. What they're doing is so much worse than anything these Congresswomen have done, and is a blatant example of how some vulnerable voices have been given more protection than others.
It actually is a problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criti..._Israel_who_have_been_accused_of_antisemitism
I mean we have came to a point where the IRHA's Working Definition of Antisemitism has been heavily criticised for connecting criticism of Israel with anti-semitism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Definition_of_Antisemitism#Criticism
Reposting from USPoliEra
I'm not good at arguing or coming up with arguements, thus why I quit my law internship lmao. I'll just end my ramble on this issue by saying I'm against AIPAC, Israeli policies, the Netanyahu government and let this random tweeter sum up my feelings on Rep. Omar:
I'm not good at arguing or coming up with arguements, thus why I quit my law internship lmao. I'll just end my ramble on this issue by saying I'm against AIPAC, Israeli policies, the Netanyahu government and let this random tweeter sum up my feelings on Rep. Omar:
I think it's what it takes to have fresh politicians who want to bring changes. They're bringing the subject even if many people in the Congress don't want to talk about it. But if she wants her message to resonate with most people she has to be careful. I have the feeling it was an impulsive response, twitter is bad for this. She should stay away from it, and next time try to do it better.
I mean of course, though I think we shouldn't downplay the role organizations like AIPAC have in shaping and spreading these opinions via propaganda that seeks to glorify Israel's good points and sweep a lot of their problematic actions under the rug
A huge oversight of American-centric views on race and ethnicity is that diaspora groups are not the same thing as those living as cultural majorities in the mother country. Being a minority and a majority is contextual based on the society in which you live. Other countries have become more attuned to how the narrative is whites vs the world and are starting to use that as a political shield, casually conflating themselves with related minority groups living abroad. We let it happen because we don't care to recognize the rest of the world isn't the same society we in the west live in.
I also thought "she could've worded it better" until I realized it doesn't really matter. She'd catch fire for it anyway.
Between her and Ocasio-Cortez, Omar has the harder job of attacking the lobby with bipartisan support as well as strong cultural support among most of America, whereas Ocasio-Cortez can easily leverage populist sentiment against the rich, as well as socialist elements in both parties.
Between her and Ocasio-Cortez, Omar has the harder job of attacking the lobby with bipartisan support as well as strong cultural support among most of America, whereas Ocasio-Cortez can easily leverage populist sentiment against the rich, as well as socialist elements in both parties.
I think it's easy to agree that she shouldn't have retweeted the tweet saying her initial tweet had antisemitic intent.
....tweet tweet tweet
Oh the hell with this "you need to do this the right way" thing. Haven't we gone over enough that "the right way" is just empty bullshit meant to placate nobody and help nobody because it's all empty rhetoric so that we can just brush people like Rep Omar aside and continue on with the Apartheid state?
She's a young woman who understands twitter, if people can't clearly delineate the line of "Of course AIPAC uses money to afford themselves massive undue influence" without assuming she's making an antisemitic comment then there is no magical combination of words and tonality that will paint it differently. It's all a bullshit facade to distract from the pro-Israel lobbies fangs that are in everybody. In every other context "Politicians taking money and favors from lobbying groups" is a clear and well understood statement.
Maybe next time they shoot an 8 year old for climbing a fence we'll get this same level of engagement and heated anger at how the IDF are a racist arm of a racist regime.
Probably not.
She's a young woman who understands twitter, if people can't clearly delineate the line of "Of course AIPAC uses money to afford themselves massive undue influence" without assuming she's making an antisemitic comment then there is no magical combination of words and tonality that will paint it differently. It's all a bullshit facade to distract from the pro-Israel lobbies fangs that are in everybody. In every other context "Politicians taking money and favors from lobbying groups" is a clear and well understood statement.
Maybe next time they shoot an 8 year old for climbing a fence we'll get this same level of engagement and heated anger at how the IDF are a racist arm of a racist regime.
Probably not.
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Yes, that was a very poor move. I feel Omar is very impulsive (compared to AOC) on Twitter, she caught some flak for the recent Venezuela hubbub as well. It's not really my place to put her down for this, though, I support her in both cases.
It's far past time America confronts AIPAC, if we need a freshman congresswoman who slams the tweet button a little too fast to make us talk about it, so be it.
I agree with these posts and Sho_Nuff's post as well.
Yeah, feel the same way. It's right that she could have worded her tweets better, and it's also right that even if she did, she would still be deemed anti-semitic.
I'm happy you Americans has gotten both of them in the political scene.
She's been catching bullshit attacks from the GOP off nothingburgers for a while now.
This one actually got Dems to chime in because there was something to the problem this time.
Last I checked, some of the progress made in recent times has revolved around the idea that precision of language can sometimes be an impactful thing, particularly when dealing with things like stereotypes.
Whether or not her critics would be placated, claiming that support for Israel revolves around money is reductionist, that reductionism alone evokes harmful stereotypes, and there are a lot of reasons to avoid doing that.
Plus...it isn't that hard. It just isn't. You're always going to run into bad faith when you criticize Israel, AIPAC, etc., but that doesn't suddenly mean this is a realm of discourse that doesn't warrant a mindful approach.
Meh, where were the Dems chiming in on this?
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-how-netanyahu-became-a-holocaust-revisionist-1.6744462
You have a literal head of state (imagine if this was Trump or Trudeau or Xi) engaging in Holocaust revisionism. Nary a peep. It's transparent as all hell.
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No. I don't know who you've been talking to to get to that conclusion.
She's a politician in the US congress trying to change America from within. Of course how someone says something matters, always has. Politicians are known to be masters of this, but since she's a freshman she's not there yet. AOC, however, is well on her way there, but not everyone can be AOC with that or twitter. No-one is disagreeing that the AIPAC is very powerful, but you can't ignore that power or the cultural sensitivities around Judaism in America without walking into a mine field and she walked into that minefield. In those other contexts she wouldn't have tripped up problematic negative stereotypes, which the crux of this whole discussion.
Of course people care about that, but the difference between your phrasing and her's is that yours wasn't engaging with negative Jewish stereotypes. In the prior paragraph you acknowledged how powerful the AIPAC is, yet you're not connecting that to how the US government is not able to help as much as it should for your example (as much as I'd lie it to be) and the problematic history of antisemitism all over the globe. Omar providing AIPAC with sound bites that make her sound antisemitic isnt going to help Palestine, instead it guarantees they'll have more opportunities to sideline her from the discussion and cleaves left allies from her support because phrasing is a thing.
How widely was this reported in the US press? Them not saying anything is not proof they are complicit, and that's ignoring how powerful AIPAC is. They don't have to agree with AIPAC to keep their heads down because they like having access to money to keep the lights on for their campaigns or the party's infrastructure and Omar's certainly not going to break AIPAC's grip by herself.
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Evidently not a lot, which honestly just goes to show you how much these handwringers actually pay attention to Israel.
My point is, they only care and speak out when it's convenient for them to gang up on someone, and when they have safety in numbers. This is where AIPAC derives its cultural influence; no one wants to break rank for fear of being labeled "anti-semite".
Hey you won't see me disagreeing with this, but at least she said something. More than I can say about our entire government, certain Dem freshmen excluded. So, even if a part of me feels she miss-stepped, I'm obligated to support her regardless. Waiting for someone who "speaks correctly" to come along is doing fuck all for Palestine.
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AIPAC is a lobby. They don't hide they give money. How is it anti semetic to say a lobby gives money. Have any of these cowards answered that? Dark times ahead for America unfortunately..
You realise the Democrats don't control the media, right? I agree the media does a lot to take its eye off Palestine, but be real. There's a lot more cogs to iron out before it'll do that and it's not simply because the Dems want to look away. Don't default to non-action being corrupt, the world isn't always that simple. On the Dem side, anyway.
They don't have safety in numbers, otherwise they'd be doing that already. That's how powerful AIPAC is. They do that suddenly many of them will be replaced and you'll be back to square one. Nothing changes with that strategy. How you're approaching their influence simply increases their power, not decrease it. Going head on against AIPAC is political suicide, so think indirectly.
Which she could have done without dividing the Dems over. AIPAC's antisemism changes have stuck less when it's blatant bullshit rather than handing them over the ammunition yourself. Saying things is not going to help that much, doing something in politics will but that requires not giving politically imploding on national media. The status quo is so fucked up taking them on directly with words is never going to do anything, while speaking correctly keeps politicians like AOC in the game so she has more of a set of doing something behind the scenes or paving groundwork for those who will in the future. If you're going to weaken AIPAC at least do it when it will provide suffice destruction, not self implode and do the work for them. That never gets the right results to destroying opponents.
Man she really hit a nerve of many Israeli govt supporters on both sides. I hope she is not silenced and continues to expose the apartheid govt of Israel and expose the lobbying efforts that both parties support to keep Israel's human-rights violations under wraps
I'm talking about our media's tendency to underreport on things that make Bibi look bad.
I'm was referring to her critics. They're going at her because everyone else is. This "controversy" is a political dogpile.
Given this place's contentious history on matters of Israel, when was the last time you saw this much outspoken pushback against the Israel lobby?
I think we're having the same conversation we usually do where I attribute significance and merit to outspoken social gestures because of their ability to change culture while you're only ever interested in political maneuvering, preferably as far from the spotlight as possible.
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Tut tut she should have worded it better. "I love the Jewish people. Fuck Israel. AIPAC bribes congresspeople with blood money gained from killing innocent Palestinians to suck Netanyahu's syphilitic cock." As long as she write the exact truth then there's no problem, right?
Then why aren't you focused on the media, as they're the ones who will determine the spotlight?
I disagree. Many of her critics agree with her, for example. This is about how she went about this, which in politics is a skill which cna make or break careers.
We're back to the media again. From viewing the reaction this I'd say this site agrees with you all over the political spectrum here, they're just disagreeing over how to find a solution.
Social gestures do matter, but if it's not changing politics what's the point? I'm interested in those subjects for a very good reason, without that this social gesturing does nothing for Palestine or the Democrats. That's why its crucial for them to work together, but how is Omar's self implosion on twitter going to do anything meaningful for the Palestine debate? All it's doing is giving the AIPAC a trophy to put on their wall.
A politician with actual guts, I'm impressed.
Say what you will about how she said it, but the big thing is that she stood up to AIPAC, this is huge, 99% of politicians fear of saying anything that could slightly sort of maybe imply some form of responisibility on Isreal out of fear of that lobby.
Hell, Era's favourite: Kamala Harris is constantly sucking up to her genocidal bff Natenyahu just to kiss up for this lobby.
We should commend this bravery.
No, tone police instead?
Nice Era.
Say what you will about how she said it, but the big thing is that she stood up to AIPAC, this is huge, 99% of politicians fear of saying anything that could slightly sort of maybe imply some form of responisibility on Isreal out of fear of that lobby.
Hell, Era's favourite: Kamala Harris is constantly sucking up to her genocidal bff Natenyahu just to kiss up for this lobby.
We should commend this bravery.
No, tone police instead?
Nice Era.
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User Banned (1 Day): Inflammatory Commentary
Y'all tone policing liberals are part of the reason kids are being killed in Palestine.
It's always the oppressed who are expected to be precise and careful with their words or they are immediately punished. The punishment is immediate. They lose their jobs, their careers, their reputation. There is no second chance:
Marc Lamont fired for using a 'sensitive' phrase to demand equal rights for Palestinians
Steven Salaita fired from his tenured academic position because he tweeted in anger about the Gaza slaughter where the bodies of dead babies were being stored in ice cream freezers because there was no more space. But of course he had to be precise and careful even if he is angry.
Norman Finkelstein who lost his tenure bid because of his support for Palestinian rights
The Texas Speech Pathologist who lost her job because she would not sign an anti-BDS statement.
These are just a few of the many examples of Palestinians and Palestinian supporters being targeted because they gave a voice to the oppressed.
On the other hand, American media, senators, Presidents, congressmen, officials can say any number of terrible shit about Palestinians and nothing will be done.
That's the nature of the world we live in.
Marc Lamont fired for using a 'sensitive' phrase to demand equal rights for Palestinians
Steven Salaita fired from his tenured academic position because he tweeted in anger about the Gaza slaughter where the bodies of dead babies were being stored in ice cream freezers because there was no more space. But of course he had to be precise and careful even if he is angry.
Norman Finkelstein who lost his tenure bid because of his support for Palestinian rights
The Texas Speech Pathologist who lost her job because she would not sign an anti-BDS statement.
These are just a few of the many examples of Palestinians and Palestinian supporters being targeted because they gave a voice to the oppressed.
On the other hand, American media, senators, Presidents, congressmen, officials can say any number of terrible shit about Palestinians and nothing will be done.
That's the nature of the world we live in.
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