Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC

Razgreez · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
The reason this stuck is not because of Kevin McCarthy!

It's because the party that should have been supporting her and should have given her the benefit of the doubt did precisely the opposite and raced with their "opposition" to be the ones to condemn her assumed intentions the most harshly.

I've never seen the democrats and republicans compete so hard at anything, not even an election

Zvonimir Boban · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
Why are you assuming good faith for Kevin McCarthy?
You really think there was a way she could have phrased that criticism that wouldn't have made him Very Upset and Terribly Concerned About Antisemitism?
I don't.

Yeah this dude is probably quite concerned for your well being

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
I care about people on my half of the political axis being upset about this and not making up that they're upset.

I feel like a HUGE part of the missing context here is that Omar had been getting bad faith anti-semitism attacks from the GOP for a month+. One of the Jewish GOP reps had an absolutely absurd accusation/charge of it earlier this month. They were trying to make it stick. It didn't. The reason this stuck is not because of Kevin McCarthy!

I think the main reason why this stuck is because a ton of people in Democratic party and the left in general attacked her for that.

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

Razgreez said:
It's because the party that should have been supporting her and should have given her the benefit of the doubt did precisely the opposite and raced with their "opposition" to be the ones to condemn her assumed intentions the most harshly

You can criticize and support at the same time. This concept is insane to people apparently.

Chikor said:
I think the main reason why this stuck is because a ton of people in Democratic party and the left in general attacked her for that.

Yes, because they perceived a real problem independently of the GOP. That RT was awful enough to make this an understandable position!

Shit like this wasn't sticking despite the GOP's best attempts because there was nothing to it - https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1091180797376282624

Meus Renaissance · Feb 12, 2019

Absolutely shocking stuff from the Democratic Party.

anamika · Feb 12, 2019

Flutter said:

Corey Robin, one of the rare, sensible academicians who often talks about these topics and the freedom of free speech for Palestinians in the US. He stood up for Steven Salaita as well when Salaita was fired because the university was pressured into doing so by big donors threatening to withdraw donations and funding for the Chancellor's pet projects. But of course it's not about the 'Benjamins' and we should never, ever mention the Benjamins because that's anti-semitic...

Deleted member 1589 · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
You can criticize and support at the same time. This concept is insane to people apparently.

and it was obvious that they didn't.

SaveWeyard · Feb 12, 2019

I don't know if this was posted already because I had to step away from the thread for a bit:

Glad he took the time to call out the hypocrisy of the media in their lack of coverage on McCarthy.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
You can criticize and support at the same time. This concept is insane to people apparently.

Sure, but I think you mostly amplify bad faith attacks on her, even though it's not your intent.
I don't know what to tell you, I don't think it was racist and I'm honestly surprised to hear that anyone thought that this was. Some people in this thread danced around it, but I haven't heard like a proper explanation of what they think is going on here.

If the concern is that some people might wrongfully think she's racist, I would ask who are those people, because I kinda think people who are receptive to such arguments probably already think she's racist, you know, because she's a muslim and doesn't like Israel's policies.

Zvonimir Boban · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
You can criticize and support at the same time. This concept is insane to people apparently.

What Pelosi and co. should have done is talked to Omar behind closed doors and let her know exactly why what she said could be construed as anti-Semitic and why it could make Jewish people uncomfortable while publicly telling the Republicans who have been shamelessly stirring anti-semitic sentiment for years to go fuck themselves for their hypocrisy.

But that's not what they did, instead they fell over each other in their hurry to throw her under the bus and it is pretty disgusting to see such cowardice.

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
Sure, but I think you mostly amplify bad faith attacks on her, even though it's not your intent.
I don't know what to tell you, I don't think it was racist and I'm honestly surprised to hear that anyone thought that this was. Some people in this thread danced around it, but I haven't heard like a proper explanation of what they think is going on here.

If the concern is that some people might wrongfully think she's racist, I would ask who are those people, because I kinda think people who are receptive to such arguments probably already think she's racist, you know, because she's a muslim and doesn't like Israel's policies.

I strongly disagree that it's amplifying them when you don't care about those in the first place.

Zvonimir Boban said:
What Pelosi and co. should have done is talked to Omar behind closed doors and let her know exactly why what she said could be construed as anti-Semitic while publicly telling the Republicans who have been shamelessly stirring anti-semitic sentiment for years to go fuck themselves for their hypocrisy.

But that's not what they did, instead they fell over each other in their hurry to throw her under the bus and it is pretty disgusting to see such cowardice.

Politics is a public profession. You cannot simply "talk to someone in private", tell everyone it's ok and to just trust them on it. The Dem's statement is for their own membership, not the GOP.

Razgreez · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
You can criticize and support at the same time. This concept is insane to people apparently.

There's a clear difference between criticism and condemnation. Omar's statement was immediately assumed in the worst possible light and condemned in the harshest possible way, outside of sacking, by her own party. She was not asked to clarify anything. She was given a public dressing down. Let's not pretend public condemnation is the same thing as criticism. You keep attempting to divert attention towards an obscure deleted retweet yet her own base doesn't even care about it. Her own tweets, by their assessment, were bad enough to deserve a public dressing down.

Furthermore israel is a formalised apartheid state. Criticism of such a state, for example, is not strong enough. Any failure to condemn apartheid israel's actions is an act of support of it and thereby support for apartheid. Anybody who supports israel knowlwingly and willfully supports apartheid. That is the cold hard truth.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Zvonimir Boban said:
What Pelosi and co. should have done is talked to Omar behind closed doors and let her know exactly why what she said could be construed as anti-Semitic and why it could make Jewish people uncomfortable while publicly telling the Republicans who have been shamelessly stirring anti-semitic sentiment for years to go fuck themselves for their hypocrisy.

But that's not what they did, instead they fell over each other in their hurry to throw her under the bus and it is pretty disgusting to see such cowardice.

No but for real, what is the actual advise that they're gonna tell her?
Never use "it's all about the Benjamins, baby" ever? or just not when talking about anything that might relate to Jewish people?
I'm Jewish and I'm fucking confused by all of that shit.
Also, I give ya'll permission to say that.

anamika · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
You can criticize and support at the same time. This concept is insane to people apparently.

Yes, because they perceived a real problem independently of the GOP. That RT was awful enough to make this an understandable position!

Shit like this wasn't sticking despite the GOP's best attempts because there was nothing to it - https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1091180797376282624

There was no real problem. It's only a problem if the usual pro-Israel crowd makes it one. We all know what she was talking about. Deliberately misinterpreting it or turning her into an anti-semite and imposing false aspersions on her and what she said is disingenuous but to be expected from people who don't want the pro-Palestinian crowd to talk about the actual issues - Like AIPAC lobbying.

Kill3r7 · Feb 12, 2019

Zvonimir Boban said:
What Pelosi and co. should have done is talked to Omar behind closed doors and let her know exactly why what she said could be construed as anti-Semitic and why it could make Jewish people uncomfortable while publicly telling the Republicans who have been shamelessly stirring anti-semitic sentiment for years to go fuck themselves for their hypocrisy.

But that's not what they did, instead they fell over each other in their hurry to throw her under the bus and it is pretty disgusting to see such cowardice.

It depends on what the donors want because the in-house approach only works if the parties you are trying to appease are okay with that. Also, apart from all the big picture stuff this was a good opportunity politically for the old guard to show "new" members who runs the show.

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
No but for real, what is the actual advise that they're gonna tell her?
Never use "it's all about the Benjamins, baby" ever? or just not when talking about anything that might relate to Jewish people?
I'm Jewish and I'm fucking confused by all of that shit.
Also, I give ya'll permission to say that.

"This is the second time you've run into this issue on twitter and you need to make sure it doesn't happen again."

If the problem is her being sloppy on twitter, not tweeting stuff on the subject flippantly on her phone probably fixes the issue going forward!

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
"This is the second time you've run into this issue on twitter and you need to make sure it doesn't happen again."

If the problem is her being sloppy on twitter, not tweeting stuff on the subject flippantly on her phone probably fixes the issue going forward!

But what was sloppy here?
For real, I don't get it.
Are you saying she should never use the phrase "it's all about the Benjamins" when talking about an issue that concern Jews?
Because again, that sounds fucking insane to me.
Like, if last week you were talking with your friends about Sheldon Adelson and how he has a lot of pull at the GOP, and someone would have said "it's all about the Benajamins, baby" you would have thought, fuck dude, watch what you're saying, that's a bad look?
I mean, English is not my first language so maybe I miss some context, but that's a phrase that I heard being used quite often, and I never seen or even heard anyone treat it as problematic, let alone antisemitic.

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
But what was sloppy here?
For real, I don't get it.
Are you saying she should never use the phrase "it's all about the Benjamins" when talking about an issue that concern Jews?
Because again, that sounds fucking insane to me.
Like, if last week you were talking with your friends about Sheldon Adelson and how he has a lot of pull at the GOP, and someone would have said "it's all about the Benajamins, baby" you would have thought, fuck dude, watch what you're saying, that's a bad look?
I mean, English is not my first language so maybe I miss some context, but that's a phrase that I heard being used quite often, and I never seen or even heard anyone treat it as problematic, let alone antisemitic.

Saying "It's all about the Benjamin's" when you don't make it explicitly clear you mean "It's all about the Benjamin's for AIPAC"is bad because it's open to interpretation otherwise. Don't leave the subject blank! It's not the specific reference, it's that you could interpret that as meaning "Jewish people only care about money." That alone probably wouldn't have been enough, but the RT that appeared to mock someone voicing their displeasure was bad. It got un-RTed but you can't unwind people seeing that happen. The RT is either absurdly sloppy or incredibly cruel.

Zvonimir Boban · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
I strongly disagree that it's amplifying them when you don't care about those in the first place.

Politics is a public profession. You cannot simply "talk to someone in private", tell everyone it's ok and to just trust them on it. The Dem's statement is for their own membership, not the GOP.

Yes and what did the Dem's statement tell their membership if not reaffirm that they care about Israel more than they do about the influence of groups lobbying for foreign interests and certainly more than they care about Ilhan Omar?

Chikor said:
No but for real, what is the actual advise that they're gonna tell her?
Never use "it's all about the Benjamins, baby" ever? or just not when talking about anything that might relate to Jewish people?
I'm Jewish and I'm fucking confused by all of that shit.
Also, I give ya'll permission to say that.

"Listen, Omar dear, if you're going to talk about Pro-Israeli lobbying then you better follow any tweet with another two or three tweets containing a bunch of caveats explaining and clarifying how you don't mean to offend because you better believe that there will be a lot of people coming after you any time you criticise Israel. You know, apart from all the people that are always coming after you because you're Muslim. And the folks that are coming at you for being a woman. And all those folk that hate you because you're black."

Chikor said:
But what was sloppy here?
For real, I don't get it.
Are you saying she should never use the phrase "it's all about the Benjamins" when talking about an issue that concern Jews?
Because again, that sounds fucking insane to me.
Like, if last week you were talking with your friends about Sheldon Adelson and how he has a lot of pull at the GOP, and someone would have said "it's all about the Benajamins, baby" you would have thought, fuck dude, watch what you're saying, that's a bad look?
I mean, English is not my first language so maybe I miss some context, but that's a phrase that I heard being used quite often, and I never seen or even heard anyone treat it as problematic, let alone antisemitic.

They're being intellectually dishonest by using her criticism of lobbyists using money to buy influence and equating that to her repeating the conspiracy about Jewish people secretly controlling the global economy, government, media etc.

Nobody would have cared if she had said the same thing about the NRA but because it's about a group that lobbies on behalf of Israel people are attacking her in bad faith by equating Israel with all Jews which, if you think about it, is kind of anti-Semitic because it implies that Jewish people around the globe have dual loyalties.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
Saying "It's all about the Benjamin's" when you don't make it explicitly clear you mean "It's all about the Benjamin's for AIPAC"is bad because it's open to interpretation otherwise. Don't leave the subject blank! It's not the specific reference, it's that you could interpret that as meaning "Jewish people only care about money." That alone probably wouldn't have been enough, but the RT that appeared to mock someone voicing their displeasure was bad. It got un-RTed but you can't unwind people seeing that happen.

I think this is a really weird bar.
Again, do you think a good faith read of her tweet could arrive at the conclusion that she's antisemitic?
I don't.

I'm not sure I even understand the specific problem here, is what your'e saying that any time you talk about money in an issue that relates to Jewish people you must clarify that it's #NotAllJews or is the issue specific to the song this is quoted from?

Royalan · Feb 12, 2019

SaveWeyard said:
White Jews shit on AIPAC and use language like this all the time and no one gives a fuck. If a Black Jew says it? Attacked relentlessly.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely jump at the opportunity to point out racial double standards.

But this...this dog don't hunt.

You can't simultaneously argue that anybody who dares criticize Israel and/or AIPAC gets labeled an anti-Semite, AND that this is only a story because Omar is a Black Muslim and any white guy doing this would have gotten off scot-free.

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
I think this is a really weird bar.
Again, do you think a good faith read of her tweet could arrive at the conclusion that she's antisemitic?
I don't.

I'm not sure I even understand the specific problem here, is what your'e saying that any time you talk about money in an issue that relates to Jewish people you must clarify that it's #NotAllJews or is the issue specific to the song this is quoted from?

Alone, no. With the RT? Yes. It's why it matters.

The former, especially if you have a history with a problematic statement on the topic. ( the 2012 tweet.)

Zvonimir Boban · Feb 12, 2019

Kill3r7 said:
It depends on what the donors want because the in-house approach only works if the parties you are trying to appease are okay with that. Also, apart from all the big picture stuff this was a good opportunity politically for the old guard to show "new" members who runs the show.

The only funny thing about this whole shit show has been the fact that the old guard just showed everybody that Omar was right.

Ichthyosaurus · Feb 12, 2019

Helio said:
Again, the left is doing something about it, you just don't agree with it

I don't agree with it because it's stupidly pointless as the entire plan to hurt AIPAC, even your own people have lost hope in the activist left because they can't get their shit together.

The Dude Abides said:
Fix what? The Israeli occupation? That isn't going to happen. Continuing it is in Israel's interests and the US isn't going to give up having an ally, albeit a dodgy one, in that area. Certainly not out of concern for human rights or other abstract notions. But at least the leftists have the freedom to be honest about what the situation actually is instead of mouthing empty pieties about self-determination and both sides blah blah blah.

He's so lost he can't contemplate going after AIPAC indirectly, or trying new methods to break the AIPAC's influence because the only method of attack the activist left does is protest. They should take a cue from AOC and diversify their methods to get shit done.

Zvonimir Boban said:
The only funny thing about this whole shit show has been the fact that the old guard just showed everybody that Omar was right.

If you think the leadership thinks the real reason Omar screwed up is because she was attacking AIPAC, rather than how she did it, you have failed at understanding how the party functions.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
Alone, no. With the RT? Yes. It's why it matters.

I don't understand what you mean by "with the RT", I really don't.
Do you think that she should have said -
"it's all about the benjamins baby, and to be clear, I'm not talking about all the Jews, I'm talking about AIPAC giving money to Kevin McCarthy"?
I donno man, it seem like we're focusing a whole lot of energy on exactly how she should have responded to a racist attack by Kevin McCarthy.
I mean, this whole shit started because he said what she and Talib said was worse than King's white supremacy stuff and that he's gonna "take action" against them.
The fuck do we need to walk on eggshells around that motherfucker?
Well, we don't, but Ilham Omar do, and we all fucking know why.

Kirblar said:
The former, especially if you have a history with a problematic statement on the topic. ( the 2012 tweet.)

Hold up, why are we bringing 2012 tweets?
Do you think she's antisemite?
I don't mean to interrogate you or anything, I just think that if you think that she is, that's a bit more important question that we need to discuss first.

SaveWeyard · Feb 12, 2019

Royalan said:
You can't simultaneously argue that anybody who dares criticize Israel and/or AIPAC gets labeled an anti-Semite, AND that this is only a story because Omar is a Black Muslim and any white guy doing this would have gotten off scot-free.

I don't really get where you got the first part. I definitely think some people can get away with accurately describing pro-Israel lobbying with this same type of language because I've seen it happen. My point was that Black people, even within the Jewish community, get disproportionately attacked for statements that go unchallenged for their white counterparts, and Black and Muslim women especially are prone to being falsely labelled anti-Semites.

Laughing Banana · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
I think this is a really weird bar.
Again, do you think a good faith read of her tweet could arrive at the conclusion that she's antisemitic?
I don't.

I'm not sure I even understand the specific problem here, is what your'e saying that any time you talk about money in an issue that relates to Jewish people you must clarify that it's #NotAllJews or is the issue specific to the song this is quoted from?

Apparently the WHOLE issue, the ultimate lynchpin of the entire event of why the left politicians also attacked her, is the fact that she retweeted a tweet accusing her of being an anti semite by using the term "benjamins".

Of course said tweet is dishonest and disingenuous as fuck, but the issue is not that, the ISSUE is that she retweeted it, making it as if she's making fun and/or acknowledging the anti-semite accusations.

Even though apparently she deleted it and clarified an hour afterwards? Still not enough, I guess.

Zach85 · Feb 12, 2019

YamchasRevenge said:
No. I agree with her point, in fact The problem is she stupidly uses "All About the Benjamins" to describe why AIPAC have power. Even though she likely isn't antisemitic, how can you not ignore the antisemitic dogwhistle?

Remember when Andrew Gillum told DeSantis "you may not be racist, but the racists think you're racist" because DeSantis said Florida shouldn't 'monkey this up'? That's a hurtful stereotype that has been used throughout history to kill. Another stereotype that has been used throughout history to kill is the equation of Jews=money=influence=power. Tweeting "All About the Benjamins" is fucking reinforcing that historic stereotype. It doesn't help.

Counterpoint: if she saying this is a hurtful stereotype being reinforced than what do you consider the actions of AIPAC?

It's a shame people are so concerned about appearing racist children dying in the worlds open air prison takes a back seat to perceived anti semetic rhetoric (which btw is not what this is no matter how sloppy you consider it)

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
I don't understand what you mean by "with the RT", I really don't.
Do you think that she should have said -
"it's all about the benjamins baby, and to be clear, I'm not talking about all the Jews, I'm talking about AIPAC giving money to Kevin McCarthy"?
I donno man, it seem like we're focusing a whole lot of energy on exactly how she should have responded to a racist attack by Kevin McCarthy.
I mean, this whole shit started because he said what she and Talib said was worse than King's white supremacy stuff and that he's gonna "take action" against them.
The fuck do we need to walk on eggshells around that motherfucker?
Well, we don't, but Ilham Omar do, and we all fucking know why.

Hold up, why are we bringing 2012 tweets?
Do you think she's antisemite?
I don't mean to interrogate you or anything, I just think that if you think that she is, that's a bit more important question that we need to discuss first.

Retweeting this after her original tweet (and before the AIPAC! one four hours later is what I'm talking about. https://media.discordapp.net/attach.../IMG_20190210_213010.jpg?width=557&height=676 It's either horrifically sloppy (she didn't read that last sentence) or very cruel (deliberately mocking someone who's upset), depending on your interpretation of her motives, both of which are problems that would need to be addressed.

No, I'm not saying she is one, I'm saying that it's going to cause people to view further statements with suspicion despite the apology.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Laughing Banana said:
Apparently the WHOLE issue, the ultimate lynchpin of the entire event of why the left politicians also attacked her, is the fact that she retweeted a tweet accusing her of being an anti semite by using the term "benjamins".

Of course said tweet is dishonest and disingenuous as fuck, but the issue is not that, the ISSUE is that she retweeted it, making it as if she's making fun and/or acknowledging the anti-semite accusations.

Even though apparently she deleted it and clarified an hour afterwards? Still not enough, I guess.

I'm gonna be honest here, I'm not versed enough in twitter etiquette to be 100% sure of how it comes across, but is the argument is that people thought she was doing a Walter White you got me.gif or that she should have been more visibly upset about being accused of being an antisemite?
Again, this whole thing feels like a giant distraction from the real issue here which is that Kevin McCarthy is a racist piece of shit.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
No, I'm not saying she is one, I'm saying that it's going to cause people to view further statements with suspicion despite the apology.

But what exactly was that RT suppose to make people think?
That this dude exposed her for the racist that she is so she might as well come clean with an RT?

anamika · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
Retweeting this after her original tweet (and before the AIPAC! one four hours later is what I'm talking about. https://media.discordapp.net/attach.../IMG_20190210_213010.jpg?width=557&height=676 It's either horrifically sloppy or very cruel, depending on your interpretation of her motives, both of which are problems that would need to be addressed.

No, I'm not saying she is one, I'm saying that it's going to cause people to view further statements with suspicion despite the apology.

Why are you bothered what other people are going to think. If you don't think she is anti-semitic then the people who do are clearly being disingenuous and intellectually dishonest and deliberately making her anti-semitic by casting aspersions on her that's not true.

Those who think she's anti-semitic are going to do so anyway no matter how she phrases her sentences or what she tweets. That's the point of the anti-Palestinian lobby that crushes any kind of dissent. Omar talked about the influence of AIPAC and money? Quick crush any discussion of this real thing that's happening by calling her anti-semitic.

And people like you are more bothered about this then the actual lobbying that AIPAC does to introduce bills that take away rights from people fighting against oppression.

Deleted member 1589 · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
But what exactly was that RT suppose to make people think?
That this dude exposed her for the racist that she is so she might as well come clean with an RT?

Because it's not a good look, and well

Laughing Banana · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
I'm gonna be honest here, I'm not versed enough in twitter etiquette to be 100% sure of how it comes across, but is the argument is that people thought she was doing a Walter White you got me.gif or that she should have been more visibly upset about being accused of being an antisemite?
Again, this whole thing feels like a giant distraction from the real issue here which is that Kevin McCarthy is a racist piece of shit.

She retweeted this:

Which may came across of her making fun of being called an anti-semite. Apparently this is the big reason why the left are also attacking her.

For the record I thought the above tweet was stupid as fuck.

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

anamika said:
Why are you bothered what other people are going to think. If you don't think she is anti-semitic then the people who do are clearly being disingenuous and intellectually dishonest and deliberately making her anti-semitic by casting aspersions on her that's not true.

Those who think she's anti-semitic are going to do so anyway no matter how she phrases her sentences or what she tweets. That's the point of the anti-Palestinian lobby that crushes any kind of dissent. Omar talked about the influence of AIPAC and money? Quick crush any discussion of this real thing that's happening by calling her anti-semitic.

And people like you are more bothered about this then the actual lobbying that AIPAC does to introduce bills that take away rights from people fighting against oppression.

Because Jewish Dems are part of my coalition, not Kevin McCarthy, and if one of her fellow freshman reps and other people on my side of the aisle are upset who don't participate in McCarthy's bullshit, I'm going to believe them.

Ichthyosaurus · Feb 12, 2019

Flutter said:
Because it's not a good look, and well

Also known as "optics? what are they?"

Deleted member 1589 · Feb 12, 2019

Laughing Banana said:
She retweeted this:

Which may came across of her making fun of being called an anti-semite. Apparently this is the big reason why the left are also attacking her.

For the record I thought the above tweet was stupid as fuck.

It really was. She was completely condemned.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Laughing Banana said:
She retweeted this:

Which may came across of her making fun of being called an anti-semite. Apparently this is the big reason why the left are also attacking her.

For the record I thought the above tweet was stupid as fuck.

But that's a completely ludicrous line of attack.
I really don't think it's terribly important she respond to such stupid attack with respect.
I got accused of being an antisemite on this board before and I laughed it off because I thought it was amazingly stupid.

And listen, if people want to give her twitter lessons that's one thing, but that's not what happened here, she was racked by a ton of people on left for that, and not only do I don't think she deserved it, it served as a perfect distraction from the fact that Kevin McCarthy want to punish her and Talib for not supporting Israel enough.

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
But that's a completely ludicrous line of attack.
I really don't think it's terribly important she respond to such stupid attack with respect.
I got accused of being an antisemite on this board before and I laughed it off because I thought it was amazingly stupid.

And listen, if people want to give her twitter lessons that's one thing, but that's not what happened here, she was racked by a ton of people on left for that, and not only do I don't think she deserved it, it served as a perfect distraction from the fact that Kevin McCarthy want to punish her and Talib for not supporting Israel enough.

It's important she respond when it's coming from multiple people on her own side of the aisle that she's going to need to work with in the future and who are going to need to be able to trust her. I got accused of "Queersplaining." It was funny! But you can do that if you're part of the group and have a pretty strong innate defense shield unless you go full Diamond and Silk.

The point for leadership is- she clearly needs twitter lessons, and the public "this was bad and wasn't ok please do better" statement is part of that.

Laughing Banana · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
But that's a completely ludicrous line of attack.
I really don't think it's terribly important she respond to such stupid attack with respect.
I got accused of being an antisemite on this board before and I laughed it off because I thought it was amazingly stupid.

And listen, if people want to give her twitter lessons that's one thing, but that's not what happened here, she was racked by a ton of people on left for that, and not only do I don't think she deserved it, it served as a perfect distraction from the fact that Kevin McCarthy want to punish her and Talib for not supporting Israel enough.

Oh believe me, considering the long history of deference towards AIPAC by both conservatives and the so-called "progressive" left, I also don't think that most people who attacked her are actually that interested in doing so just because they want to give her a Twitter lesson, that's a very charitable interpretation of why so many people, even those who are supposed to be on her side, also attacked her.

She ruffled a sensitive sssshhh-we don't-talk-about-it subject, and that's why she's attacked so relentlessly.

anamika · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
Because Jewish Dems are part of my coalition, not Kevin McCarthy, and if one of her fellow freshman reps and other people on my side of the aisle are upset who don't participate in McCarthy's bullshit, I'm going to believe them.

Then maybe people like you should explain to your Jewish Dem colleagues that Omar is not anti-semitic and there are more important matters at hand like the lobbying influence AIPAC has on the American government to push the policies of the Israeli government.

Or maybe they don't care about AIPAC and Palestinian rights and are on a witch hunt for Omar because she is the lone muslim voice who is starting to speak up for the oppressed and the powerful don't like it when a light is shined on institutions like AIPAC and their role in what is being done to the Palestinians.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
It's important she respond when it's coming from multiple people on her own side of the aisle that she's going to need to work with in the future and who are going to need to be able to trust her. I got accused of "Queersplaining." It was funny! But you can do that if you're part of the group and have a pretty strong innate defense shield unless you go full Diamond and Silk.

The point for leadership is- she clearly needs twitter lessons, and the public "this was bad and wasn't ok please do better" statement is part of that.

Which people?
I haven't seen criticism that seemed like a substantial good faith criticism of what she did.
I did see a whole lot of Democrats taking turns of showing just how much they really really love Israel by punching left, which is something that they do all the fucking time.

But maybe I missed something, which of the criticisms she got from her side do you think have merit?
I will take a look.

anamika · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
The point for leadership is- she clearly needs twitter lessons, and the public "this was bad and wasn't ok please do better" statement is part of that.

She's doing just fine. She does not 'Twitter lessons' about anything.

It's not the oppressed who have to be careful about tone and are required to police themselves. When one speaks truth to power, it is sometimes not civil and that's how it should be. There's a whole thing about 'disrupting civility' when it comes to fighting for equal rights.

People are not going to give you rights if you ask for it nicely and politely. I want Omar to be as rude and uncivil as possible. Ruffle feathers. Keep talking and bring up AIPAC, the amount of influence this lobby group has on American politicians and why it has this much power to control and influence the American government on behalf of a foreign government.

There has to be equal investigation into Israeli interference like there is on Russian interference. Follow the trail and see where it leads to.

Kirblar · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
Which people?
I haven't seen criticism that seemed like a substantial good faith criticism of what she did.
I did see a whole lot of Democrats taking turns of showing just how much they really really love Israel by punching left, which is something that they do all the fucking time.

But maybe I missed something, which of the criticisms she got from her side do you think have merit?
I will take a look.

Here's Max Rose's statement on her twitter activity. https://twitter.com/MaxRose4NY/status/1094783506323042304 He's the guy who flipped Staten Island in NY, he's one of her fellow freshman in the House.
Here's his acceptance of her apology (and you should REALLY watch the video.) https://twitter.com/BoKnowsNews/status/1095070962746302466

anamika said:
She's doing just fine. She does not 'Twitter lessons' about anything.

It's not the oppressed who have to be careful about tone and are required to police themselves. When one speaks truth to power, it is sometimes not civil and that's how it should be. There's a whole thing about 'disrupting civility' when it comes to fighting for equal rights.

People are not going to give you rights if you ask for it nicely and politely. I want Omar to be as rude and uncivil as possible. Ruffle feathers. Keep talking and bring up AIPAC.

Accidentally sideswiping a minority group in the USA is not "speaking truth to power."

SaveWeyard · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
Which people?
I haven't seen criticism that seemed like a substantial good faith criticism of what she did.
I did see a whole lot of Democrats taking turns of showing just how much they really really love Israel by punching left, which is something that they do all the fucking time.

But maybe I missed something, which of the criticisms she got from her side do you think have merit?
I will take a look.

The closest you could possibly get is Max Rose, but as I posted above he's already said we need to move on and focus instead on the hypocrisy of the amount of attention this is getting versus McCarthy.

Deleted member 1589 · Feb 12, 2019

Eh, screw Max Rose. One of the Dems that's completely behind Israel no matter what.

Ichthyosaurus · Feb 12, 2019

Chikor said:
I did see a whole lot of Democrats taking turns of showing just how much they really really love Israel by punching left, which is something that they do all the fucking time.

That's what coalitions do, they argue with each other. No side is immune from criticism. It's not like the left has held back on the centrists or liberals in this thread, have they?

anamika said:
There has to be equal investigation into Israeli interference like there is on Russian interference. Follow the trail and see where it leads to.

That'd be fine with me, but Omar becoming a martyr won't make this happen. I don't know what will.

Chikor · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
Here's Max Rose's statement on her twitter activity. https://twitter.com/MaxRose4NY/status/1094783506323042304 He's the guy who flipped Staten Island in NY, he's one of her fellow freshman in the House.
Here's his acceptance of her apology (and you should REALLY watch the video.) https://twitter.com/BoKnowsNews/status/1095070962746302466

Accidentally sideswiping a minority group in the USA is not "speaking truth to power."

"implying that Americans support Israel because of money alone is offensive enough".
This reads to me like "you can't say that Kevin McCarthy supports Israel because AIPAC pay him".
Am I reading this wrong?
Because if not, not only am I not agreeing with this, I really really struggle to see this is as a good faith critique of her.
Help me out here.

I'm still confused about why that RT is offensive by the way, but we can tackle this one issue at a time.

anamika · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
Accidentally sideswiping a minority group in the USA is not "speaking truth to power."

She was talking about AIPAC!!! AIPAC!

Deliberately twisting that into 'sideswiping a minority group' is disingenuously covering up the role of AIPAC by making this whole discussion about how she is anti-semitic. Which is pretty much what pro-Israel folks love to do.

So yes, she was speaking truth to power. Unfortunately, the powerful are very powerful indeed and she got eaten up by her own party and the so called liberals.

anamika · Feb 12, 2019

Kirblar said:
It's important she respond when it's coming from multiple people on her own side of the aisle that she's going to need to work with in the future and who are going to need to be able to trust her. I got accused of "Queersplaining." It was funny! But you can do that if you're part of the group and have a pretty strong innate defense shield unless you go full Diamond and Silk.

The point for leadership is- she clearly needs twitter lessons, and the public "this was bad and wasn't ok please do better" statement is part of that.

Someone had already linked to Corey before, but in case you missed it, this is for you:

https://twitter.com/CoreyRobin/stat...iframe/2/twitter.min.html#1095148049331032064

Congresswoman Omar ignites new anti-Semitism controversy with comments on AIPAC

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I can say DEI; you can't.

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