Conservatives of ERA?

[TI92]

Just curious if we have any people who consider themselves conservative fiscally, socially or both and are willing to answer questions.

Namely, how do the tax policies proposed in states like Kansas work? It seems to have bankrupted the state yet I have seen conservative pundits pushing for the same tax system Nationwide.

How does being anti-abortion gel well with a party supposedly based on individual liberty?

What would it take for you to support universal healthcare? Clearly there is an issue in this country, where people are dying from very treatable illnesses. Isnt the point of society to work together for the betterment of all?

Thanks again, if no one is interested that's fine too. I know it can be hard being the only one of a different mindset.

 

[Rowlf]

Keep this thread civil on both sides of the discussion. Disagreement is fine, but respond to the post, not the poster. If you feel a user's post is somehow inappropriate or violates the terms of service, use the report button.

 

[Deleted member 11501]

This is aimed at American Conservatives I'm guessing, I recently interviewed UK conservative voters and Brixit leave voters. I won't mind sharing some insight in that respect of you want.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

I would consider myself conservative fiscally however not within the stigmatized box that exists in the US today.

Cutting taxes isn't fiscally conservative at all in actuality. It is never smart to reduce your intake of revenue. The only exception being incredibly dire circumstances like post WW2 Europe or something.

The overwhelming reason why we have budget issue is lack of oversight, waste, fraud, and abuse both in the public and private sector. No bid bloated contracts to people/companies who can't do the job efficiently. Hundreds of people working on something that could be automated. Etc.

The main reason why UHC is a pipe dream here is because the healthcare industry is rife with overcharging, unnecessary procedures,exploitation, etc . I used the example on the old site of my co-worker who was billed 1.3 million dollars for the birth and care of his pre-maturely born daughter. In no universe does it actually cost 300k a month to take care of something that weighs 2 pounds.

 

[Deleted member 8197]

This is aimed at American Conservatives I'm guessing, I recently interviewed UK conservative voters and Brixit leave voters. I won't mind sharing some insight in that respect of you want.

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It always fascinates me that working class people vote Conservative - if you have anything in that regard I'd be interested in hearing it.

Not to come across all liberal-metropolitan-elite but voting for Brexit I can largely understand, voting for the party who are going to stare dispassionately at you while metaphorically cutting your throat through reductions in benefits and public spending, less so.

 

[Ensirius]

I just hope we can have civil conversation when it comes to Politics on this site.
When the arguments on both sides are solid there is no reason not to.

 

[Yoshi]

In no universe does it actually cost 300k a month to take care of something that weighs 2 pounds.

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Weeell, if it is 2 punds of atomic waste...

What you have to pay for a child depends, in a lot of countries, on your personal financial situation and does not directly correspond to the money actually required to do so, the idea being that if you were to take care of the child of part of your family, you would spend a lot more for it. This way you discourage persons leaving their families for financial and personal gain, which is a problem that can affect predominantly women who then end up in very bad positions if they e.g. gave up their jobs to care for the children.

EDIT: I totally misunderstood the posting, sorry. Yes, it is unreasonable that the insurance company can demand this amount of money. The easiest solution would be a left-leaning one by the way: Universal, tax-payed health care. No opt out, not alternatives.

 

[Trouble]

I would consider myself conservative fiscally however not within the stigmatized box that exists in the US today.

Cutting taxes isn't fiscally conservative at all in actuality. It is never smart to reduce your intake of revenue. The only exception being incredibly dire circumstances like post WW2 Europe or something.

The overwhelming reason why we have budget issue is lack of oversight, waste, fraud, and abuse both in the public and private sector. No bid bloated contracts to people/companies who can't do the job efficiently. Hundreds of people working on something that could be automated. Etc.

The main reason why UHC is a pipe dream here is because the healthcare industry is rife with overcharging, unnecessary procedures,exploitation, etc . I used the example on the old site of my co-worker who was billed 1.3 million dollars for the birth and care of his pre-maturely born daughter. In no universe does it actually cost 300k a month to take care of something that weighs 2 pounds.

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I'm more or less the same. I consider myself a pro-government spending, pro-UHC, pro-GMI fiscal conservative.

I'm super socially liberal though. I'm way too lazy to give a shit what other people do with their lives. That shit is exhausting.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

guYoshi the no opt out thing makes sense but it doesn't do us in the US much good without fixing the current cost structure or else the tax on universal health care will be like 99% of income

 

[Crocks]

I would consider myself conservative fiscally however not within the stigmatized box that exists in the US today.

Cutting taxes isn't fiscally conservative at all in actuality. It is never smart to reduce your intake of revenue. The only exception being incredibly dire circumstances like post WW2 Europe or something.

The overwhelming reason why we have budget issue is lack of oversight, waste, fraud, and abuse both in the public and private sector. No bid bloated contracts to people/companies who can't do the job efficiently. Hundreds of people working on something that could be automated. Etc.

The main reason why UHC is a pipe dream here is because the healthcare industry is rife with overcharging, unnecessary procedures,exploitation, etc . I used the example on the old site of my co-worker who was billed 1.3 million dollars for the birth and care of his pre-maturely born daughter. In no universe does it actually cost 300k a month to take care of something that weighs 2 pounds.

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I think a lot of the problem, though, is that the way the insurance industry works in the US - by which I mean the lack of actual market but yet with lots and lots of "customers" - means that the market forces that typically drive down prices in other markets simply don't exist. There's very little competition and when your insurer only supports certain hospitals etc then you don't have a proper, competitive market. The Libertarians say that there are ways to force the market to be competitive freely but personally - as someone who is generally in favour of less rather than more government intervention in many areas - think this is for the birds. The way the problem you describe is got around in most countries is that by the government actually owning and operating, or at least paying for, most of the hospitals, they can basically force the price down by being the only (or at least overwhelmingly the largest) buyer in a market. In the UK, for example, the NHS buys in such large quantities (medical equipment, drugs etc) that they can get an excellent price for them, because if they take their business elsewhere then it's got a huge, potentially existential effect on the company that loses their business. In the US this effect would be even greater, so large is the population. Of course this doesn't help when there's only a single supplier of something (like a breakthrough new drug) but even then some things can be done to bring the cost down.

Edit: Which is my way of saying that the government paying for everyone's insurance won't work, but the government actively operating or paying directly for the running of hospitals will.

 

[Papias]

I'm an American conservative, though my defense of conservatism is mainly aimed at social policies. I lean toward a fiscal conservatism as well, but I'm not as well-read on it and so I won't pretend to know how to defend it.

 

[ClickyCal']

I honestly don't feasibly get how someone can be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. They contradict completely. If you want equality for everyone socially, then wanting republican economic policies, and things along the lines of cutting budgets of important things for minorities, SS, etc goes against that. I'm legitimately asking because I just don't get it.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Fiscal conservative here

 

[srhltmr]

I was conservative leaning until Trump. Not any more.

If this is who they want to be associated with them I'm not interested.

 

[Deleted member 18179]

I'm an American conservative, though my defense of conservatism is mainly aimed at social policies. I lean toward a fiscal conservatism as well, but I'm not as well-read on it and so I won't pretend to know how to defend it.

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Can you expand on this a bit? What would you say is a conservative social policy?

 

[Stone Cold]

I honestly don't feasibly get how someone can be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. They contradict completely. If you want equality for everyone socially, then wanting republican economic policies, and things along the lines of cutting budgets of important things for minorities, SS, etc goes against that.

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I think you can want social and economic equality while also being against overspending through government programs to try and fix those problems.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

This is aimed at American Conservatives I'm guessing, I recently interviewed UK conservative voters and Brixit leave voters. I won't mind sharing some insight in that respect of you want.

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Is that a South African who voted for Leave?

 

[Hollywood Duo]

I honestly don't feasibly get how someone can be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. They contradict completely. If you want equality for everyone socially, then wanting republican economic policies, and things along the lines of cutting budgets of important things for minorities, SS, etc goes against that.

Click to shrink...

Fiscal conservatism predates the current mess of a republican party. It's core philosophy is prudence in government spending and debt. I see that as totally in line with social liberalism. If you cut 400 billion a year off the military budget and reduce waste in many other sectors you have a huge treasure chest to carry out tons of socially progressive legislation.

 

[Buttchin-n-Bones]

I honestly don't feasibly get how someone can be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. They contradict completely. If you want equality for everyone socially, then wanting republican economic policies, and things along the lines of cutting budgets of important things for minorities, SS, etc goes against that. I'm legitimately asking because I just don't get it.

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Libertarianism fits this criteria, doesn't it?

 

[witty_mittie3]

I'm in a weird point, where I am a social liberal...but lean conservative on a few things like wanting a balanced budget and Second Amendment rights.

 

[ClickyCal']

I think you can want social and economic equality while also being against overspending through government programs to try and fix those problems.

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The majority of Republicans want to go beyond just controlling over spending though, especially ones like Paul Ryan that would outright cut SS, medicare, etc immediately if it was possible

 

[Yoshi]

guYoshi the no opt out thing makes sense but it doesn't do us in the US much good without fixing the current cost structure or else the tax on universal health care will be like 99% of income

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Yes, the US system is broken, my proposal was: The state offers free health care, paid for by taxes, paid for by a new non-optional health tax. If taxes for specific purposes are not allowed, do not name it health tax.

 

[Chittagong]

The American conservative classification seems quite different from the European one. I am certainly in the conservative camp over here, but I believe in women's right for abortion, and want people to have universal healthcare (as in, the NHS model, not the ridiculous USA model that is insanely expensive and only works to let corporates bleed the government).

 

[Yoshi]

The American conservative classification seems quite different from the European one. I am certainly in the conservative camp over here, but I believe in women's right for abortion, and want people to have universal healthcare (as in, the NHS model, not the ridiculous USA model that is insanely expensive and only works to let corporates bleed the government).

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Where in the world are conservatives for abortion rights?

 

[Crocks]

I honestly don't feasibly get how someone can be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. They contradict completely. If you want equality for everyone socially, then wanting republican economic policies, and things along the lines of cutting budgets of important things for minorities, SS, etc goes against that. I'm legitimately asking because I just don't get it.

Click to shrink...

It's not so weird, because the two sides of the coin have almost totally inverse causes. Or, to put it another way, "less government intervention" means "liberal" the social arena (legalisation of gay marriage, legalisation of abortion etc) and yet "more government intervention" means "liberal" in the economic one, where it typically means expanding people's rights through programmes and money. It's the age old fight between positive and negative freedoms. But if your political philosophy stems around being generally wary of government intervention, like a libertarian, then it's only natural that the same wariness you have in the government involving itself in what happens in your bedroom extends to being wary of the government involving itself in your business or bank account.

 

[Papias]

Can you expand on this a bit? What would you say is a conservative social policy?

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Pro-life, anti-embryonic stem cell research, anti-euthanasia, strong proponent of free-speech, and other traditionally conservative positions. I don't always hold the party line (I'm a registered Republican); I lean toward the legalization of drugs (though this isn't a settled position for me; I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise).

 

[Crocks]

Where in the world are conservatives for abortion rights?

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Uh, I'll give you one guess...

The American conservative classification seems quite different from the European one. I am certainly in the conservative camp over here, but I believe in women's right for abortion, and want people to have universal healthcare (as in, the NHS model, not the ridiculous USA model that is insanely expensive and only works to let corporates bleed the government).

Click to shrink...

 

[Iorv3th]

Just curious if we have any people who consider themselves conservative fiscally, socially or both and are willing to answer questions.

Namely, how do the tax policies proposed in states like Kansas work? It seems to have bankrupted the state yet I have seen conservative pundits pushing for the same tax system Nationwide.

How does being anti-abortion gel well with a party supposedly based on individual liberty?

What would it take for you to support universal healthcare? Clearly there is an issue in this country, where people are dying from very treatable illnesses. Isnt the point of society to work together for the betterment of all?

Thanks again, if no one is interested that's fine too. I know it can be hard being the only one of a different mindset.

Click to shrink...

I grew up in a conservative area and still lean conservative but I don't buy into the whole thing. I also see a lot of 'conservatives' that are really just repeating stuff they hear on the news/radio and aren't really all that conservative at all when it comes to voting for tax increases etc.

I am not sure what's going on in Kansas. I do like how Texas (where I live) has no Income Tax. There is a property tax and it's going to vary from county to county and school district to school district.

How would being anti-abortion not gel with individual liberty? Most conservatives view the baby/fetus as an individual and that life starts at conception. It doesn't clash at all.

Healthcare is a weird one. I want more government oversight. I really kind of would like price ceilings to be in place. Our healthcare system is flawed.

 

[Flo_Evans]

About the only thing I side with conservatives is the 2nd amendment. Lately though that is getting hard to justify. Has anyone even made a gun owner thread here?

 

[Kaseoki]

It always fascinates me that working class people vote Conservative - if you have anything in that regard I'd be interested in hearing it.

Not to come across all liberal-metropolitan-elite but voting for Brexit I can largely understand, voting for the party who are going to stare dispassionately at you while metaphorically cutting your throat through reductions in benefits and public spending, less so.

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I was actually reading up about this phenomenon just a few weeks ago in class. You can find an academic paper concerning this issue here: http://www.jstor.org/stable/588640?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

In short, working class tories are an anomaly, but there a few characteristics which propels them to vote Conservative. One is that they acknowledge that a class system exists and that they prefer a socially superior political leadership, hence their unconditional support for the royal family, even though logically they eat into the tax system. They also believe that the political elite will eventual benefit the working class a la Margaret Thatcher's trickle down economics. And most importantly, that the Conservatives will always be more patriotic than the opposition.

 

[Yoshi]

Uh, I'll give you one guess...

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I'm a European myself, German, here, the conservatives are not in favour of abortion rights. It's not like in the US where it is a big fight, but generally, conservative politicians argue against abortion rights here.

 

[Stone Cold]

Pro-life, anti-embryonic stem cell research, anti-euthanasia, strong proponent of free-speech, and other traditionally conservative positions. I don't always hold the party line (I'm a registered Republican); I lean toward the legalization of drugs (though this isn't a settled position for me; I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise).

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I think legalization of weed only doesn't make sense if you're also against the legality of alcohol.

 

[Deleted member 14002]

This is aimed at American Conservatives I'm guessing, I recently interviewed UK conservative voters and Brixit leave voters. I won't mind sharing some insight in that respect of you want.

Click to shrink...

I would love to hear your results, please.

 

[ShimshonNehorai]

I'm very liberal in the US sense. But in the Israeli sense, I have positions that are both center left and center right.

It's weird how right and left mean different things in different places.

 

[FantaSoda]

I am definitely not conservative but I know a lot of conservatives due to living in the south. Most of them are decent people who live in small bubbles in hopeless towns that prevent them from getting the exposure to develop a different perspective. Sometimes it is challenging to be their friend, because they so desperately want to believe what they want to believe. Some of them I am absolutely not their friend, because they are so far gone that there isn't any hope of ever finding any common ground with them.

However, I always try hard maintain my friendships with rational conservatives because a friendship with a democrat is like a potential avenue to actually get that perspective to challenge their viewpoints. They are much more likely to consider the words of a friend rather than an enemy. It often really sucks, because I often find myself in the very unenviable position of defending liberal viewpoints to conservatives and conservatives to liberals.

 

[Deleted member 9486]

It always fascinates me that working class people vote Conservative - if you have anything in that regard I'd be interested in hearing it.

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In the US it's just a combination of factors. The working class is more likely to be conservative on social issues like abortion, religion, gun rights and vote on those more than fiscal policy. They're strong believers in the American Dream and that comes with a lot of individualism and belief in working hard to get your break and get ahead and a lot of stigma about receiving help from the government. On the later the right has done a lot to perpetuate stereotypes about people on government assistance being "white trash" in trailer parks in rural areas and minority "welfare queens" in urban areas.

Basically people are just angry enough about culture war issues to not realize, or not care, about voting against their own financial interests and unaware of how much they are manipulated by candidates, PACs etc. To be fair, there's lots of manipulation in politics on both sides, this thread is just about conservatives.

 

[Crocks]

I'm a European myself, German, here, the conservatives are not in favour of abortion rights. It's not like in the US where it is a big fight, but generally, conservative politicians argue against abortion rights here.

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Perhaps, but in how many places have laws been signed recently that have made getting abortions harder? I'm sure it happens somewhere, especially in the more religious countries, but generally speaking it seems like a battle that was won a long time ago and everyone's just moved on. In the UK, for example, (and I think that's where the poster I quoted is actually from) doesn't have any significant parties that want to roll back abortion at all. Headlines were made when one MP who isn't even a minister said that he was personally against abortion but didn't seek to change the law - that's how out of step with the political consensus abortion is. It just seems like no one's that bothered here.

 

[Downhome]

Anyone that knows me from the other side knows that I am a conservative. I never made it a secret, but I always knew better than to comment too terribly often elsewhere.

Pro-life, anti-embryonic stem cell research, anti-euthanasia, strong proponent of free-speech, and other traditionally conservative positions. I don't always hold the party line (I'm a registered Republican); I lean toward the legalization of drugs (though this isn't a settled position for me; I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise).

Click to shrink...

You sound a great deal like me. I'm the only conservative in my family, including my wife, that believes that pot should just be legalized flat out - medical, recreational, whatever. I take heat even for that sometimes.

I don't want to get into any sort of in depth discussion or anything, not even here with it being a new start. I just wanted to, once again, let everyone know that it isn't like there aren't any conservatives or even middle of the road folks around. Heck, I even received death threats at the other side just for saying the basic stuff that I mentioned above.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Fiscally sure, socially not particularly.

I don't know if free speech is conservative or liberal these days, but put me down on the in favour side, even shitty offensive speech should be allowed. I don't have to personally agree with everything anyone ever says or not be offended by it.

 

[FantaSoda]

Basically people are just angry enough about culture war issues to not realize, or not care, about voting against their own financial interests and unaware of how much they are manipulated by candidates, PACs etc. To be fair, there's lots of manipulation in politics on both sides, this thread is just about conservatives.

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This is exactly what I see. They have no idea how much they are being manipulated. They were literally raised from birth to trust the news, and in the south that is Fox News. They don't hang out on messege-boards and get exposure to different viewpoints. Now we are in the super dangerous era of "Fake News". For me, I have gained a lot of ground actually challenging how their political viewpoints actually clash with the religious fundamentals of Christianity.

When they start complaining about "welfare culture" or "handouts", I like to point out that capitalism won't exist in heaven. When they get uppity about abortion issues, I remind them "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and that it is ultimately God's role to judge.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

I honestly don't feasibly get how someone can be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. They contradict completely.

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Wanting low spending to keep taxes low, or wanting high taxes to pay for lots of programs sounds fairly distinct from the various things you might lump into the divide between "social liberal" or "social conservative."

The Political Compass quiz and others like it use multiple axes. That one divides fiscal / economics issues by "left and right" and social issues by "libertarian and authoritarian."

Basically, it's a spectrum. Whenever you have a republic or democracy with two fairly static and dominant parties, it may start to look binary, but it really isn't.

 

[Iorv3th]

Anyone that knows me from the other side knows that I am a conservative. I never made it a secret, but I always knew better than to comment too terribly often elsewhere.



You sound a great deal like me. I'm the only conservative in my family, including my wife, that believes that pot should just be legalized flat out - medical, recreational, whatever. I take heat even for that sometimes.

I don't want to get into any sort of in depth discussion or anything, not even here with it being a new start. I just wanted to, once again, let everyone know that it isn't like there aren't any conservatives or even middle of the road folks around. Heck, I even received death threats at the other side just for saying the basic stuff that I mentioned above.

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I know a few that think it should be, including myself my wife and dad.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I would consider myself conservative fiscally however not within the stigmatized box that exists in the US today.

Cutting taxes isn't fiscally conservative at all in actuality. It is never smart to reduce your intake of revenue. The only exception being incredibly dire circumstances like post WW2 Europe or something.

The overwhelming reason why we have budget issue is lack of oversight, waste, fraud, and abuse both in the public and private sector. No bid bloated contracts to people/companies who can't do the job efficiently. Hundreds of people working on something that could be automated. Etc.

The main reason why UHC is a pipe dream here is because the healthcare industry is rife with overcharging, unnecessary procedures,exploitation, etc . I used the example on the old site of my co-worker who was billed 1.3 million dollars for the birth and care of his pre-maturely born daughter. In no universe does it actually cost 300k a month to take care of something that weighs 2 pounds.

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Yeah there's truth in this. Fiscally conservative doesn't really mean what it should. It should mean "fiscally responsible/accountable," but it's come to just mean "kneecap your revenue, don't spend money on essential services like healthcare and education."

The waste in government spending is absurd.

 

[dramazen]

How would being anti-abortion not gel with individual liberty? Most conservatives view the baby/fetus as an individual and that life starts at conception. It doesn't clash at all.

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Because it is anti-choice. The anti-choice position hobbles women's personal and financial liberty because other people's conservative beliefs.

 

[Vinci]

I was conservative leaning until Trump. Not any more.

If this is who they want to be associated with them I'm not interested.

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I truly believe what we are seeing post-Trump is not conservatism; it's regressivism, an attempt to turn back the clock in a number of unrealistic and harmful ways. So you don't have to be concerned with what you believe as it relates to Trump or his supporters.

 

[BossAttack]

I would consider myself conservative fiscally however not within the stigmatized box that exists in the US today.

Cutting taxes isn't fiscally conservative at all in actuality. It is never smart to reduce your intake of revenue. The only exception being incredibly dire circumstances like post WW2 Europe or something.

The overwhelming reason why we have budget issue is lack of oversight, waste, fraud, and abuse both in the public and private sector. No bid bloated contracts to people/companies who can't do the job efficiently. Hundreds of people working on something that could be automated. Etc.

The main reason why UHC is a pipe dream here is because the healthcare industry is rife with overcharging, unnecessary procedures,exploitation, etc . I used the example on the old site of my co-worker who was billed 1.3 million dollars for the birth and care of his pre-maturely born daughter. In no universe does it actually cost 300k a month to take care of something that weighs 2 pounds.

Click to shrink...

Add the cost of the education and training of an average doctor in the United States.
Add the cost of the education and training of the average nurse in the United States.
Add the cost of researching and developing new medical technology and procedures.
Add the cost of the medical technology and pharmaceuticals used to take care of said new-born.
Add the cost of 24/7 hospital staff used to monitor and take care of new-born baby.
Add the cost of overhead building costs and administrative fees.

You get the point. You're just seeing thing from the front-end cost of things, such as the drugs used or little staff that looks over the new-born. You aren't taken into account all the background costs that even allows those things to happen.

 

[Empyrean Cocytus]

I'm more or less the same. I consider myself a pro-government spending, pro-UHC, pro-GMI fiscal conservative.

I'm super socially liberal though. I'm way too lazy to give a shit what other people do with their lives. That shit is exhausting.

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That's kind of where I am, though I think the government can find a lot of ways to cut spending on themselves that would lead to more than enough money to provide UHC, Standardized Income, etc.

 

[Sinneslöschen]

Because it is anti-choice. The anti-choice position hobbles women's personal and financial liberty because other people's conservative beliefs.

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No matter what there is going to be a conflict if you believe two individuals are relying on the same body. How do you respect the rights of the woman without restricting the rights of the baby and vice versa? At some point you have to make a choice.

 

[Vinci]

For what it's worth, I absolutely agree with Hollywood Duo: So long as the government does not put into place price ceilings on medical treatment and pharmaceuticals, healthcare will always be problematic. Talking about insurance without going down the path of attacking the costs that insurance hits against is at best a half measure.

 

[corn93]

Add the cost of the education and training of an average doctor in the United States.
Add the cost of the education and training of the average nurse in the United States.
Add the cost of researching and developing new medical technology and procedures.
Add the cost of the medical technology and pharmaceuticals used to take care of said new-born.
Add the cost of 24/7 hospital staff used to monitor and take care of new-born baby.
Add the cost of overhead building costs and administrative fees.

You get the point. You're just seeing thing from the front-end cost of things, such as the drugs used or little staff that looks over the new-born. You aren't taken into account all the background costs that even allows those things to happen.

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That doesn't seem to explain why the cost is so much lower outside of the US, even in highly developed nations with better outcomes (US does not have the lowest infant mortality rates).