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Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,274
Original thread title "That one time Nintendo whitewashed Zelda and no one said anything (critics/publication wise)"
Was originally going to do a thread over that, but as I did more research. The problem is not exclusive to windwaker, a good chunk of the zeldas are pale as a full moon even though their father is basically black. Doing more research from there lead me to see a trend of racism, colorism, and stereotyping throughout Nintendo's games.

Spoilers for most zelda games.


Ah wind waker, what a fun little game. It was doing so well until the end and then it slaps the negro off zelda like a chinese laundry detergent commercial. It's a double shame because it was giving us one of the least useless zeldas. Then not so diet racism attacks. Unsurprisingly I don't think any review ever mentions this nor did a publication cover it at the time.

For those unfamiliar, Wind Waker has a character named Tetra who you go on quests with throughout the game. Eventually it's revealed that she's actually princess zelda and changes outfits. For some reason during this, her dark skin vanishes.
tumblr_m2wd5pvzRB1qdrpdr.jpg


Now, I know what dumbass and/or racist replies you may come up to justify this and I'd recommend not bothering:
  • "That's just a tan because she's a pirate and is outside all day"
    • Besides a complete failure at the understanding of biology (as no one that pale would have the melanin to get that dark), this argument doesn't work because of how dark her father is. Who you know is a king and thus spends all of his time inside.
    • latest
      • I know what you're about to say here "but skittles, that's not her dad. He's just a ghost. True but as i'll demonstrate, nearly every single appearance of the king throughout zelda games has him with dark skin. So there's no reason to assume anything different here, especially with how dark Tetra is.
  • "she was just dirt-"
    • Starting up with the racism quick I see
  • "it was magic"
    • Ah yes, the classical anti-negro magic hyrule is known for. Targets melanin exclusively
Dumb arguments aside, at the end of the encounter with ganon. She literally goes back to being the same skin tone as before when they leave the castle. Maybe the anti-negro magic wasn't a joke. Proving that yes, that is her actual skin tone and nintendo is on their bullshit like with most of their games (more on that later)

Now, you might be thinking that this is only zelda game where this happens. But you'd be wrong, let's look at minish cap

Here's the princess in this game for reference
Who-are-The-Minish-Caps-Zelda-and-Ezlo.png


Now, let's look at what the king looks like in game (no official art exists for him)
hqdefault.jpg


Hmmm, unsurprisingly dark af. In fact, he looks pretty much exactly the same as the king from wind waker. And look, it even provides a reference to what a previous king looked like too.

gustaf.png


Who surprise surprise, is equally dark skinned and dressed the same. Yet zelda, could not be any paler. And there's not even an excuse you could come up for this one. Her ass is inside most of the time.

You would be wrong again to think that the newest zelda is any different. Let's look at breath of the wild's princess.
265px-BotW_Zelda_Artwork.png

(this zelda has the slightest tan in game but that may actually be due to the game's lighting than actual tanning. It doesn't really matter anyway, not dark enough to mean anything)

Now, let's once again look at her father for the game
latest

Woah, super dark skinned this time (surprising at this point, I know). Though this time (instead of zelda), the king loses a noticeable amount of melanin when "transforming".

latest

Oh man, what in the fuck is going on here. This shit is almost more baffling than what happened in wind waker. How do you lose like 4 shades of melanin taking off a fucking cloak? Besides that bullshit, why is zelda so pale again when her father could not be blacker in this? This reeks of trying to have your cake and eat it too. They wanted diversity but couldn't actually commit due to someone's racist ass views.


Nintendo hasn't gotten any better since these games released either. A good chunk of their games still suffer from heavy colorism. We still got bullshit like this happening (spoilers for hyrule warriors i guess and slightly NSFW)



400px-HW_Lana.png

I'm evil so now I have dark skin
279px-HW_Cia.png

The smash games have this problem in droves where dark skin=evil

dark link/young link
Dof0r5GU8AAb7VK.jpg


kwtzlduywf411.jpg


(in general there's also ganondork being dark=bad)

We also have a plethora of offensive/racist stereotypes in smash ultimate (first one removed on release)

images


images


h46efKSl.jpg



This whitewashing has been fairly consistent along with colorism and offensive stereotypes throughout their games. To the point that nintendo is consistently the most racist publisher and I expect some bullshit to be present in each of their releases. There's no excuse for it either, nintendo is an international level publisher whose failing to understand the basics of how not to offend different cultures. If Sony can do this no problem, there's no reason Nintendo shouldn't be able to either.

I mean, is it really so hard not to do things like this
hqdefault.jpg

or this
hqdefault.jpg


no it's fucking not

(then we have other suspect things like mario with the sombrero or twintelle being a hyper sexualized black women who uses her hair as a weapon)


And hell, this is without me getting into all the sexist shit they do in general. Or some of the racist stuff that happens in their shows (like the one time Ash did blackface to blend in with the monkey pokemon)
 
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AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
I mean the Dark Pit color palettes in Smash Ultimate part is reaaaaally reaching (I'd say it's even a non-issue) but I'll leave the rest for others to discuss.

EDIT: I missed the part where you included Mario with a Sombrero and Twintelle amongst your other problematic issues. What exactly is wrong with Twintelle other than she is attractive? And as a Mexican myself I can't tell you Mario in a poncho and sombrero not only was it super okay but it was also adorable! Also the king of Hyrule was never black. He looks like he has a tan.
 
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Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
twintelle being a hyper sexualized black women who uses her hair as a weapon
Alright there's a lot to take in here but please forgive my ignorance what exactly is the problem here?

Also Cia turns good in the end and maintains her dark skin.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I mean the Dark Pit color palettes in Smash Ultimate part is reaaaaally reaching (I'd say it's a non issue) but I'll leave the rest for others to discuss. You make quite the argument.
Dark Pit's color palette in Ultimate is a reference to Magnus, a dusky-skinned character from Uprising and an ally of Pit's.

While there's valid criticism to be made in some cases, some of these examples are reaching like Stretch Armstrong. (Twintelle is 'hypersexualized'? Really?)
 
OP
OP
Skittles

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,274
I mean the Dark Pit color palettes in Smash Ultimate part is reaaaaally reaching (I'd say it's even a non-issue) but I'll leave the rest for others to discuss. You made good arguments.
Itd be fine if it wasnt exclusive to dark pit, but it becomes suspect when he's supposed to be evil. Plus with the context of everything else.
There is not going to be and could not possibly be any productive discussion in this thread.
Maybe, but it still needs to be talked about.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
You have a lot more work ahead of you to support your claim that the king of Hyrule is "basically black" since every single one of those pictures looks like an old white guy. Especially since, as Hyrule in Zelda is based on Western Europe, a black king wouldn't really fit the source material.
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
30,995
Um Japanese people can tan pretty dark. Pretty sure the idea with Tetra is she spent her entire life exposed to the elements every day on the sea, and that her princess form would be more sheltered and less exposed to the elements without protection
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
I always figured Tetra was just tanned from living on the sea for years. Her mother is white with red hair in the painting in her cabin.

Dark Link, is a literal shadow. Smash's handling of it doesn't really change that. Dark Link was created from his shadow.
 

Vesper

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,672
OP check on your shoulder, you may have dislocated it with some of those reaches. Dark Link racist? Fucking really? LMAO
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
The Wind Waker one, hurts me the most. It was so jarring when i first played the game.

Yeah. Nintendo is always so backwards with this.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,215
Greater Vancouver
Dark Pit's color palette in Ultimate is a reference to Magnus, a dusky-skinned character from Uprising and an ally of Pit's.

While there's valid criticism to be made in some cases, some of these examples are reaching like Stretch Armstrong. (Twintelle is 'hypersexualized'? Really?)
As if she wasn't modeled to be #thicc with a fuckton of posts of people fawning over her ass wasn't obvious enough?
 

HeroR

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
7,450
You don't know the proper definition of whitewashing and 'white' people can be tan. Darker skin doesn't automatically mean 'black'.
 

Spinky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,112
London
Evil (or evil-looking) versions of their characters having darker skin has been a thing in Japanese games for the longest time. Probably won't stop anytime soon because I doubt they even realise they're doing it. I mean...

latest


350


Jesus Christ.
 

Error_404

Member
Nov 12, 2017
518
Itd be fine if it wasnt exclusive to dark pit, but it becomes suspect when he's supposed to be evil. Plus with the context of everything else
But Dark Pit isn't evil, he's more interested in is own goals. but he saves Pit's ass multiple times

Edit: The dark Link skins obviously aren't supposed to represent any race, but evil mirror versions of Link that are sometimes fought throughout the series
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Let me reiterate from my last post that I've yet to see a single Mexican anywhere complaining about Mario wearing a sombrero and poncho in odyssey. The only ppl I've seen complaining about this being cultural appropriation or some other crap are Americans. I've seen nothing but love and appreciation from Mexicans when we saw that Mario. We love seeing others embracing our culture as long as it's not making fun of it which of course it isn't the case with Odyssey.

Twintelle is awesome btw.
 
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Normal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,296
Black people aren't the only ones with dark skin you know?
There are dark Europeans, South Asians, Hispanics, Middle Eastern just to name a few that can have dark skin lol
 

IzzyRX

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,816
That evil = dark skin has to stop.
It's 2019, being japanese it's not a excuse anymore.
 

Saikar

Member
Nov 3, 2017
334
I think Zelda has this whole *thing* where Link and Zelda are the reincarnations of actual people and so they have to look sort of like them. I don't think that adds too much to the canon, especially when looking at what it takes away. I'd love a girl Link, or a darker Link, or a darker Zelda, or whatever. Not purely because of inclusiveness current trends, but because I think it could let them tell different types of stories. There's really nothing to GAIN from this limitation at this point. Arguably never was.
 

ASaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
I'm glad someone made a thread to talk about that moment in Wind Waker. Like, it's really bad. Completely inscrutable and indefensible. And nevermind the fact that when Tetra "transforms" she also suddenly loses all of her agency as a strong female protagonist, and becomes a literal object sat in a spot until the end of the game!

It's a particular shame because Wind Waker is otherwise one of the greatest ever Zeldas. It was my favorite Zelda of all time until BotW along. People still talk about it to this day. But I don't see people talking about this part nearly enough.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,238
Let me reiterate from my last post that I've yet to see a single Mexican anywhere complaining about Mario wearing a sombrero and poncho in odyssey. The only sople I've seen complaining about cultural appropriation or some other crap are Americans. I've seen nothing but love and appreciation from Mexicans when we saw that Mario. We love seeing others embracing our culture as long as it's not making fun of it which of course it isn't the case with Odyssey.

Twintelle is awesome btw.
Yep. Everything about Soltitlán/Tostarena is amazing.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Ok, maybe I'm blind but Minish Cap King looks incredibly white to me so I'm not seeing it there.
 

Future Gazer

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,273
I always assumed Tetra was supposed to have a tan. It was just highly exaggerated due to the art style.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
Japan is know for this. Another example in Smash, that isn't directly Nintendo's fault, but it still perpetuates dark skin = Evil is violent Ken.

Nintendo needs better representation for people of color, as well as women. Look at the Smash roster, it's pathetic for this.
 
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