Now obviously, she was going along with some of it but the initial power dynamics are already screwed. She can't attend without his charity, her ability to move around once there is dependent on him and her reliance on him makes it difficult for her to say no.
Leaving someone stranded is a bad move and going into something with expectations of sex is just wrong.... but this power dynamics thing you mention is exactly the reason you shouldn't let someone who is not really close to you (or your employer paying for a business trip) pay your trip and stay.
With that said - punishing someone for changing their mind about sex is just a dick move. Still, I'm not a fan of her decision making process either.
Fair enough. If his side wasn't heard at all I'm not sure that's right before handing out a lifetime ban with no appeal on GDQ's side (the woman is obviously not at fault for speaking out). But needless to say it doesn't really matter because the guy just revealed himself as a piece of shit, so he deserves it either wayPeople like you keep being up his "right" to kick her out as if anybody is trying to make the case that this was illegal or something.
Yes, he had the "right" to kick her out. So fucking what? Just because you have the "right" to do something, that doesn't mean it isn't morally reprehensible.
Stop focusing so much on legality. Oh, and also stop criticising women for daring to speak out whilst you're at it. If he didn't deserve to get banned for life over this, the actual people with the power to do that (which was not this woman) would not have done so.
Yeah, re-reading it definitely fits that more.I'd say that's even somewhat of a stretch to suggest a FWB. I honestly think she seemed to be capitulating because she was afraid of upsetting him and ruining the opportunity. Shameful that she felt forced into that position.
BoTh SiDeS aRe WrOnGLeaving someone stranded is a bad move and going into something with expectations of sex is just wrong.... but this power dynamics thing you mention is exactly the reason you shouldn't let someone who is not really close to you (or your employer paying for a business trip) pay your trip and stay.
With that said - punishing someone for changing their mind about sex is just a dick move. Still, I'm not a fan of her decision making process either.
Maybe I didn't word it correctly, but I completely agree with everything you just wrote :)The conversation was actually very bad.
You have to keep in mind the wider context.
The entire situation began with him offering her no strings plane tickets and accomodation to an event she is obviously not capable of attending on her own means. They don't seem to be anything but passing acquaintances (maybe not even that) prior to this convo.
So either this guy is incredibly generous or he has ulterior motives.
The way events have unfolded would suggest that he had ulterior motives. The convo he posted absolutely indicates that he wanted to get laid. He kept escalating the situation from, let's share a room until he ended up in "hey how do you feel about bondage territory".
Now obviously, she was going along with some of it but the initial power dynamics are already screwed. She can't attend without his charity, her ability to move around once there is dependent on him and her reliance on him makes it difficult for her to say no.
I don't honestly believe he was doing this as part of some malicious plan. If he did, he wouldn't have posted the chat logs showing how skeezy his actions are. The sad truth is, he just doesn't recognise that what he does is wrong. The same goes for loads of other people who are rushing to defend him.
The fact remains however, that this guy was manipulating a woman into a situation to encourage her to have sex, when she backed out he threw her out of the room and threatened to strand her miles from home.
All of this is bad. Don't excuse the conversation because it gives ammo to the "well she was into over DMs" crowd. If anything the conversation is the most damning part. We don't know what happened in the room but his intentions are laid bare in those messages.
I mean the guy is not coming off well at all, but if he is the one paying for her room he can decide at any moment to stop doing so.
ok yeah. as soon as she mentions the possibility of DTF he starts grooming her that way IMMEDIATELY. Jesus christ.
He cancelled the ticked long after she presumably said no. I don't imagine he threatened her on the spot, at least.
Scumbag behavior to post it online, but I wouldn't call it sexual harrasment for that reason. Still not sure what the guy did though, op was very confusing.
He deleted some of the screenshots. It got so far in that converstation that he convinced her to sex.
Which she declined at the hotel (that plus the cuddleing and sleeping in one bed) so he threw her out of the hotel room and threatened to cancel her plane ticket back home
Kicking someone out of a hotel room because they wont sleep with you is literally sexual harassment. There is no other interpretation.
And it doesn't matter if she initiated everything. The moment she said no that was it. And he reacted by kicking her out of a shared hotel room.
"Not a dead name to me."If you needed any more evidence that this guy is a piece of shit here he is deliberately dead naming a trans person:
Maybe I didn't word it correctly, but I completely agree with everything you just wrote :)
I get your point but I don't see things in such a black/white manner. If I meet a girl and she agrees to come to my appartment for sex and then decides she doesn't want to after all, am I obligated to let her stay?. Obviously the polite thing to do would be to offer her to stay in separate rooms or I can sleep in the couch or w/e but am I sexually harassing her if I ask her to leave?
I understand the dynamics on my example are different, but to which extent are you responsible for another adult in a situation like this? Again, not saying the guy is not an asshole. This could've been resolved in any other number of ways, but like I said above, being an asshole is not the same as sexual harassment. They are on completely different levels.
I get your point but I don't see things in such a black/white manner. If I meet a girl and she agrees to come to my appartment for sex and then decides she doesn't want to after all, am I obligated to let her stay?. Obviously the polite thing to do would be to offer her to stay in separate rooms or I can sleep in the couch or w/e but am I sexually harassing her if I ask her to leave?
I understand the dynamics on my example are different, but to which extent are you responsible for another adult in a situation like this? Again, not saying the guy is not an asshole. This could've been resolved in any other number of ways, but like I said above, being an asshole is not the same as sexual harassment. They are on completely different levels.
The situation you've made up here and what has actually happened are not comparable.I get your point but I don't see things in such a black/white manner. If I meet a girl and she agrees to come to my appartment for sex and then decides she doesn't want to after all, am I obligated to let her stay?. Obviously the polite thing to do would be to offer her to stay in separate rooms or I can sleep in the couch or w/e but am I sexually harassing her if I ask her to leave?
I understand the dynamics on my example are different, but to which extent are you responsible for another adult in a situation like this? Again, not saying the guy is not an asshole. This could've been resolved in any other number of ways, but like I said above, being an asshole is not the same as sexual harassment. They are on completely different levels.
I'm not sure lumping everyone together is a very productive way to approach the problem.
I'm not sure lumping everyone together is a very productive way to approach the problem.
I dont see how your quoted message lumps people together.I'm not sure lumping everyone together is a very productive way to approach the problem.
If you needed any more evidence that this guy is a piece of shit here he is deliberately dead naming a trans person:
I'm also confused about the service dog who is apparently too hyper to travel.
Very different situations. She had already flown to a new city and was basically stuck. He essentially gave her an ultimatum of "sleep with me or on the street." In your hypothetical, the girl could conceivably go to her own home. But, like, if you had driven her to your place and kicked her out for not sleeping with you, leaving her to walk home alone at night? Yeah, that'd be really really shitty.
The two situations aren't equivalent. The girl in your hypothetical is coming over to have sex, not to sleep over.
The girl in this situation was flying to another city to attend AGDQ. She was not flying to have sex with this guy, even if they discussed it after the initial gift of a ticket and room.
The situation you've made up here and what has actually happened are not comparable.
Very different situations. She had already flown to a new city and was basically stuck. He essentially gave her an ultimatum of "sleep with me or on the street." In your hypothetical, the girl could conceivably go to her own home. But, like, if you had driven her to your place and kicked her out for not sleeping with you, leaving her to walk home alone at night? Yeah, that'd be really really shitty.
Kicking someone out of a hotel room because they wont sleep with you is literally sexual harassment. There is no other interpretation.
He basically blackmailing her with "either sleep with me or sleep on the street" is more than enough grounds for sexual harassment, what's your point?100% agree, its shitty. But is it sexual harassment? What are we discussing here? Look, I understand. This is not a good situation, I'm not defending what the guy did and I'd like to think we would've all handled it differently but sexual harassment is a serious allegation. Being a turd and sexually harassing someone is not the same thing.
Why not just say 'entitled asshole' (or something to that effect)? I don't really see how the rest of the label is at all relevant.They didn't say typical white male gamer, they said "typical entitled white male gamer".
The entitled white male gamer is a definite type of person, and they all sound this way.
"Fellow female", ugh.If you needed any more evidence that this guy is a piece of shit here he is deliberately dead naming a trans person:
Yikes. This piece of trash doesn't deserve any kind of defense.If you needed any more evidence that this guy is a piece of shit here he is deliberately dead naming a trans person:
100% agree, its shitty. But is it sexual harassment? What are we discussing here? Look, I understand. This is not a good situation, I'm not defending what the guy did and I'd like to think we would've all handled it differently but sexual harassment is a serious allegation. Being a turd and sexually harassing someone is not the same thing. I understand the court of public opinion is swift and merciless but just 2 weeks ago in my country a kid commited suicide because a girlfriend (as in a female friend) of his falsely (this was proven) accused him of raping her on instagram. That put things into perspective for me. I'm not so quick to burn people at the stake now.
My understanding is that she was coming over for both sex and GDQ. On one of the the screenshots I saw she specifically mentions that she had almost lost interest in the event altogether and that she just "wanted to party and be yours". Obviously its A-OK to back out of it but I think its disingenuous to say she was just coming to "sleep over" when the situation had clearly escalated beyond that point. Again, not saying the guy isn't an asshole for what he did but what is being leveled at him are sexual harassment accusations.
Why not just say 'entitled asshole' (or something to that effect)? I don't really see how the rest of the label is at all relevant.
Edit: I'm just going to add, I think this guy is a scumbag but feel free to ignore my comments because I don't want to derail the thread from the actual topic.
I fail to see any explanation for what he did that isnt sexual harassment. By his own admission, he kicked her out of a hotel room for refusing to sleep in the same bed with him. If your choices are "sleep with me or be stranded with no where to sleep in a distant city," that's coercion, which is a form of harrassment.
Not even that, communication is key, if he really was a nice guy he would make her feel comfortable by having empathy and having a nice talk with her instead of throwing a hissy fit.If he were really a nice guy he would get another room for her.
Please don't victim blame. It was in no way her fault for this. She has the right to be dtf then change her mind.The moral of the story is that you shouldn't gift a stranger nor accept a gift from a stranger, it's one more occurence of a shitshow that happens quite often. The guy was wrong for offering to pay for the plane tickets.
Not even that, communication is key, if he really was a nice guy he would make her feel comfortable by having empathy and having a nice talk with her instead of throwing a hissy fit.
Like I said, this guy only has himself to blame for making things awkward.
The moral of the story is that you shouldn't gift a stranger nor accept a gift from a stranger, it's one more occurence of a shitshow that happens quite often. The guy was wrong for offering to pay for the plane tickets.
The moral of the story is that you shouldn't gift a stranger nor accept a gift from a stranger, it's one more occurence of a shitshow that happens quite often. The guy was wrong for offering to pay for the plane tickets.
Next you're gonna say that if a girl goes to a shady street at night and gets raped it's her fault for going there and no the fault of the criminalThe moral of the story is that you shouldn't gift a stranger nor accept a gift from a stranger, it's one more occurence of a shitshow that happens quite often. The guy was wrong for offering to pay for the plane tickets.
He did say he offered to sleep on the floor while she was on the bed, but obviously who knows.Come on, he already started grooming her with his claim that he can't sleep alone. She just clarifies that it would be strictly physical if they were to hook up.
He posted it himself: The threat was that she either shares his bed or gets kicked out of their room. It's blackmail. IMHO this is enough to warrant him getting banned for sexual harassment.