Maybe just don't come into threads like this and start criticising victims at all? It's not like she's asking for your advice, or even reading it.
Okay, I apologize. After thinking about it, it was definitely the wrong thing to say.
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Maybe just don't come into threads like this and start criticising victims at all? It's not like she's asking for your advice, or even reading it.
There are a couple of things here that I'm going to try to give you benefit of the doubt on, because you legitimately might not know.
1. Sexual harassment doesnt have as high a bar to cross as you seem to think. He used his relative power in the situation to coerce her into a position she didnt want to be in.
2. Theres no functional difference between "sleep with me or get out" vs "you didnt sleep with me, so get out". In both situations, there was retribution for refusing him.
3. Sexual harrassment doesnt require sex. So if the story about him just wanting her to sleep next to him is true, it doesnt matter. It was still an intimate and vulnerable position that she didn't want to be in.
And even if EVERYTHING up to that point wasnt harrassment, his behavior afterwards, including posting intimate chat logs and threatening to cancel her plane ticket home absolutely constitute harrassment.
I know I shouldn't have looked, but holy hell. She clearly has massive anxiety about flying across the country to see a guy she knows nothing about, and all he can think about is sex. What a piece of shit.Prevent Cancer Foundation. This is all on the GDC site. Seriously,
"Do you mind if I call you kitten?" is a huge red flag, but then again, I'm only saying that because we already know this guy is a shitfuck.
And those Discord messages make him sound worse. He sounds like "we'll EVENTUALLY bone" and she sounds like "MAYBE we'll eventually bone".
You can read the thread. It is only three pages.
Getting banned from a video game competition vs. having a dude who you are relying on for your ticket home cancel it. Which one do you want to throw in with here?
He literally posted screen grabs from a discord where he's talking about sex. It's clearly sexual in nature.3. I'm fairly certain that Sexual Harassment is by definition sexual in nature. It may not require the actual sexual act, but it has to be sexual in nature. As far as we know, her dismissal from the room was not because of a denial of sex.
Everything that came afterwards I can see as harassment, but not of the sexual nature and that is what I'm contesting here.
But the accusation here is Sexual Harassment. Not "regular" harassment, nor being a moron. It's sexual harassment, its THE accusation, the one that ends careers and causes suicides. If you are going to throw it out, you have to be damn sure about it.
You should always, when reasonable, give the benefit of the doubt. I understand that ERA is very sensitive to the different opinions when discussing these kind of topics. But I'm not here to trigger anyone, I don't have an agenda and I'm not sealioning either. I'm not disagreeing just because. I have an opinion on a subject that I don't think is as black and white as a lot of people seem to think it is and I'm interested in having a discussion on it. I'm open to having my mind changed and learning things.
That being said:
1. I've actually been discussing this on my MTG whatsapp group as we have a few lawyers there and the consensus is that yes, she could claim relative power but they also mentioned he has a right to want to be alone on the room due no longer feeling comfortable with her being there. It would boil down to interpretation. This is what gives me the most pause and I'll have to think about it before I can come to a conclusion.
2.This is the one I feel strongly about, I just don't think its the same. Do it with me or get out implies that he is willing to let her stay as long as she does as told. That's textbook coercion, no questions there. But what he said is that he no longer felt comfortable with her being there because the nature of the relationship changed, is he supposed to void his right to be alone on the room he payed for? Obviously this should have been handled differently and what he did is no less shitty but does that action constitute sexual harassment?. Also, as far as we know he is kicking her out, not because he refused to have sex with him, but because he was no longer going to be sleeping next to him. This whole thing initially was about her being able to make the trip and he being able to rest by having someone next to him help him with his insommnia.
3. I'm fairly certain that Sexual Harassment is by definition sexual in nature. It may not require the actual sexual act, but it has to be sexual in nature. As far as we know, her dismissal from the room was not because of a denial of sex.
Everything that came afterwards I can see as harassment, but not of the sexual nature and that is what I'm contesting here. I'm trying to make this perfectly clear: I don't think this dude is a good person based on what little we know about him, I think he's a moron. But the accusation here is Sexual Harassment. Not "regular" harassment, nor being a moron. It's sexual harassment, its THE accusation, the one that ends careers and causes suicides. If you are going to throw it out, you have to be damn sure about it.
Right now, I can see arguments as to why this would constitute sexual harassment and why it would not, and seeing as we don't really have a full picture of what happened I'm guessing its going to stay at that. Still, this has given me a lot to think about, so I'll do that.
The "funny" (funny being relative here) thing about this is that every single thing he posted or said after this happened has only made him look worse and worse. The lack of any self-awareness is almost astonishing.
On the upside we now know how much of a shitbag he is, I guess.
He's now claiming he misunderstood the situation because he's autistic:
He literally posted screen grabs from a discord where he's talking about sex. It's clearly sexual in nature.
"If you are a victim of sexual harassment, think twice before ruining the life of your harasser!"
This thread. This fucking thread.
.
And I'm only saying this because PirateLuigi said that no sex was required for harassment to be sexual (which I don't think its correct a statement).
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NahAnd I'm only saying this because PirateLuigi said that no sex was required for harassment to be sexual (which I don't think its correct a statement).
What the fuckAnd I'm only saying this because PirateLuigi said that no sex was required for harassment to be sexual (which I don't think its correct a statement)
There are hundreds of ways that this could have solved, if he had empathy he should have talked to her like a normal person instead of throwing hissy fitI guess I should thank my lucky stars that I've never once even had to think about paying for sex or using money to leverage a date. God forbid you just let your charm, charisma, and empathy get you to some boobies.
Like, even if I were in this guy's situation and was disappointed I was about to get laid and then didn't... and I thought she was playing games... I feel like I'd be more quickly go downstairs, pay for the cheapest room available and give her the key, and never talk to her again. Dude, just ghost her and say goodbye to $200. Who gives a shit?
I dont know about elsewhere, but in the US this is 100 percent the case. Sexual harassment can include inappropriate touching, language, gestures, images, and other things that aren't sex.
There are hundreds of ways that this could have solved, if he had empathy he should have talked to her like a normal person instead of throwing hissy fit
I'm almost sure that at first the woman was DTF with this guy, but then when she noticed how much of a loser he is, she changed her mind. This guy probably is a really socially awkward person. (I'm not taking a shot at anyone who's socially awkward, but this person is and he isn't making the effort to understand why he messed the fuck up)
Tips for anyone: Empathy and Charisma goes a long loong way.
He's now claiming he misunderstood the situation because he's autistic:
He's now claiming he misunderstood the situation because he's autistic:
He's now claiming he misunderstood the situation because he's autistic:
Last 2 and I'm done. I made my point as best as I could and you are all more than welcome to not like it.
They both agreed to have sex and then she backed out which is fine. There was no breach of consent as far as we know, lets be clear on that. What he CLAIMS is that he sent her away because her refusal to sleep next to him (not sex, sleep) and her intention to instead sleep on the couch caused him to feel uncomfortable with the whole situation. Whether this is true or not, neither you nor I have any way to know. To me, there's enough information available to at least doubt if the dismissal was sexual or not. I understand you've taken your stance on it, I haven't.
Had to clarify this, sorry:
I explained it better when I replied to your first 3 points. You are correct, that a sexual act is not required and can include all the things you mentioned. My point is that all those things have to be of a sexual nature for this to be considered sexual harassment. Sleeping next to someone is not inherently sexual by itself. And whether we like it or not harassment and sexual harassment are different things that carry different weights in our society today. Me insulting you is not the same as me fondling your privates uninvited or sending you pictures of my dick, it is simply not the same. The punishment those things carry both legal and societal are on completely different levels. Again, a kid killed himself on my country because of this, I'm not talking out of my ass.
Anyways, consensus is already reached on this here. So I'm done, just wanted to clarify that.
I think I struggle most with the idea that some guys who freak out like this just don't seem to understand every guy gets turned down at some point. Like, dude, it doesn't have to be a shot to your confidence or ego or anything.
I can't speak for everyone, of course - but as a guy who's had several long-term relationships, several very short relationships, and has ended every.single.one on a good enough note that I could text them tomorrow and they'd reply positively... I've been turned down a dozen times, too. Like, it sucks but life goes on. Assuming she's a normal functioning woman, she's not gonna go tell all her friends or yours; it can be a total non-issue. Call it for the night, go grab a drink or ten, play some video games and go to bed.
More stuff he is currently liking.
He really does think that "buying her Thing X obligates her to have sex with me".
We only know that he hasn't cancelled. If there isn't any penalty to cancel a plane ticket like this (I'm not really good with burocracy), I can see this piece of shit cancelling it out of his petty "revenge".So, actual concern, does she have a plane ticket home? Because I don't trust that piece of human excrement for a second.
I read some more of his comments, which was difficult because what he and many of the other people are saying is pretty sickening, but he says on the first night they cuddled, then "slight escalation" and then on the second night they parted. Whatever "slight escalation" was to him, was clearly not slight to her. And yet he still doesn't get this and decides to shame her. This is horrid.This is pure speculation but I think this is how it went all down:
She may had been DTF at first, they may have engaged into sexual contact at the first night, but she backed out (who wouldn't with a loser like this), the guy, with the lack of his social awareness more than likely thought that she was liking it (common sexual assault stuff, fucking disgusting) and tried to continue it, at this point it turned into sexual harassment. Next day she might have been afraid of speaking out with someone. Being uncomfortable, she decided to sleep on the floor, and once she got kicked out, it was the catalyst for her to open up with the GDQ staff about what happened since she had nowhere to go anymore.
From what I've read he's a piece of shit. Kicking her out is a shitty move but to me it's just that, a shitty move.
As for sexual harassment, that remains to be seen but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. He's just digging his hole even deeper with those tweets.
I'm sure you think you're being funny and sarcastic, and that's OK I guess. Let me explain where I'm coming from:
This was Agustin Muñoz:
https://tn.com.ar/sociedad/un-joven-se-suicido-despues-de-que-lo-acusaron-falsamente-de-abuso_928082
Use google translate if you care to read it (spanish to english). He was 18 years old when he commited suicide this past december because he was falsely accused of raping a female friend on instagram. Ironically, a few days before her son's passing, her mother was very actively harassing (actual verbal harassment) facebook users that were against branding people as sexual harassers without evidence. I don't think I need to tell you what she thinks about the whole thing now.
So, you see, I'm not saying sexual harassment victims should have consideration for their abusers. I'm saying that we should not be throwing sexual harassment accusations lightly because they have real consequences. I never said he was not at fault. What I said is that it is not evident to me that his transgression if you want to put it that way was sexual harassment and not simply being a fucking moron. And it is not evident to me because In my country, outright believing in sexual harassment accusations levied on the internet without taking some time to investigate what went wrong has resulted in the death of at least 2 people (one being a politian the other one being Agustin) one of which, was found to be 100% innocent.
Peace.
It's sexual harassment, its THE accusation, the one that ends careers and causes suicides. If you are going to throw it out, you have to be damn sure about it.
You should always, when reasonable, give the benefit of the doubt.
I understand that ERA is very sensitive to the different opinions when discussing these kind of topics. But I'm not here to trigger anyone, I don't have an agenda and I'm not sealioning either. I'm not disagreeing just because. I have an opinion on a subject that I don't think is as black and white as a lot of people seem to think it is and I'm interested in having a discussion on it. I'm open to having my mind changed and learning things.
That being said:
1. I've actually been discussing this on my MTG whatsapp group as we have a few lawyers there and the consensus is that yes, she could claim relative power but they also mentioned he has a right to want to be alone on the room due no longer feeling comfortable with her being there. It would boil down to interpretation. This is what gives me the most pause and I'll have to think about it before I can come to a conclusion.
2.This is the one I feel strongly about, I just don't think its the same. Do it with me or get out implies that he is willing to let her stay as long as she does as told. That's textbook coercion, no questions there. But what he said is that he no longer felt comfortable with her being there because the nature of the relationship changed, is he supposed to void his right to be alone on the room he payed for? Obviously this should have been handled differently and what he did is no less shitty but does that action constitute sexual harassment?. Also, as far as we know he is kicking her out, not because he refused to have sex with him, but because he was no longer going to be sleeping next to him. This whole thing initially was about her being able to make the trip and he being able to rest by having someone next to him help him with his insommnia.
You should always, when reasonable, give the benefit of the doubt.
What he CLAIMS is that he sent her away because her refusal to sleep next to him (not sex, sleep) and her intention to instead sleep on the couch caused him to feel uncomfortable with the whole situation. Whether this is true or not, neither you nor I have any way to know.
If he didn't cancel her plane ticket, seems shitty to ban him from the event just based on her word with the evidence he's provided. I can see suspending him from it while they investigate, but a permanent ban is funny.
If he didn't cancel her plane ticket, seems shitty to ban him from the event just based on her word with the evidence he's provided. I can see suspending him from it while they investigate, but a permanent ban is funny.
If he didn't cancel her plane ticket, seems shitty to ban him from the event just based on her word with the evidence he's provided. I can see suspending him from it while they investigate, but a permanent ban is funny.