I don't think Vere is an arsonist I just think that was what Fran wanted to make us think about when we saw the role
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Conspiracy Mafia 2 |OT| Where you can overthink everything and not sound like a crazy person
- Thread starter Fran
- Start date
Oh hey, I came back just in time for this. Why were you concerned about claiming this today? It's already been used and scum didn't hit the person you wanted
Mystery item makes myself a nicer bait for a scum kill + the item doesn't give us any useful info anyway = Maybe better not to claim it
Decided it might as well give you another vigilante's recent thought process
Monkey didn't ask me, you asked what my item was and I told you straight up it was a protect and antidote. Why should I tell you it's a self-protect? I'd rather leave scum guessing what it can do rather than explain it.
I understood you of course, but it couldn't last. So I question the deduction. Knowing the entire game, that thought couldn't remain.
not that it matters.
For vere to be scum, nothing really has to be different. He could easily be scum. He didn't beg for role claims, yet did he need to? People jumped at the chance to list their claims. I sort of town read him for having a consistent read of me through the game, and only slowly coming around to the idea that I could be town ....well, when I started acting like it, but otoh *No! there is no other hand!* maybe he just couldn't manage trying to fool me and monkey on the same night. (Since scum him would know we were at least neutral if not town). Also I claimed relatively early in the game. So it was less necessary to pull me in for very-subtle claim begging. Really I could go either way on him.
So, to sum up my thoughts on the gun a bit.
I'm looking to shoot one of these people, mainly because their roles are not directly verifiable.
Flatearthpandas
Wee
Aeleus
Stan
I've looked over a lot of the thread, vote patterns and everything, but it's hard to get a grasp on where people sit as 2 scum were caught by counter claims and we've kind of bounced around for days and days since.
Based on the claims themselves, I feel the worst about Flatearthpandas and Stan's claims, especially seeing as Flatearthpandas has never used their role. It's the kind of safe claim that can explain why scum won't be aiming there at night, while the idea that it's never been used means it can't have hurt any town members so it feels too safe to me.
Stan's role is pretty much negative utility until the end of the game, as the odds are really just in favor of town being voted out. It kind of just keeps everyone away from voting for him.
Wee's role is a Medium that can ask questions of the dead chat. They can probably lie, or answer however they like, but we can't verify this so it's just one to keep in mind.
Aeleus is an Adrenaline Junkie who counterclaimed the Bomber. I feel like scum would most likely want the bomber to stay alive for as long as possible seeing as they are so far behind and there's just a crap ton of town left, so I do feel the best about this claim.
So while I say it's all 4 of those, I'm really looking to shoot and vote for Flatearthpandas and Stan today.
I'm looking to shoot one of these people, mainly because their roles are not directly verifiable.
Flatearthpandas
Wee
Aeleus
Stan
I've looked over a lot of the thread, vote patterns and everything, but it's hard to get a grasp on where people sit as 2 scum were caught by counter claims and we've kind of bounced around for days and days since.
Based on the claims themselves, I feel the worst about Flatearthpandas and Stan's claims, especially seeing as Flatearthpandas has never used their role. It's the kind of safe claim that can explain why scum won't be aiming there at night, while the idea that it's never been used means it can't have hurt any town members so it feels too safe to me.
Stan's role is pretty much negative utility until the end of the game, as the odds are really just in favor of town being voted out. It kind of just keeps everyone away from voting for him.
Wee's role is a Medium that can ask questions of the dead chat. They can probably lie, or answer however they like, but we can't verify this so it's just one to keep in mind.
Aeleus is an Adrenaline Junkie who counterclaimed the Bomber. I feel like scum would most likely want the bomber to stay alive for as long as possible seeing as they are so far behind and there's just a crap ton of town left, so I do feel the best about this claim.
So while I say it's all 4 of those, I'm really looking to shoot and vote for Flatearthpandas and Stan today.
Should say "the odds are really just in favor of town going out with him."
Doesn't say BP, it says protect. And that was literally what I wrote when you first asked.
Considering you are thinking about shooting one of those two, I'd recommend shooting earlier than later so we can debate which to two persons we are going to lynch.
Then why when I asked you to why you hadn't targeted Fanto did you claim that you thought it was possible to use on other players but it turned out it wasn't?
At that point you had claimed it was a passive self target (aka a BP) so why still lie?
I would like ketkat to shoot kalor.
i think he is scum due to his role claim and usage. He says he moved me purely for s&g "to test it", that's not how town!kalor uses roles, he's very good. Then he tested zeke, fine, this could go either way, then a "didn't have time", very plausible, and then a "messed up around the bathroom".
Plus sorian used him as a scapegoat to save a frankly, much better sounding role, and I can believe in a team bus at that point. Can anyone point out where kalor was particularly good at scum hunting this game, for a not-neutral? I know he sounds logical, but he always does.
i think he is scum due to his role claim and usage. He says he moved me purely for s&g "to test it", that's not how town!kalor uses roles, he's very good. Then he tested zeke, fine, this could go either way, then a "didn't have time", very plausible, and then a "messed up around the bathroom".
Plus sorian used him as a scapegoat to save a frankly, much better sounding role, and I can believe in a team bus at that point. Can anyone point out where kalor was particularly good at scum hunting this game, for a not-neutral? I know he sounds logical, but he always does.
Didn't lie, you said if I could protect Fanto, I said 'could' then ignored it.
I know zeke is hard to read at times, but i'm not sure he's the best of the lunch options. His behavior around items has been impeccable, even with the lies.
Going to pause this discussion while I ask Fran if I can copy and paste bits from gossip chat
Kalor is definitely someone I was looking over pretty closely and his vote record is worth looking at. On Day 1, he moved over to TWE as Sawneeks was picking up votes but on Day 2 and 3 he was tunneling on Pirate Bae before the counterclaim came in about her. Pirate Bae's play was definitely scummy, but it's possible that after Sawneeks flipped, scum wanted to start bussing a little bit in order to feel safer down the line.
Do we think that Kalor is lying about moving people around? Because I'm not sure why scum would have that role
Flip feps 1st. Kalor could've moved Ket out from Kitchen on the bomb night and killed me and feps. The paranoid theory in my head is that he did not do that because 1-1 is so not worth it as scum.
Definitely not lying about being able to move people unless he's teammates with Wee. Wee was moved out of the bathroom D1.
I don't think he's lying about being able to move people, I was certainly moved. But why would that role NOT fit in a scum team. Like zeke's, it would just be a bit of insurance given the weird gameplay. And since ynnek turned out town, I now suspect Kalor of being untown. I was much stronger on ynnek being scum until that flip.
also I think he may have moved people and not told us, sure. Could be a day move though. Ynnek didn't see him move on the night kalor says he moved zeke. but if kalor is scum he's using it to test town role claims.
Oh and his well-written post about PB was before anyone else was on it, so yeah, it was a good post, but could have been a bus he got stuck with as the day advanced and fanto came out with data.
So it looked real good at the time, but I still don't feel the role stuff fits with town!kalor. If he had said he was trying to spiky my wheel because I looked scummy and anything I wanted to do, he wanted to interfere with, that would have made me think he was town. But no, he said s&g basically (this in vere's chat).
So it looked real good at the time, but I still don't feel the role stuff fits with town!kalor. If he had said he was trying to spiky my wheel because I looked scummy and anything I wanted to do, he wanted to interfere with, that would have made me think he was town. But no, he said s&g basically (this in vere's chat).
Sorian switches to Kalor to save Bae and give himself towncred should the Kalor flip happen. He also gains a lot of talking points and targets to play with since he would've been the hero who brought back the scum train. Kalor voted Bae but Bae was adamant about not voting back. He never abstained from moving Ket since he never knew that would matter. There also is the Zipped-Blarg-Fanto issue what could be explained by Kalor moving Zipped to the bathroom.
huh. could be a better lynch than vere and nin at least me thinks.
huh. could be a better lynch than vere and nin at least me thinks.
Scum-Kalor can:
Move people into bathroom to roleblock them
Move people out of bathroom to kill them
Mess around with the bomber stuff
Mess around with auction stuff
Kalor has:
Moved Wee out of bathroom exposing role on Day 1
Claimed N4
Not done much else role wise
Became a vote wagon because of Sorian D2 in response to Bae
Kalor (2 votes)
Dr. Monkey
Maolfunction
Fanto
TheChuggernaut/Turmoil7
Blargonaut
💀 Sorian
TheChuggernaut/Turmoil7
💀Terrabyte20xx
Blargonaut
Blargonaut
Dr. Monkey
Fanto
Maolfunction
Zippedpinhead
The odd thing is that unless Maol is scum (very unlikely) scum never tried to save Bae through this wagon, so where were they vote wise? And what does that say about Kalor alignment wise
Move people into bathroom to roleblock them
Move people out of bathroom to kill them
Mess around with the bomber stuff
Mess around with auction stuff
Kalor has:
Moved Wee out of bathroom exposing role on Day 1
Claimed N4
Not done much else role wise
Became a vote wagon because of Sorian D2 in response to Bae
Kalor (2 votes)
Maolfunction
Fanto
💀 Sorian
TheChuggernaut/Turmoil7
💀
Blargonaut
Blargonaut
Dr. Monkey
Maolfunction
Zippedpinhead
The odd thing is that unless Maol is scum (very unlikely) scum never tried to save Bae through this wagon, so where were they vote wise? And what does that say about Kalor alignment wise
I don't agree with this if Zipped moved the next day, but I'd have to check.
He did not move but nor did he mention that he could not do so.
I'd be comfortable with a Kalor lunch. But only after Ket makes up her mind and takes the shot. I need to see how that resolves before deciding on who I'd like the two wagons to be.
That's a very good point about Ynnek's role.
Ynnek action counts
N1 - no actions in dining room
N2 - 2 actions in library
Day 2 Library
Ynnek - 1 action to check others
Flatearthpandas - 1 action
Sorian - ??? - scum redirector - 4 shots
Kyan - 1 action
Faddy - No action
I feel like the odds are super low that Sorian wouldn't use one of his 4 shots in the early game when powers are flying around like crazy, so that would mean that either Flatearthpanda or Kyan is lying, and Kyan has used a double vote in the thread since.
I see.
weemadarthur The only thing you could do after spending the day in the bathroom is vote right? Could that be why Zipped mentioned needing 4 days usually, but 5 days if the first chosen was scum?
I never moved Zipped but obviously it's just my word. My play for this role hasn't been great but not sure what else I could have done better. Whatever, for now
Vote: Stantastic
I didn't like Stans reads list earlier. Felt very generic for this late in the game.
Vote: Stantastic
I didn't like Stans reads list earlier. Felt very generic for this late in the game.
There is nothing odd there if Kalor is scum. Bae had already said that she would not want to vote for him and I imagine many a other scum also would be very hesitant to make the trains two scum and a townie instead of one of both. Also, Sorian's push never got that many townies to join it, scum aren't just going to all stack on one of their own.
You are looking at a zombie again, Sorian was dead on N2.
No, zipped was just lying. go read his card again. He didn't need variant alignment choices. He was trying to pass himself off as a cop.
Oh. Well, then those check out to me I think? The fact that Ynnek had a 0 actions on Night 1 must mean that the role isn't seeing it's own actions, so 2 for 2 makes sense.
While Ynnek's PM does not 100% say that he only saw night actions in the rooms, that's how I am reading it and iirc that is how he said it was as well. He had no way of seeing Kalor, since Kalor has a day action that happens a moment before the day turns into the night.
I don't think you're following me. Zipped normally needs 4 nights to tag 4 people (accounting for them all suriving), so if he wasn't able to put in a tag, he would need 5, which thinking now was a ploy to gain more time. Although he might have been lying to make it so the last person chosen was lunched immediately.
As in he lied so there would be no contradiction when he'd live a day longer than he was supposed to? Funnily enough, that'd also explain the other weird thing: him targeting Aeleus in the bathroom N2. There was no need to do that. What if that too was a lie to cover the fact he was blocked?
To be clear, I still don't think Kalor is scum. There would just be so much WIFOM necessary to have Sorian bus him at that point.
It's possible, Zipped had no problem lying about some things to appear more credible. What could've blocked him though? I doubt Monkey would heal Zipped.
He was trying to manipulate his own game, is what i'm saying. His claim would suggest killing either 1st-tag or last-tag, and of 5 people, 2 free mislunches is a win for him. So he was setting up the outer mafia game to not kill him. I have no clue if he would know when his tags were successful. Maybe he lied about who he tagged because he didn't want to annoy someone he was scum reading into night killing him.
The bathroom move. Now why on earth he would've chosen to lie about that and in this manner, no idea. It fits. But it is certainly one hell of a reach.
Kalor claimed he moved me N1 BECAUSE i was the only person in the bathroom. Then N2 he moved zeke who was in the dining room, to the rec room.
This means the bathroom-untargetable doesn't apply to him, certainly. Also he isn't stuck with the person in the bathroom. so why phrase it that way? He moved me for some other reason, not because of the room I was in. I just can't believe in his role claim at all.
This means the bathroom-untargetable doesn't apply to him, certainly. Also he isn't stuck with the person in the bathroom. so why phrase it that way? He moved me for some other reason, not because of the room I was in. I just can't believe in his role claim at all.
Wording. The bathroom block only applies during night. Kalor moves during the day.
There never was any reason to test anything apart from semantics.
The unable-to-perform-actions applies during the following day phase, actually. Does the untargetable? I haven't read post 1 in a while.
but i hear you on the day move thing, yes.
Ok can't copy paste stuff from gossip which is a bit annoying but whatever
Timeline for vere item stuff
N2: Won Stomach medicine
N3: I ask him what his item was he claims that it works similar to a 1-shot antidote and protect
N4: I bring up Vere recruiting and healing Fanto, he ignores my healing suggestion first (which suggest he might already know it was impossible), when I further push that as an option he says he can attempt to protect him if he isn't in the bathroom
N5: Vere says fanto is lost to us, I question whether he can heal him and he replies saying he could but he was talking about the gossip
D6: Fanto dead, I push Vere about item as he hadn't healed fanto, he repeats that it's a 1-shot antidote and protect
N6: I ask why he didn't heal Fanto, he says that it turns out it was a passive self item and that he thought it could be used on others but turns out it can't
D8: He now claims that he knew all along it was a BP but didn't think it was worth sharing with monkey and me N3 as it could lead to scum finding out
But why on earth lie about his reasoning for not targeting Fanto on N6?
Timeline for vere item stuff
N2: Won Stomach medicine
N3: I ask him what his item was he claims that it works similar to a 1-shot antidote and protect
N4: I bring up Vere recruiting and healing Fanto, he ignores my healing suggestion first (which suggest he might already know it was impossible), when I further push that as an option he says he can attempt to protect him if he isn't in the bathroom
N5: Vere says fanto is lost to us, I question whether he can heal him and he replies saying he could but he was talking about the gossip
D6: Fanto dead, I push Vere about item as he hadn't healed fanto, he repeats that it's a 1-shot antidote and protect
N6: I ask why he didn't heal Fanto, he says that it turns out it was a passive self item and that he thought it could be used on others but turns out it can't
D8: He now claims that he knew all along it was a BP but didn't think it was worth sharing with monkey and me N3 as it could lead to scum finding out
But why on earth lie about his reasoning for not targeting Fanto on N6?