Conspiracy Mafia 2 |OT| Where you can overthink everything and not sound like a crazy person

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,461
AND THOUGH THE KILLING CEASED, "WHAT HAPPENED TO ZEKE?" THOSE LEFT IN THE BUNKER ASKED.

WAS IT A SHOT FROM THE HALL? A SECRET, IN THE WALL? POISON? SUFFOCATION? A BLAST?

YET NO SIGNS OF A STRUGGLE LEFT THEM BEFUDDLED; DEAD, BUT HOW HAD HE PASSED?

THEN A STARTLING SPUTTER BEFORE ZEKE DID UTTER, "IT WAS THEM. THEY DID THIS," AND PASSED.​



 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,027
Switzerland
I just want to point out that there was technically only one mislunch this whole game, so good job town!

Also sorry Chuggs for tunneling you, I got carried away when Saw flipped scum after I announced her scumness on D1.
 

nin

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
2,829
Well that sure was underwhelming...

Nonetheless that sure was a sweep for town.

Kinda insane when looking back at it
 

Zippedpinhead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,682
I was ONE NIGHT SHORT!!!!

seriously one night short..

y'all couldn't give me one night

GG Town you fought well, First time as a neutral twas fun.
 

SweetNicole

The Old Guard
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,923
Hey all,

I wanted to chime in with this game being over with my honest opinion of this game: it was not fun. I know this is a harsh statement, but I want to clarify exactly why this game was not fun for me.

First, by far my biggest issue is the selective enforcement of the rules of the game. I was forcibly replaced by Fran D4 because I incorrectly used the wrong pronouns for someone a second time. This was exactly following the rules as written, which was fine. (And while I have some suggestions for the pronoun rule because frankly is a bit ill-defined and misses the intent of the rule, I will save such suggestions for the review threa)d.

However, if the goal of the game runner is to enforce the rules as written, why was EzekelRAGE given a second warning when he incorrectly used someone's pronouns instead of being immediately removed like I was? Selective enforcement of the rules is absolutely terrible, and it made me feel like less of a player or having less importance than EzekelRAGE from the game runner's perspective.

I want to emphasize how much this frustrates me that the rules were not applied fairly and consistently to every player involved. There's nothing that upsets me more than feeling like I am not equal to someone else. This event alone is enough that I'm going to not play any future games until there is a system in place to ensure that rules are not simply enforced at the whim of a game runner.

I spoke with the game watchers about this ruling, and while they agreed that I was right in that the rules had been enforced selectively, there was nothing that they could do to step in and correct the situation. While I'm glad that the game watchers recognize that there was a wrong done, it is incredibly frustrating that they don't have the power to enforce a game runner to abide by the rules or step into the correct the situation.

Second, replacements this game sucked. I'm not talking about the replacements themselves (who were great), but the act of player being replaced. Obviously, sometimes there’s nothing that can be done when a real life happens, but it is incredibly frustrating as a player when there’s frequent replacements in a game. Case in point, there were six replacements in this game before the EOD D4. That’s over 23% of the players replaced.

Third all role information should be specified in the role PM. During the course of the days, I mentioned how the bomber role was really difficult to play with. The game runner mentioned that “the night that the bomb goes off there is a limit to the amount of players in each room so they can't stack everyone in a room and you are guaranteed to hit someone.” This is super relevant information to the role, and it would likely change how the role is played in the game. I’m not sure how such role information failed to not be in the initial PM, but it really should have been from the get-go.

Fourth, if you’re a player who gets frustrated and/or hostile easily (and you know who you are), I’d really encourage you to keep in mind the effect that has on other players in the game. Mafia is meant to be a fun game, and there is nothing fun about seeing someone get hostile or having a meltdown in a game thread. I understand Mafia can be a frustrating game, but there are ways to express those frustrations in healthy ways that don’t make the experience worse for others.

Overall, I can’t say that my experience in this game was overall fun or good. There were a few moments that were memorable. However, the aforementioned issues to me really dragged the fun out of the game for me. I'll try and drop some of my suggestions when the review thread goes up towards solving this issues, but I think this will be my last mafia game for a while.

gg town
 
OP
OP
Fran

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,470
First, by far my biggest issue is the selective enforcement of the rules of the game. I was forcibly replaced by Fran D4 because I incorrectly used the wrong pronouns for someone a second time. This was exactly following the rules as written, which was fine. (And while I have some suggestions for the pronoun rule because frankly is a bit ill-defined and misses the intent of the rule, I will save such suggestions for the review threa)d.

However, if the goal of the game runner is to enforce the rules as written, why was EzekelRAGE given a second warning when he incorrectly used someone's pronouns instead of being immediately removed like I was? Selective enforcement of the rules is absolutely terrible, and it made me feel like less of a player or having less importance than EzekelRAGE from the game runner's perspective.

I want to emphasize how much this frustrates me that the rules were not applied fairly and consistently to every player involved. There's nothing that upsets me more than feeling like I am not equal to someone else. This event alone is enough that I'm going to not play any future games until there is a system in place to ensure that rules are not simply enforced at the whim of a game runner.
I already said that not replacing Zeke was a mistake. It's a new rule and I thought it was 2 warnings before a replacement. After the second warning I was told that I made a mistake and that I should pay more attention for infractions in the future. But it was never about Zeke our about you. I never tried to benefit Zeke or perjudicate you. It was an error on my part and I admited it when the game ended.

I spoke with the game watchers about this ruling, and while they agreed that I was right in that the rules had been enforced selectively, there was nothing that they could do to step in and correct the situation. While I'm glad that the game watchers recognize that there was a wrong done, it is incredibly frustrating that they don't have the power to enforce a game runner to abide by the rules or step into the correct the situation.
I would have loved that you would have talked to me instead to a game watcher. I was always very open to talk and give answers during the game. And it really bothers me that you never tried to talk to me before complaining and asking to replace Zeke to another game watcher.

Second, replacements this game sucked. I'm not talking about the replacements themselves (who were great), but the act of player being replaced. Obviously, sometimes there’s nothing that can be done when a real life happens, but it is incredibly frustrating as a player when there’s frequent replacements in a game. Case in point, there were six replacements in this game before the EOD D4. That’s over 23% of the players replaced.
What can I do about that? Force a player that can't/dont want to play to keep playing? If you think it's frustrating as a player it's 10 times more frustrating as a gamerunner. I was told that it's one of the points to talk during review.

Third all role information should be specified in the role PM. During the course of the days, I mentioned how the bomber role was really difficult to play with. The game runner mentioned that “the night that the bomb goes off there is a limit to the amount of players in each room so they can't stack everyone in a room and you are guaranteed to hit someone.” This is super relevant information to the role, and it would likely change how the role is played in the game. I’m not sure how such role information failed to not be in the initial PM, but it really should have been from the get-go.
I'm sorry but I don't agree. That information was supposed to be secret as you could use that to know that there was a bomb defuser in the game. I only told you because the info about the bomb defuser was public at that point. But it was never meant to be in the PM. And that information should never have affected how anyone played the role.

I did made a mistake with Zipped's PM where I should have told him that his actions were untargeteable and unblockeable, I thought it was in the PM but it wasn't.

Fourth, if you’re a player who gets frustrated and/or hostile easily (and you know who you are), I’d really encourage you to keep in mind the effect that has on other players in the game. Mafia is meant to be a fun game, and there is nothing fun about seeing someone get hostile or having a meltdown in a game thread. I understand Mafia can be a frustrating game, but there are ways to express those frustrations in healthy ways that don’t make the experience worse for others.
Can you point me where this happened? We only had a single instance that a player was hostile with another player and they were warned by PM as the rules stated.

Overall, I can’t say that my experience in this game was overall fun or good. There were a few moments that were memorable. However, the aforementioned issues to me really dragged the fun out of the game for me. I'll try and drop some of my suggestions when the review thread goes up towards solving this issues, but I think this will be my last mafia game for a while.
I'm sorry that you don't liked the game.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,022
I’d just like to chime in and remind people that gamerunners spend a lot of time designing, tweaking, and running games - far more than goes into just playing. They do so in order to provide the community with fun experiences. Maybe don’t just callously dunk on them, especially when you have never ran a game yourself to appreciate the juggling act it can be. I say this as someone that has ran games and multiple times been belittled and shit on to the point of nearly quitting.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,156
I was ONE NIGHT SHORT!!!!

seriously one night short..

y'all couldn't give me one night

GG Town you fought well, First time as a neutral twas fun.
But you said the players would die, zipped. If you were just a weird D5 survivor with a difficult exit strategy nobody woulda cared. A kingkitty variant tho? Dangerous.....
 

SweetNicole

The Old Guard
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,923
I already said that not replacing Zeke was a mistake. It's a new rule and I thought it was 2 warnings before a replacement. After the second warning I was told that I made a mistake and that I should pay more attention for infractions in the future. But it was never about Zeke our about you. I never tried to benefit Zeke or perjudicate you. It was an error on my part and I admited it when the game ended.
I understand that it was a mistake on your part, but that still didn't make me feel any better as the person who was on the receiving end of it. A better solution would have been apply the same standard to all players. If Ezekel had already been given a second warning, then I should have been given a second warning as well IMO.

I totally understand that it wasn't made on prejudice nor favoritism. At the end of the day, mafia games are no small commitment and so spending all those hours working on posts, following along, and such only to be removed from the game in such a way really made me sad.

For the record, I don't hold this whole experience against you, Fran. I know it was an honest mistake on your part, not intentional malice. I don't hold any ill will or grudge towards you for it. I think anyone could have made the same mistake, and honestly I'm more interested in how to prevent such a situation from happening in the future.

I would have loved that you would have talked to me instead to a game watcher. I was always very open to talk and give answers during the game. And it really bothers me that you never tried to talk to me before complaining and asking to replace Zeke to another game watcher.
I asked a game watcher about the ruling, expressed my frustration with the inconsistencies, and asked if it was possible for them to resolve the issue in a way that was fair to everyone involved in the game - which it did not appear to be the case. I did not desire to go to you because I was feeling hurt when you made the decision. In addition, talking to a neutral third party helped put things in perspective whereas I fear I would have gotten rather heated in any conversation with you directly. I didn't intend to offend.

What can I do about that? Force a player that can't/dont want to play to keep playing? If you think it's frustrating as a player it's 10 times more frustrating as a gamerunner. I was told that it's one of the points to talk during review.
I don't think this is your fault at all. Those stepped in for replacements were great, and you did do a good job of getting replacements slotted into the game quickly. Honestly, this is just one of the problems with the system I think that really was exasperated this game in particular.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. That information was supposed to be secret as you could use that to know that there was a bomb defuser in the game. I only told you because the info about the bomb defuser was public at that point. But it was never meant to be in the PM. And that information should never have affected how anyone played the role.

I did made a mistake with Zipped's PM where I should have told him that his actions were untargeteable and unblockeable, I thought it was in the PM but it wasn't.
Maybe I'm missing something. How would knowing there is a limit to the rooms on the night of the bomb going off indicate there is a bomb defuser in the game? All it would have indicated to me was that my bomb was almost always guaranteed to hit someone, so I could take my time and not rush it. Compare that to no room limits where everyone could potentially stack in one room. This is probably wouldn't make a significant impact on how the game played out in the end and it didn't really impact my enjoyment of the game that much, but it would have changed how I played my role individually I feel.

Can you point me where this happened? We only had a single instance that a player was hostile with another player and they were warned by PM as the rules stated.
I don't want to publicly call out any players in particular, but there was a few instances early on of players saying they are going to quit, asking to be hammered, saying they're done, etc. I'm sure they know who they are. For me, it lessened my fun a bit to see people acting that way. I can send you some links to some in PM if you want. Just let me know.

I don't think it was something that was against the rules though, and I don't think it is your responsibility as a game runner to force people to not act like that.

I'm sorry that you don't liked the game.
I will say outside the fair enforcement of the rules equally which did leave a big sour taste in my mouth, I think you ran the rest of the game well and did the best you could.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,703
Yeah I had already been thinking I'm not going to play anymore, I'll just run games and help out with reviewing and stuff, my meltdowns are clearly disrupting the game, its embarrassing enough on it's own, but if it makes people uncomfortable too then that's even more reason to just stop.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,224
I will say I hate replacing out in games and I hate that I've had to do it for both of Fran's conspiracy games especially knowing that finding a replacement would have been really hard at that point. It happens though. Sometimes you end up busier than you would have liked or have a legit emergency. It sucks and it's frustrating and I can't imagine what that's like from a gamerunner POV, but it happens and it is what it is

Yeah I had already been thinking I'm not going to play anymore, I'll just run games and help out with reviewing and stuff, my meltdowns are clearly disrupting the game, its embarrassing enough on it's own, but if it makes people uncomfortable too then that's even more reason to just stop.
I like playing you with you though :(
 

Pedro

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,692
Yes, Chuggs, but those are not the only reasons we see people using to repeteadly want to leave, or just leave, games. We'll talk about replacements, and how the act of leaving a game impacts it, in the future review thread.
 

Zippedpinhead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,682
Yeah I had already been thinking I'm not going to play anymore, I'll just run games and help out with reviewing and stuff, my meltdowns are clearly disrupting the game, its embarrassing enough on it's own, but if it makes people uncomfortable too then that's even more reason to just stop.
Well I appreciate playing with you and I hope if you take time off you find your way back.