ContraPoints | Canceling

[Deleted member 721]

i posted when the video released saying i liked the video, but i had to think since its a complex topic, after reading comments, this is my conclusion:
The video segment about angel after reading the counter points here in the thread seems to be bad because of the partiality and because of that, it becomes a defense of him. I understand that she wants to be kind of a bridge to talk with people with shitty positions and maybe change them, and that she doesnt agree with those people, but that can be agressive to an opressed group to have an agressor appearing casualy in the video without any change of mind, and thats a problem. I think there's no problem to debate and talk with shitty people, if you dont normalize those people with proper context and critic, to casualy appear in her work without that gives an idea of aceptation of that person and views. I dont believe she agrees with angel and etc, but i think she should improve in this aspect. And that defense doesnt help her, the opposite.
About the part about cancelling i think i agree more with her, but i understand people here, an opressed person is not obliged to act calmly all the time in face of bigotry, to be pissed because you are hurt is normal and human, and its not cool to expect people to act calmly and patienly with the source of opression. But i think we should try our best with people that we know its not trying to purposely hurt others or is an ally and made a mistake, i dont think nataly is an enemy (like an alt-right bigot), i think she intentionaly made mistakes and i agree she's to defensive about it and that sux, because she could improve (but i hope she will). Also i think its normal and expected to nataly friends to want to defend her, they like her and that doesnt makes them bucky angel supporters.
Reading the thread it appeared clear to me that no one aproves harassment to contra and co., so i guess there's no point to make about it.
So i think its ok to people to unsubscribe or do not want to watch contra anymore and to not like her no one is obliged to give her another chance, and i think its also ok for people that want to give a chance to her, and people that want to watch her, i do not think natalie and etc are confirmed bigots they positioned themselves many times against bigotry, so i dont think that any kind of support/view/subscribe to her /them is the same as supporting bigotry and being a bigot.
I also think people shouldn't dismiss the criticism in this thread, and just watch the video.There's good informative criticism here.

 

[Malakym]

I didn't not acknowledge the opinion of people affected, which is one of the reasons I didn't comment further on her excuse itself

Click to shrink...

Nah, FOH with that. You watched that massively long video, read maybe 1 page out of 20+ and decided to drop that deuce *before* reading the rest?
Not to mention I read the Girlfriend Review thread and saw you in there trying to draw comparisons immediately after posting here. You ain't slick.

 

[Deleted member 47700]

Delete.

 

[Deleted member 47700]

fuck wrong thread

 

[Juna]

Essence of thought has published a video response to Contras Canceling video. They are one of the more well known non binary channels on YT.
I haven't watched this one either. (What happened to writing essays?), but I think it's a good idea to gather more non binary voices on this.

 

[CesspoolofHatred]

Essence of thought has published a video response to Contras Canceling video. They are one of the more well known non binary channels on YT.
I haven't watched this one either. (What happened to writing essays?), but I think it's a good idea to gather more non binary voices on this.

Click to shrink...

there's a transcript in the description if that's more your speed

Also important to note that this is actually only part 1 of what's gonna be a multi-part thing

Encourage y'all to watch it because it shows a tad more context to the James Charles stuff that Natalie used as an example

 

[Juna]

there's a transcript in the description if that's more your speed

Also important to note that this is actually only part 1 of what's gonna be a multi-part thing

Encourage y'all to watch it because it shows a tad more context to the James Charles stuff that Natalie used as an example

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the tip of the transcript. It's really only the first part by a long shot.
It's a really personal video too. They have been through a lot of difficulty.
Watching or reading through it is really worth it!

 

[CesspoolofHatred]

Second part of Essence of Thought's video response to Contra's Canceling video, mostly focused on her defense of Buck Angel. Transcript in the description for this one too.



Ngl I didn't consider the whole domestic abuse angle to Buck outing Lana Wachowski.

 

[mbpm]

I'll check these videos out

 

[Sandstar]

Second part of Essence of Thought's video response to Contra's Canceling video, mostly focused on her defense of Buck Angel. Transcript in the description for this one too.



Ngl I didn't consider the whole domestic abuse angle to Buck outing Lana Wachowski.

Click to shrink...

Oh wow, they're a blast from the past. I used to watch their videos, and just sort of forgot due to the "Algorithm" Thanks for the link, I'll be sure to watch it, since they make quality content.

 

[Deleted member 82]

Essence of thought has published a video response to Contras Canceling video. They are one of the more well known non binary channels on YT.
I haven't watched this one either. (What happened to writing essays?), but I think it's a good idea to gather more non binary voices on this.

Click to shrink...

Second part of Essence of Thought's video response to Contra's Canceling video, mostly focused on her defense of Buck Angel. Transcript in the description for this one too.



Ngl I didn't consider the whole domestic abuse angle to Buck outing Lana Wachowski.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for the heads-up. Just watched both videos. They're very dense, and, as a non-native speaker, I kind of struggle with Peter's enunciation - thankfully, they make their scripts available. That said, the videos seemed well-researched, with great... counterpoints (ugh) to Contra's video that certainly highlight Natalie's blind spots and a number of disingenuous oversimplifications she engages in. I was already critical of Contra's stance, but this cemented my impression that she's really fucking up. I suggest anyone who might be on the fence (especially if you're cis like me) about the whole issue to watch both parts.

Anyway, I'll have to check EssenceOfThought's other vids. I didn't know about them. Thanks.

 

[Brian McDoogle]

So, Natalie Wynn was on the NPR/WNYC program On the Media to discuss cancelling, her video, and whatnot:

https://overcast.fm/+FqbEuKI/33:49

That link should take you to around the 33 minute mark where her segment starts. It isn't saying anything new, but considering it's a large national show, I felt it would be interesting for people to get how it is being framed.

The whole epidode is about cancelling and associations with "bad" people, including the recent drama of Sanders cutting a campaign ad with Joe Rogan, who has said multiple racist and transphobic statements. It is split into four interviews.

 

[Juna]

Final video from Essence of Thought. Dealing with the tweets she showed and presenting a conclusion to the whole three part series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SkIYTA-80&feature=youtu.be

What really gets me about Natalie's video is how much she frames the discussion. She didn't just talk about her own feelings and motivations. She also tells her audience what her critics feelings and motivations really are. But throughout the video she gives herself leeway she doesn't give her critics.
One of the most obvious ones is how she describes people critical of her uniformly as "trans twitter".

The other really shady thing is how much context she removes from statements. Like the tweet attacking Mia for posting the heart in response to philosophy tube. But leaving all the apology of the person making that tweet. Making the critics seem rabid and out of control.
She also leaves out the part of Tati's video that actually lead to people accusing James of being a sexual predator. Making them sound completely unreasonable. Chrisi tackles that part in a recent video too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arUmRxOJ9YA&feature=emb_logo

There are more instances of that too, Essence notes a few of them. Of course she accuses her critics of leaving out context.
And in a more thread local matter. When I posted at the start of the thread that I'm not interested in a long video titled canceling, since it couldn't be a genuine apology. People told me that Contra had of course addressed the critic in the video already, so it was invalid. But she didn't address it, she dismissed it. Predicting an obvious critic people will have with your work doesn't make it invalid. It just makes it obvious.