- Oct 28, 2017
Cool, thanks for the thread. Never watched her videos before and these are really well done.
Yeah her production values are a big part of selling her points to folks. There is a parallel between how she explains why people are easily indoctrinated to things via imagery and symbolism and the way she uses imagery and wit to appeal to the intersections of those things between maladjusted young white men and marginalized folks.
T1J does good stuff
Yeah her incel video wasn't what I expected at all.The thing I love most about Contra is her willingness to approach topics with some level of empathy, even when covering people she pretty obviously disagrees with and thinks have abhorrent views. Her video on Incels was pretty eye opening in that where most are fine to just point and laugh at those guys, she really did the work to try and come at them on a human level. She ended up making some valuable points about dating culture, masculinity, and depression during, all the while being hilarious and vulnerable in a way many youtubers aren't.
I get what you are saying, but we have to include them or nothing useful will ever get done. It will just be a series of attacks that every party feels is justified. The burden is, unfairly, on the Left, to bridge the gap. The young, white right will never extend that branch. This is not turf war... it's existential crises at this point.
She's also very adept at tailoring her content to the audience she wants to reach. She meets right-wingers halfway and speaks their language with humor. Her whole presentation has evolved to capture and hold the interest of people with short attention spans. Even her titles are well thought through. Natalie gave one of her best works yet, "Are Traps Gay?", that name so it would be discovered by people who are benighted enough to unironically Google that question.
For me, I'm referring specifically to politics and in a more general sense, "current events and social punditry". No doubt an online college lecture for Sociology will probably be better than a PhilosophyTube video for educational purposes, although narrower in scope.
Depending on who you ask on this forum, you're either Contrapoints and lauded for humanizing these types of people or ridiculed for trying to find the nuance in what they're saying.The thing I love most about Contra is her willingness to approach topics with some level of empathy, even when covering people she pretty obviously disagrees with and thinks have abhorrent views. Her video on Incels was pretty eye opening in that where most are fine to just point and laugh at those guys, she really did the work to try and come at them on a human level. She ended up making some valuable points about dating culture, masculinity, and depression during it, all the while being hilarious and vulnerable in a way many youtubers aren't.
I'm thinking it's less about converting 8channers and more about finding people who maybe don't identify as either side, but see merit in the free speech argument or Jordan Peterson or something similar. I googled the reddit post from the video, and yeah, it wasn't about a fullblown alt-right conversion, but instead something closer to what I expected.
I'm a "whynotboth" sort of guy.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm definitely biased because as an engineer, I'm always about the why. It's my job and passion to care about the why. Why does this work? Why does this NOT work? I just think it would be healthier for more people to be a little more inquisitive about the why, not only in this context, but as a general life skill.So my point of view is that if you want to help create an empathetic environment that deradicalizes the alt right, good that sort of space should exist. If you just want to dump on the alt right for being shitty failures of human beings, that's also good and a space that should exist. The only space that shouldn't exist is the one that accepts them as they are.
Believe it or not, she's had the most success in Leftist Youtube in driving people away from the alt-right. It's all in her style. She prefers to seduce people to her idea instead of harshly criticizing the alt-right (she does that too, but not in a way that would be a turnoff).
If you look at the comments they're full of people who've turned away from the alt-right YouTube sphere by people like ContraPoints. A lot of the alt-right YouTubers spew this anti-SJW narrative of "feminist lefties" being angry, illiterate screaming women who let emotion get in the way of reason and logic. All it takes is for them to click on one Contrapoints video, maybe because it was recommended or stood out with a title like 'Jordan Peterson', or maybe to laugh at the angry trans feminist and own the libs, and it turns out the bubble they've been living in has pushed such a misleading narrative that it pops almost immediately. Once that seed of doubt is planted they're more likely to go down YouTube avenues they've always avoided.
Art House Politics is also good shit
I hate all "people look at camera and lecturing" videos on youtube, but her's. Her way of doing it is elegant. She doesn't fall into the trap of ranting like most. Her interjection of humor keeps it brisk, but goes into the content deep enough, pins blame, etc. But does so in a very intelligent way with great production. Each video is a surgery. So I can see why the Alt-right pick up on her.
Beau of the Fifth Column
It's a thin line to walk. As you say, not every troll is going to be worth the time or energy needed to empathize with, and sometimes shit is just wrong and needs to be called as such. Natalie is very good at condemning the ideology without necessarily condemning the person, unless said person has revealed themselves to just be, as she'd put it, a dicknugget. To use the incel video again, she is able to note that most incels are just regular guys who have fallen into a deep pit of depression and self-loathing while also saying her sympathy for them runs out as soon as they start harassing and harming others. It's not easy to do that without coming across like you're trying to give them a pass, and people on Era too often fall into the trap of defending the dicknuggets.I'm glad she brings up just how central of an issue "free speech" actually is. For a lot of ignorant people (teens especially), policing the words they use is pretty much where you get the most emotional backlash. When I was a teen in the 2000s, "homo" and "fag" were go-to insults for EVERYTHING. Was there an anti-LGBTQ undertone floating about? Yes absolutely, but for the most part, the words were just slang for things you didn't like and you didn't think much about it. When the first thing you say to these people is call them homophobes, they dig in, because in their minds they aren't really. In fact, they probably hadn't thought much about it. When the next thing you say to them is the "freeze peach" meme, they dig in further. Just like anti-vaxxers, they try to look for validation on the internet. Where do you find this validation? Alt-right youtube. We've all seen the algorithmic links between gaming and alt-right content, the ads for PragerU, etc. All these people need is the smallest shove from society to fall into that pit.
This is why (another point the video brings up) Contrapoints's background is so important. She empathizes from experience. She talks to them rather than at them. How you engage matters, internet or not. Not to say that every troll on T_D is worth anyone's time, but always be mindful of the audience. For instance, someone on this forum defending bad people out of ignorance.
Depending on who you ask on this forum, you're either Contrapoints and lauded for humanizing these types of people or ridiculed for trying to find the nuance in what they're saying.