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Contrapoints is De-Radicalizing Young, Right-Wing Men [VICE]

Oct 25, 2017
3,430
I love seeing CP covered by bigger outlets, because what she is doing is vitally-important, and it can be tough to get eyes on it when she is presented as "just another Youtuber."
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,383
I know it’s a little besides the point, but Natalie’s use of music in her YouTube videos is seriously impressive as well. Just from an editing and timing standpoint, I’ve always been impressed with the production in general.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,210
Not America
Some additional good individual YTubers for combating the filth that is alt-right/neo nazi/white supremacist/YT money maker crap:

1. Shaun
2. Innuendo Studios
3. Three Arrows
4. Lindsay Ellis
5. Hbomber Guy
6. Trae Crowder

Name more if you know.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,430
I know it’s a little besides the point, but Natalie’s use of music in her YouTube videos is seriously impressive as well. Just from an editing and timing standpoint, I’ve always been impressed with the production in general.
Yeah her production values are a big part of selling her points to folks. There is a parallel between how she explains why people are easily indoctrinated to things via imagery and symbolism and the way she uses imagery and wit to appeal to the intersections of those things between maladjusted young white men and marginalized folks.

She knows that presentation matters, even if that's not how it SHOULD be. She is a realist who wants to do some good.
 
Nov 15, 2017
1,170
The thing I love most about Contra is her willingness to approach topics with some level of empathy, even when covering people she pretty obviously disagrees with and thinks have abhorrent views. Her video on Incels was pretty eye opening in that where most are fine to just point and laugh at those guys, she really did the work to try and come at them on a human level. She ended up making some valuable points about dating culture, masculinity, and depression during it, all the while being hilarious and vulnerable in a way many youtubers aren't.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,892
Some additional good individual YTubers for combating the filth that is alt-right/neo nazi/white supremacist/YT money maker crap:

1. Shaun
2. Innuendo Studios
3. Three Arrows
4. Lindsay Ellis
5. Hbomber Guy
6. Trae Crowder

Name more if you know.
T1J does good stuff

 
Oct 25, 2017
3,430
Yeah. ContraPoints rules and it seems like PT's been taking inspiration and stepping up in terms of presentation and I love it.
Yeah, if the end result is a net positive, go for it. The left as a whole would do well to embrace her approach.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,434
The thing I love most about Contra is her willingness to approach topics with some level of empathy, even when covering people she pretty obviously disagrees with and thinks have abhorrent views. Her video on Incels was pretty eye opening in that where most are fine to just point and laugh at those guys, she really did the work to try and come at them on a human level. She ended up making some valuable points about dating culture, masculinity, and depression during, all the while being hilarious and vulnerable in a way many youtubers aren't.
Yeah her incel video wasn't what I expected at all.

Same with Jordan Peterson. She dismantles Peterson at the end solely on the impossible contradiction between postmodernism marxism if I recall.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,430
I dare someone to point to a YouTube channel that is doing something more important than what Natalie is doing. She is trying to defuse a really shitty bomb.

Caveat: You have to watch and listen to her content first.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,645
Fuck these guys(not contrapoints). they get to receive "help" and then move on with their lives while some of the people affected by their views have lifelong scars or even end up dead.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,430
Fuck these guys(not contrapoints). they get to receive "help" and then move on with their lives while some of the people affected by their views have lifelong scars or even end up dead.
I get what you are saying, but we have to include them or nothing useful will ever get done. It will just be a series of attacks that every party feels is justified. The burden is, unfairly, on the Left, to bridge the gap. The young, white right will never extend that branch. This is not turf war... it's existential crises at this point.

Support the people trying to talk to the other side. They are our only chance. We can't win via anger.
 
Nov 8, 2017
1,950
I watch way more YouTube than is probably healthy or normal for any sane person in their mid 20s, and IMO ContraPoints is the current single best content producer on the platform. She's making important videos that can be genuinely labeled art with a finesse that basically embarrasses everyone else.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,614
On top of some of the tubers mentions I also occasionally watch some lesser known peeps from LeftTube(or whatever you want to call it) more from the anarchist side of things:

-Thought Slime
-Angie Speaks
-Non-compete

not the same quality of production values but lots of compelling discussion
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,826
Maybe, at long last, more people will start talking about the mouthfeel.

Hatewatching is a thing. I've seen some of her stuff, she is really good.
She's also very adept at tailoring her content to the audience she wants to reach. She meets right-wingers halfway and speaks their language with humor. Her whole presentation has evolved to capture and hold the interest of people with short attention spans. Even her titles are well thought through. Natalie gave one of her best works yet, "Are Traps Gay?", that name so it would be discovered by people who are benighted enough to unironically Google that question.
 
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Jun 19, 2018
199
I don't know about any of these YouTube channels, so thanks for the heads up -- I will check them out.

When you lot say these are the only good ones (whether hyperbolically or not) are you talking about in a specific genre? What about silly comedy channels, or educational ones?
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,831
When you lot say these are the only good ones (whether hyperbolically or not) are you talking about in a specific genre?
For me, I'm referring specifically to politics and in a more general sense, "current events and social punditry". No doubt an online college lecture for Sociology will probably be better than a PhilosophyTube video for educational purposes, although narrower in scope.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,888
I'm glad she brings up just how central of an issue "free speech" actually is. For a lot of ignorant people (teens especially), policing the words they use is pretty much where you get the most emotional backlash. When I was a teen in the 2000s, "homo" and "fag" were go-to insults for EVERYTHING. Was there an anti-LGBTQ undertone floating about? Yes absolutely, but for the most part, the words were just slang for things you didn't like and you didn't think much about it. When the first thing you say to these people is call them homophobes, they dig in, because in their minds they aren't really. In fact, they probably hadn't thought much about it. When the next thing you say to them is the "freeze peach" meme, they dig in further. Just like anti-vaxxers, they try to look for validation on the internet. Where do you find this validation? Alt-right youtube. We've all seen the algorithmic links between gaming and alt-right content, the ads for PragerU, etc. All these people need is the smallest shove from society to fall into that pit.

This is why (another point the video brings up) Contrapoints's background is so important. She empathizes from experience. She talks to them rather than at them. How you engage matters, internet or not. Not to say that every troll on T_D is worth anyone's time, but always be mindful of the audience. For instance, someone on this forum defending bad people out of ignorance.

The thing I love most about Contra is her willingness to approach topics with some level of empathy, even when covering people she pretty obviously disagrees with and thinks have abhorrent views. Her video on Incels was pretty eye opening in that where most are fine to just point and laugh at those guys, she really did the work to try and come at them on a human level. She ended up making some valuable points about dating culture, masculinity, and depression during it, all the while being hilarious and vulnerable in a way many youtubers aren't.
Depending on who you ask on this forum, you're either Contrapoints and lauded for humanizing these types of people or ridiculed for trying to find the nuance in what they're saying.
 
Sep 30, 2018
802
Her stuff is great, I just find it hard to believe that alt-right people would actually give her the time of day, but if they do, then maybe progress is being made which is giving me hope
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,888
Her stuff is great, I just find it hard to believe that alt-right people would actually give her the time of day, but if they do, then maybe progress is being made which is giving me hope
I'm thinking it's less about converting 8channers and more about finding people who maybe don't identify as either side, but see merit in the free speech argument or Jordan Peterson or something similar. I googled the reddit post from the video, and yeah, it wasn't about a fullblown alt-right conversion, but instead something closer to what I expected.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Depending on who you ask on this forum, you're either Contrapoints and lauded for humanizing these types of people or ridiculed for trying to find the nuance in what they're saying.
I'm a "whynotboth" sort of guy.

The thing about any repugnant human being is that they are all human. Like, every single inhumane acts in the entire history of the world has been conducted by humans, and therefore are understandable in a humanistic way. You just have to allow yourself to legitimately explore how you would come to do a thing that you find abhorrent. It's not a question that normal people ask themselves. "How would I end up wanting black people to be killed?" is a question we want to instinctively say no to, but it's actually just a matter of imagining yourself born into a hateful culture that was never given a reason to question it.

But at the same time, the reason people don't ask those questions is that it really sucks having to contemplate a realistic way in which you could have lost your own soul AND it's a question of whether that's even truly useful. Sure, you could empathize and that's sometimes the right thing to do, but I think the fact that empathy is a trait that's under utilized has cultivated the myth that it ought to ALWAYS be utilized when in reality, there are times where it's much better to treat an enemy as just an enemy, either for your own mental health or else because it's the most practical thing to do. Contrapoints is good for being the one to reach out, but it's not the job of minorities to give entitled white people therapy lessons on how to not be shitty people.

So my point of view is that if you want to help create an empathetic environment that deradicalizes the alt right, good that sort of space should exist. If you just want to dump on the alt right for being shitty failures of human beings, that's also good and a space that should exist. The only space that shouldn't exist is the one that accepts them as they are.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,888
So my point of view is that if you want to help create an empathetic environment that deradicalizes the alt right, good that sort of space should exist. If you just want to dump on the alt right for being shitty failures of human beings, that's also good and a space that should exist. The only space that shouldn't exist is the one that accepts them as they are.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm definitely biased because as an engineer, I'm always about the why. It's my job and passion to care about the why. Why does this work? Why does this NOT work? I just think it would be healthier for more people to be a little more inquisitive about the why, not only in this context, but as a general life skill.
 
Mar 13, 2018
1,529
I hate to be that guy, but on Earth are young right wing men gonna listen to a transwoman?
Believe it or not, she's had the most success in Leftist Youtube in driving people away from the alt-right. It's all in her style. She prefers to seduce people to her idea instead of harshly criticizing the alt-right (she does that too, but not in a way that would be a turnoff).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,243
Her stuff is great, I just find it hard to believe that alt-right people would actually give her the time of day, but if they do, then maybe progress is being made which is giving me hope

I think there's a lot in the format of her videos. I personally can't stand the talking straight to camera stream of consciousness interjected with witty one line edits, but we know it connects with the audience that are being fed that content by Youtube right-wingers.

The usual vids I watch are group of people in a room chatting together.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,111
Alabama
Her videos helped me understand many of the issues she speaks on, especially when it comes to the trans community. They helped to strip away some of my ignorance and confusion.
 
Nov 1, 2017
805
I like her tone in general. The problem with so many leftist commentators on twitter and YouTube is that they can be absolutely fucking insufferable. Even when I agree with them I want to punch them in the face. She never feels like she’s talking down to you, and that goes a long way.

That said, her sort of general video style never appealed to me. Always felt a bit too meandering, even if they were well produced for what they were.
 
Her stuff is great, I just find it hard to believe that alt-right people would actually give her the time of day, but if they do, then maybe progress is being made which is giving me hope
If you look at the comments they're full of people who've turned away from the alt-right YouTube sphere by people like ContraPoints. A lot of the alt-right YouTubers spew this anti-SJW narrative of "feminist lefties" being angry, illiterate screaming women who let emotion get in the way of reason and logic. All it takes is for them to click on one Contrapoints video, maybe because it was recommended or stood out with a title like 'Jordan Peterson', or maybe to laugh at the angry trans feminist and own the libs, and it turns out the bubble they've been living in has pushed such a misleading narrative that it pops almost immediately. Once that seed of doubt is planted they're more likely to go down YouTube avenues they've always avoided.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,026
Some additional good individual YTubers for combating the filth that is alt-right/neo nazi/white supremacist/YT money maker crap:

1. Shaun
2. Innuendo Studios
3. Three Arrows
4. Lindsay Ellis
5. Hbomber Guy
6. Trae Crowder

Name more if you know.
Art House Politics is also good shit
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,760
Her stuff is great, I just find it hard to believe that alt-right people would actually give her the time of day, but if they do, then maybe progress is being made which is giving me hope
I hate all "people look at camera and lecturing" videos on youtube, but her's. Her way of doing it is elegant. She doesn't fall into the trap of ranting like most. Her interjection of humor keeps it brisk, but goes into the content deep enough, pins blame, etc. But does so in a very intelligent way with great production. Each video is a surgery. So I can see why the Alt-right pick up on her.
 
Nov 1, 2017
49
Some additional good individual YTubers for combating the filth that is alt-right/neo nazi/white supremacist/YT money maker crap:

1. Shaun
2. Innuendo Studios
3. Three Arrows
4. Lindsay Ellis
5. Hbomber Guy
6. Trae Crowder

Name more if you know.
Beau of the Fifth Column
A very well-read guy who is totally not the kinda person you think he's gonna be from first looking at him.
 
Nov 15, 2017
1,170
I'm glad she brings up just how central of an issue "free speech" actually is. For a lot of ignorant people (teens especially), policing the words they use is pretty much where you get the most emotional backlash. When I was a teen in the 2000s, "homo" and "fag" were go-to insults for EVERYTHING. Was there an anti-LGBTQ undertone floating about? Yes absolutely, but for the most part, the words were just slang for things you didn't like and you didn't think much about it. When the first thing you say to these people is call them homophobes, they dig in, because in their minds they aren't really. In fact, they probably hadn't thought much about it. When the next thing you say to them is the "freeze peach" meme, they dig in further. Just like anti-vaxxers, they try to look for validation on the internet. Where do you find this validation? Alt-right youtube. We've all seen the algorithmic links between gaming and alt-right content, the ads for PragerU, etc. All these people need is the smallest shove from society to fall into that pit.

This is why (another point the video brings up) Contrapoints's background is so important. She empathizes from experience. She talks to them rather than at them. How you engage matters, internet or not. Not to say that every troll on T_D is worth anyone's time, but always be mindful of the audience. For instance, someone on this forum defending bad people out of ignorance.


Depending on who you ask on this forum, you're either Contrapoints and lauded for humanizing these types of people or ridiculed for trying to find the nuance in what they're saying.
It's a thin line to walk. As you say, not every troll is going to be worth the time or energy needed to empathize with, and sometimes shit is just wrong and needs to be called as such. Natalie is very good at condemning the ideology without necessarily condemning the person, unless said person has revealed themselves to just be, as she'd put it, a dicknugget. To use the incel video again, she is able to note that most incels are just regular guys who have fallen into a deep pit of depression and self-loathing while also saying her sympathy for them runs out as soon as they start harassing and harming others. It's not easy to do that without coming across like you're trying to give them a pass, and people on Era too often fall into the trap of defending the dicknuggets.