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Contrapoints is De-Radicalizing Young, Right-Wing Men [VICE]

Oct 27, 2017
229
I don't watch much YouTube so I actually never heard of her. I just checked some of her stuff out and instantly subscribe. She's awesome. I reproach is it so in line with how I would go about and how I actually do go about interacting with opposing viewpoints.

Sadly I've noticed at times on era and the old place if someone takes a similar approach in text form it is many times not tolerated and seen as complacent or enabling.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,519
Posted this in the Gaming side topic about PDP in regards to the gaggle of alt-right thought leaders he supports and follows. It seems to be relevant here too since we're posting more YT personalities in ContraPoints camp. Side note: I love how often Contra and others on this list not only get together for discussion but also support by reposting the videos of their peers when alt-right goons use YT to flag and remove their videos making sure to counter the efforts made to silence them.

From Three Arrows on:
Ben Shapiro and Others
Jordan Peterson

From Shaun on:
Stephan Molyneux
Lauren Southern: 1 & 2
Paul Joseph Watson: 1 & 2
General Alt-Right All-Stars

From H.Bomberguy on:
Various
and just for the hell of it PDP himself

From ContraPoints on:
Various & More

I could post more and probably will after a bit of breakfast. But this already is just the surface scrapings of the depths that PDP's posse sinks to.

EDIT:
More as promised:

Anti-Social Media on:
Paul Joseph Watson
And more PJW

Peter Coffin on:
Jordan Peterson feat. PDP
General

More Three Arrows on Ben Shapiro & General

EDIT: Adding even more to the endless list:
The Double Take on:
Lauren Southern
Ben Shapiro
 
Oct 27, 2017
229
She's got the right idea that it's not about facts with these people.

Few people seem to have caught on to this.
You're exactly right. unless a person is somewhat versed in human behavior and psychology, they think that you can rationalize and talk to people to get them to understand why they may be wrong.

while that may work for a small percentage of people who have a certain type of mental composition and emotional disposition. The majority of folks need to first be connected to on an emotional level where are you can establish some rapport. Once you have found a space were you can agree and connect with a person,at on some level within some context you can then carefully begin to attempt to explain alternative viewpoints, challenge worldviews and open people up to new ideas. On the whole people do not like to feel like they are being challenged or being told they are wrong and will naturally get defensive. This applies to both sides.

Marketers and good salespeople have known the driving principles behind this methodology for a very long time. They always try to connect emotionally first and then justify with reason and logic. We need more people to take this approach not in marketing but in discourse and in helping to build Bridges as cheesy as it sounds.
 
Oct 27, 2017
229
I hate to be that guy, but on Earth are young right wing men gonna listen to a transwoman?
I haven't viewed the titles and structure of much of her content yet as I just found out about her from this thread. But if I were her or someone else taking this approach I would leverage the fact that on YouTube you literally judge things by their cover.

Hence I would use titles and imagery that would potentially appeal to supporting alt right views or on the surface I would make it look like I'm attacking them but in a specific manner designed to appeal to the troll like nature.

Interestingly she mentioned that she did copywriting work in the past which would give her an advantage in knowing how to potentially appeal and sell her video titles and thumbnails as well as her content to the alt right persona.

The more that I think about it the more I can see the power in this approach. In the sense that if you construct things and literally sell to the alt right but are selling a trojan horse on a larger scale this could be an effective way to combat them especially in relation too appealing to the youth before they are too heavily indoctrinated.

The problem is there aren't enough people with the skills required doing this or with the inclination to do this.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,891
It's a thin line to walk. As you say, not every troll is going to be worth the time or energy needed to empathize with, and sometimes shit is just wrong and needs to be called as such. Natalie is very good at condemning the ideology without necessarily condemning the person, unless said person has revealed themselves to just be, as she'd put it, a dicknugget. To use the incel video again, she is able to note that most incels are just regular guys who have fallen into a deep pit of depression and self-loathing while also saying her sympathy for them runs out as soon as they start harassing and harming others. It's not easy to do that without coming across like you're trying to give them a pass, and people on Era too often fall into the trap of defending the dicknuggets.
Yeah, it absolutely is a hard balance to strike. Which is why I believe people with good intentions eventually stop trying to walk it because it's tiresome in the face of a neverending stream of people known as the internet. This might be a tale from my ass, but I don't remember being so quick to swat people down 10 years ago, maybe even 5ish.
 
Nov 15, 2017
1,170
Yeah, it absolutely is a hard balance to strike. Which is why I believe people with good intentions eventually stop trying to walk it because it's tiresome in the face of a neverending stream of people known as the internet. This might be a tale from my ass, but I don't remember being so quick to swat people down 10 years ago, maybe even 5ish.
It's not from you ass because I feel it to. I think it's simply because social media (particularly Youtube and Twitter) have been such big parts of our lives and these conversations are literally unending. People are angry and so tired of having the same conversations that patience has run thin. Nevermind that many people on both sides of the political spectrum have realized you can make a decent living out of preying on people's "outrage" (especially young people) and it's not a good look for anyone. I feel like we're less concerned with changing hearts and minds these days and more concerned with winning the argument and proving our moral superiority.
 
May 31, 2018
4,161
You're exactly right. unless a person is somewhat versed in human behavior and psychology, they think that you can rationalize and talk to people to get them to understand why they may be wrong.

while that may work for a small percentage of people who have a certain type of mental composition and emotional disposition. The majority of folks need to first be connected to on an emotional level where are you can establish some rapport. Once you have found a space were you can agree and connect with a person,at on some level within some context you can then carefully begin to attempt to explain alternative viewpoints, challenge worldviews and open people up to new ideas. On the whole people do not like to feel like they are being challenged or being told they are wrong and will naturally get defensive. This applies to both sides.

Marketers and good salespeople have known the driving principles behind this methodology for a very long time. They always try to connect emotionally first and then justify with reason and logic. We need more people to take this approach not in marketing but in discourse and in helping to build Bridges as cheesy as it sounds.
Yeah, you put it into words better than I ever could. A fair chunk of politics, especially the whole "getting people onto your side" thing, is marketing and, unfortunately, marketing is not a skill that many people seem to actually have. Hell, it seems like most people still think that marketing is simply a matter of "getting the right information to people," when it's far, far more complicated. Personally, as someone with a background in marketing, I 'cringe' (for lack of a better term) often at some of the things people on the left say and do under the notion that they're 'helping' the problem.