ContraPoints on the "Feel the Bern" Podcast: "Speak to the center, speak to the general public" "Don't get caught up in being ideologically pure"

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Oct 25, 2017
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Extremely ironic that the Bernie campaign and Brie of all people would post this but it's good stuff.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,858
Great words to live by in terms of electoral politics. Its not compromising, its getting people who actually vote to vote for you.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,050
Wisconsin
Very ironic clip to choose given the state of Bernie's campaign, if only they had embraced that philosophy themselves things might have turned out differently
 

remz

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Oct 25, 2017
3,072

Extremely ironic that the Bernie campaign and Brie of all people would post this but it's good stuff.
Wait, how is it ironic?
 

jeelybeans

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Oct 25, 2017
3,843
Absolutely agree in terms of electoral politics. To get stuff done you need to frame it in a way that you actually get elected or get the votes needed to improve lives.

She's saying something pretty non-controversial although her past history means she's going to get wrecked.
 

xeecee

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Oct 27, 2017
1,419
i know we're all still mad at contra (i'm certainly not thrilled with her, obviously) this feels like a weird thing to pick at. this is a completely correct statement. not in the sense that you should move to the center yourself, but that talking to people who are nominally more centrist than you or feel that they're apolitical or whatever about things that matter to them (healthcare, the environment, unemployment, etc etc) is a great way to build a leftist coalition around core ideals.

Because Briahna does absolutely none of the things in the video on her own Twitter account. Their campaign is filled with hates liberals people who weren't actually interested in appealing to centrists during the campaign.
oh i see why you made this thread. lol. definitely in good faith!

Very ironic clip to choose given the state of Bernie's campaign, if only they had embraced that philosophy themselves things might have turned out differently
what the fuck are you talking about. people canvassing for bernie outside of typical online leftist spheres is a big part of how his campaign got so far
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
987
Great words to live by in terms of electoral politics. Its not compromising, its getting people who actually vote to vote for you.
This strategy barely works. If they know you are going to vote for them anyway regardless of what candidate they pick they will never have an incentive to vote for your candidate because your candidate is not THEIR candidate.
 

RailWays

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Oct 25, 2017
7,830
She isn't wrong. You cater your message to the ideal market, and we know who the consistent voting populace is.
 

ISOM

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Nov 6, 2017
2,596
So what would have made Bernie more electable compared to Biden? Should he have just completely abandon his progressive agenda and gone for general platitudes and slogans to get center/moderates who actually vote?
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,050
Wisconsin
what the fuck are you talking about. people canvassing for bernie outside of typical online leftist spheres is a big part of how his campaign got so far
Beyond the general antics of some of his online supporters, I'm talking about the focus on "the establishment" as a key part of Bernie's messaging as something that makes people feel defensive and turns them off from his campaign immediately. His campaign was fundamentally framed as an us vs them campaign without realizing that the average voter feels more aligned with the "them" in the analogy than the "us"
 

Autodidact

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Oct 25, 2017
18,424
So what would have made Bernie more electable compared to Biden? Should he have just completely abandon his progressive agenda and gone for general platitudes and slogans to get center/moderates who actually vote?
Making more overtures to the party's most dedicated constituency other than "I marched with MLK" would've been a nice start.
 

xeecee

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Oct 27, 2017
1,419
I made the thread because I agree with Contra's assessment and I'm glad that you do too!

I voted for Bernie in the CA primary. Much of his campaign staff was still piss poor.
fair enough, i apologize for jumping down your throat. however, i disagree that the sanders campaign didn't do this. like i mentioned, a huge amount of bernie's momentum came from people reaching out to other people about issues that mattered to them regardless of whether or not they were already nominally leftists, or even considered themselves "political", etc. the satellite caucuses, organizing casino workers, so on and so forth--the campaign did reach well outside the stereotypical left wing internet sphere
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
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Oct 25, 2017
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This strategy barely works. If they know you are going to vote for them anyway regardless of what candidate they pick they will never have an incentive to vote for your candidate because your candidate is not THEIR candidate.
In a ridiculously fractured two party system with massive voter suppression and gerrymandering, all working strategies barely work. There's no great strategy in this environment beyond enthusiasm - which can dishonestly and disastrously be ginned up by charisma, fear, hate, panic and idiocy.

If GE voting were afederal holiday or political vote manipulation actually put people in jail, our elections wouldn't be crafted by evil villains trying to use a completely information and reality bereft minority as a viable way to get elected.
 
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RastaMentality
Oct 25, 2017
9,586
So what would have made Bernie more electable compared to Biden? Should he have just completely abandon his progressive agenda and gone for general platitudes and slogans to get center/moderates who actually vote?
Not making your outreach conflict-based is a starter. AOC talked about this in a NYT inteview:
“There’s so much emphasis on making outreach as conflict-based as possible,” Ms. Ocasio-Cortez said. “And sometimes I even feel miscast and understood. Because it’s about what tools you use, and conflict is one tool but not the only tool.”
fair enough, i apologize for jumping down your throat. however, i disagree that the sanders campaign didn't do this. like i mentioned, a huge amount of bernie's momentum came from people reaching out to other people about issues that mattered to them regardless of whether or not they were already nominally leftists, or even considered themselves "political", etc. the satellite caucuses, organizing casino workers, so on and so forth--the campaign did reach well outside the stereotypical left wing internet sphere
And I agree. The Latinx outreach especially among young voters in the West was amazing and I saw it brewing here myself over the last 4 years. These strategies unfortunately didnt help as much in primaries across the nation and outside of caucus elections. Bernie's policies are popular and his brand can definitely bring in disaffected voters but you have to win the primary first.

A younger black Bernie probably wins this. Hell, 1980s Jesse Jackson probably wins this campaign.
 

muteKi

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Oct 22, 2018
13,157
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What she's saying about "speaking to the center" is actually what Sanders & co were saying about trying to target disengaged voters and the like. While this video seemingly takes the opposite tack (that 'preaching to the converted' is a valuable tool) its intro is I think a more coherent explanation of why what BJG and Wynn are saying aren't actually points in contradiction. This is why I'm saying this is different from "centrist" political philsophy, in which we presume two (only two, at least in the US) sides of an argument are valid and believe that the politically expedient (not necessarily correct) option lies somewhere in the middle between the two.

 

RailWays

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,830
So what would have made Bernie more electable compared to Biden? Should he have just completely abandon his progressive agenda and gone for general platitudes and slogans to get center/moderates who actually vote?
I don't think it has anything to do with Bernie's progressive agenda in this instance. Consider that the largest bloc of the primary are older voters who have tied their identity to the Democratic primary and the framing of "the establishment" by the campaign. Though I think beyond mere messaging the fact that the campaign did not make inroads with party leaders and figureheads was just as large of a detriment.

When you poll Bernie's agenda, the majority of the party want his policies, so I don't think his agenda was ever in question here. People unfortunately don't by-and-large vote for candidates solely off of policy. Crafting a brand image and message are also very important, even if ultimately superfluous in the grand scheme of things.
 

Tankette

Member
Oct 30, 2017
560
So what would have made Bernie more electable compared to Biden? Should he have just completely abandon his progressive agenda and gone for general platitudes and slogans to get center/moderates who actually vote?
Not shivving them in the back in every moment you can get (coughFOREXAMPLEWARRENcough) and stop taking credit for what others has done the heavy lifting, to start.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
987
In a ridiculously fractured two party system with massive voter suppression and gerrymandering, all working strategies barely work. There's no great strategy in this environment beyond enthusiasm - which can dishonestly and disastrously be ginned up by charisma, fear, hate, panic and idiocy.

If GE voting were afederal holiday or political vote manipulation actually put people in jail, our elections wouldn't be crafted by evil villains trying to use a completely information and reality bereft minority as a viable way to get elected.
See but also recognize that people will get tired of doing this.

What all of this boils down to is saying 'Keep swallowing shit and maybe we'll field your guy' and for the past since the founding of America this has never happened. Eventually I'm going to get tired of being a doormat, and unironically the only reason we are even here today in terms of progress is NOT because voting but because we decided to be 'inconvenient' by protesting 24/7, getting the shit beat out of us, burning a McDonalds or something and nose diving people's precious stocks portfolios.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,516
Well, maybe he can take this lesson and...give it to someone else I guess bc there's no way he's running again.
 
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