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Contrapoints - Opulence
- Thread starter CoolOff
- Start date
A transmedicalist, or truscum, is a type of trans person who believes that you HAVE to have dysphoria to have trans. And this largely manifests in ways like saying that people who transition and don't have dysphoria are somehow hurting the livelihoods of other trans people. As if they're the ones responsible for bigotry that we face.
In this video, she provided a platform to a very outspoken one known as Buck Angel.
Outside of that, you can read those tweets I posted before to see her own personal views on nonbinary people, and how she feels fearful about the future of trans acceptance because nonbinary people exist.
When using nonbinery you mean people who don't fit the tradition male/female genders correct?
Oh.
I see nothing wrong with that. Trans means no fitting a mold so it should be welcoming of it, not hating of it.
yes. how. truly. no one in here is sharpening pitchforks AT ALL.
she's not hating it. the way I read it is basically "here's this new thing that people aren't familiar with and adding another rather complicated concept onto another one people are already struggling with might frustrate them".
You could give the benefit of the doubt to other trans people who are speaking up about why what Natalie has said is hurtful, and why featuring Buck Angel is such a bad thing, rather than just assuming people have it out for Natalie for no reason and only listening to the one popular trans voice online.
Can you actually point out what you're referring to as people trying to cancel her instead of being vague?
thanks for assuming who I do and do not listen to, but do go off I guess
she just said she will get to explaining Buck Angel. once she did it I'll come back and gladly edit this post. maybe it's because she ends up being a huge piece of shit. idk?!
People are criticizing her.
Canceling, to my understanding, means taking her platform away, aka being banned from youtube/twitter/patreon or atleast demanding her resignation. Or trying to take away her place in the cultural sphere at least, which would be like discouraging Contrapoints threads on here. None of these are things anyone has called for.
okay since people are so hung up on this let me rephrase that: "people are giving her needless amounts of shit without enough context giving me the feeling that they're trying to start something"
also I am sure Natalie is well aware who Buck Angel is.
I'm not going to assume you listen to that many other trans people when you think people are just "trying to cancel Contrapoints", and aren't even considering reasons for why she's being criticized lol.
well instead of assuming you're just going to have to believe me that I do but you can also assume I only listen to Natalie because guess what, I'll never find out.
OK, but this "new thing" is people's fucking gender identities. Hand wringing about frustrating people is essentially advocating for the closet.
They're making that assumption because a lot of the people who speak up about the things she's said about NB people and Buck Angel are in fact trans, like me. She does a lot of good work, and she doesn't have to go away forever like some people seem to think we're implying. But, we should still be able to talk about mistakes she's making in videos that the thread is about, and her past relation to those topics
I didn't read it as advocating for either position, but I totally see how someone could see it as a little "egotistical" and "fuck you (don't quite) got mine (yet)".
don't get me wrong, I totally see where you are coming from. I just believe, or hope, that she didn't mean to be advocating for any non-acceptance.
I agree with you whole heartedly, I just prefer people didn't make assumptions about who I listen to.
Needless amounts of shit being... a few posts in a single thread on a forum?
I hope so either, but this isn't the first time something similar has happened. Let me elaborate on my first post in this thread. She wrote this as an addendum to one of her videos:
However, when people asked "what the fuck", the entire thread was deleted from Twitter. At the time, I really did believe that she had a better way of expressing her feelings, but I was more upset by the deletion and subsequent lack of ever mentioning it. A "cover up is worse than the crime" type situation that made me lose some respect for her as an academic, but not necessarily someone holding prejudices.
But now here we are, two controversies later.
I mean given the fact that Buck seems to be really shitty and making people mad, I agree.
If you want to be super cynical it's a publicity stunt to get people more antsy for her next video but also why hurt people in the process needlessly by featuring someone who doesn't seem to be welcomed by the trans community. Yeah, it's weird.
This reads more like "Oh fuck, I didn't think people would give me shit for having him on a video... uh, my next video will make it all make sense!"
Oh. This is very disappointing to see.Her content has in the past literally had problematic aspects to it that downplay nonbinary experiences, and she's reiterated how she feels about this on Twitter in situations like this :
Her explanation that there will be an explanation in her next video was behind a paywall for her patreons, and requires you to continue to contribute to her income as well. This isn't the first time that she's done something like this. At a certain point, people are going to have accept that she is perfectly capable of being problematic in her own ways
I suppose I should have expected it to exist, but that's some real "LGBT-drop-the-NB"-type shit. It's practically the same argument that "LGB-drop-the-T" people use against trans folks.
well fuck, that's REAL shitty. guess I have some patreon money freeing up real soon.
Guess I wasn't all caught up. My apologies.
It's news to me that there are people who transition who don't have gender dysphoria. I thought both go hand in hand. Don't non binary people experience gender dysphoria as well? It's like people who don't identify with either genders. So they feel out of place inside of their own bodies even when it's less defined than binary gender dysphoria.
Why would we have to wait until her next video to find out why he was in this one? Does he appear in that one too?
oh fucking GROSS
inviting truscum to appear on your video is not a good look
if you are going to give people shit for actually seeing a discussion through and then changing their minds based on the evidence presented ... idk. kinda whack.
If she actually had a good reason for having Buck Angel on it sure is irresponsible to not explain it in the actual video he's in and instead wait a month to do so.
It's more like "someone who is actively antagonistic to the trans community."
Some NB people probably feel dysphoric. I am figuring out my own gender shit right now. I don't experience dysphoria, but I sure as fuck know I am not cis (beyond that 🤷♂️).
I wonder if it's going to be about debate, platforming, and her friendship with Theryn, but even that really doesn't excuse the inclusion in this video and waiting 1-2 months for an explanation, not to even suggest that a video covering the issue would excuse it.
It makes more sense when you understand that the concept of gender euphoria exists as well. While I experienced gender dysphoria, and I largely transitioned to stop the negative feelings that were bouncing around inside of me, there are other people who don't experience that and still transition. They do this because while they might not be distressed about their current situation, they feel that they would be happier if they started presenting a certain way, used certain pronouns, or medically transition. It gives them comfort, excitement, joy, and just happiness. It's a euphoria, and it's something that I experience when I manage to push back against dysphoria as well. I'm not sure if that's the most clear way to describe that, but life isn't just about preventing yourself from feeling bad. If someone feels that doing any of the above things will make them happier, then they're just as valid as any of the rest of us and they certainly don't have to meet any thresholds of pain to be a part of our community.
Non-binary people are capable of experiencing dysphoria as well, but that's something that varies from person to person.
Her content has in the past literally had problematic aspects to it that downplay nonbinary experiences, and she's reiterated how she feels about this on Twitter in situations like this :
Her explanation that there will be an explanation in her next video was behind a paywall for her patreons, and requires you to continue to contribute to her income as well. This isn't the first time that she's done something like this. At a certain point, people are going to have accept that she is perfectly capable of being problematic in her own ways
Oh she can fuck right off
All trans people are valid, fucking period
I'm going to give you shit for coming in bemoaning people for taking issue while completely uninformed. Being blunt - it's fucking irritating, it happens relentlessly. The burden is always on those within to tolerate being mocked or eye-rolled for their objections while simultaneously having to educate those doing so.
Has she called their validity into question? She's done the opposite in her videos.
This (though glad to see you changed your mind about this stuff since). Also, if she actually tried to learn from her mistakes and listened to people's concerns about what what she says and the people she sometimes works with, then I imagine there wouldn't be as much ire towards her. But as it's been mentioned, this sort of stuff isn't new from her. And since she's probably the trans person with the loudest voice online, with people listening to her for explanations of trans topics, that's both incredibly concerning and frustrating for trans people who have to deal with the fallout from that. People will likely think of me as a nuisance because Contrapoints said we are to "conventional binary transsexuals".
I'm non-binary and yeah I still experience gender dysphoria. But also, someone can be comfortable with the gender they were assigned at birth with and still rather be transgender. Saying there needs to be a reason to transition is just unnecessary gatekeeping.
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yeah honestly fuck me for wanting to give the benefit of the doubt to... natalie fucking wynn.
Relevant threads from Jack Saint and Sarah Zedig. It is legit disappointing to see Left tubers close ranks and go radio silent on this. Especially Hbomberguy and Olly Thorn.
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No, that's not it. Don't reframe.
It's that you came in and criticized those taking issue while uninformed. You can give someone the benefit of the doubt without shooting down others who aren't.
If hbomb and Philosophy Tube go at her for this they know it'd open the door for extra scrutiny against them in the future.
Try again then. It's very clear.
(Why do I have the feeling this is going to be yet another thread full of fucking cissplaining to us trans folx)