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Contrapoints - Opulence
- Thread starter CoolOff
- Start date
Skimming the pastebin this sentence kind of stuck with me. There's a sad truth to that. With all the recent leftube drama it's rather obvious that none of the leftubers are well equipped to handle fuckups and navigate the hellhole that social media can be in these situations. On the flip side it feels like the audience is not giving those people the time to work through their fuckups and come out better on the other side either.
Not related per say but I just saw this story about an AEW wrestler talking about homophobic tweets he made 9 years ago and this should be the level of apology we expect from public people who do this sort of thing.
Really puts this situation in context for how bad Natalie has done.
Really puts this situation in context for how bad Natalie has done.
Not giving her the time?
Months of poor relations with non-binary people and then decides to feature someone that doesn't believe they should exist before imploring those same people to consider his feelings and to maybe not be harsh on him.
Most people I know supported her through the misdemeanours - through being put down, dismissed, insulted and mocked by her fans in every instance - until it ramped up a notch out of nowhere with this. Most are being critical of her actions alongside that and expressing their frustrations and disappointment in doing so.
How much time exactly should we give her despite the above, and what exactly should we do other than hush as we have been told to before in each instance?
That's the problem though there is no right answer to that because Natalie Wynn is obviously a flawed person like everyone and to move to a better position absolutely can take weeks, months, years for some people. I still want them to DO that and in the meantime no one obviously is forced to like that person but after an initial justified wave of criticism what's the point of dragging her down to the point of destroying someone till they feel like they are not a person but a "collage of problematic tweets"? If you haven't noticed this thread has on the last page found common ground with KF of all places, a website that makes a point out of misgendering and deadnaming trans folks at every opportunity. Does that feel like a productive outcome? It doesn't to me.
Yep. She's trying to make it look like people ran her off Twitter. And she'll say "but they canceled me" even though that's absolutely fucking false.
She could have, you know, just apologized instead.
It's not a problem though, you're just making it out to be one. You're the only one that suggested there's an invalid amount of time for people to wait before deciding they've had enough.
Who here is doing that? Why not ask that to the people actually making her feel that way?
Furthermore, why is your sole concern around an internet personality and not the community they've repeatedly trodden on?
This is pretty hard to keep level at, to be honest. You have someone give such a poor non-apology that it's caused a backlash from the community they originally hurt, and made internet shitholes gleeful at the drama. So you go to the community hurt and ask them whether their upset is productive because trolls that always fucking target and mock them are continuing to do that same thing?
I would just like to say that it's not but that's certainly a fair read of my post. I tried writing a longer post but it was too much of a wordsalad which is why I cut down to the contrapoints part.
I viewed it more as engaging with the communities I'm part of (era & the queer community) but fair enough. Point taken.
Edit: CW Truscum rant.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/er...-than-the-giftbot.150087/page-7#post-26204327
So this confession just showed up in the confessions thread. I figured it was relevant to the thread since it makes direct mention of Natalie and is about NB people as well.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/er...-than-the-giftbot.150087/page-7#post-26204327
So this confession just showed up in the confessions thread. I figured it was relevant to the thread since it makes direct mention of Natalie and is about NB people as well.
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Hey, like, I know this is the Contrapoints thread, but can you put a content warning or something when you link to some truscum asshole ranting about how my existence offends them?
This whole discourse is really opening my eyes to just how unapologetically shitty some binary trans people are. Non-binary trans people really need to be at the forefront of the trans rights movement, and those of us in binary need to give them all the support we can.
lol "common ground" the fact you're trying to imply that I was suggesting that KF was good in anyway is hilarious. I specifically pointed out that they were being transphobic and called them a den of hate. Realising that even blatant transphobes understand what she did wrong better than she did doesn't mean I'm buddying up to them in any way
Oh look a truscum emboldened about their opinion because "Natalie believes what I do". Who could have possibly seen this coming. That was just fucking terrible
this thread? I'm the one who brought them up, nobody else? The only responses was a deradicalising joke and a Holy Shit. How is that the "thread" finding "common ground". If you want to say that I was wrong to bring them up then just say so, don't try to tar the thread all under the same brush. and lol "common ground" the fact you're trying to imply that I was suggesting that KF was good in anyway is hilarious. I specifically pointed out that they were being transphobic and called them a den of hate. Realising that even blatant transphobes understand what she did wrong better than she did doesn't mean I'm buddying up to them in any way.
That was just fucking terrible to read. The fact they feel "Natalie believes what I believe" is exactly why Natalie needs to apologise
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What the FUCK
Fuck that truscum bigot trying to be the arbiter of who is and isn't trans.
Kind of wish that dipshit would out themselves so we could just get them off of here. Holy shit that's fucking infuriating.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to catch a slap soon because of the discontent I've been posting but it really needs to be addressed and that needs to be to the community. That thread on addressing trans concerns was the perfect stage to do so and they actively chose not to.
Then you have things like that signal boosted here, with people already doing the whole "oh I'm glad a trans person finally gave their views" routine now they've found someone to validate their bullshit off of.
I was irritated going to bed but transcended when waking up to that, Ketkat having to once again do as we do and correct it for people browsing casually and then she's ignored by the mods around her when asking why exactly that is being boosted in the first place.
Then you have things like that signal boosted here, with people already doing the whole "oh I'm glad a trans person finally gave their views" routine now they've found someone to validate their bullshit off of.
I was irritated going to bed but transcended when waking up to that, Ketkat having to once again do as we do and correct it for people browsing casually and then she's ignored by the mods around her when asking why exactly that is being boosted in the first place.
Completely, and in turn why that post being boosted is a problem. Already you have members doing the "ah, finally, a trans perspective" line and that's just the person bold enough to post it. You know more have bookmarked that shit ready to throw at us in the next thread about non-binary concerns.
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Good, should have been hours ago when it was flagged though. Now if we could address the issue at large and have some official communication toward them we might be able to gravitate toward things getting better for trans threads around here.
It wasn't reported. I stumbled across it this morning after I woke up, and then it was removed. We've added it as a rule in the OP to make clear that those kinds of confessions aren't allowed. Thank you to everyone in this thread who has been taking the time to explain and raise all of these important issues.
Appreciate your response Mist, and please considering the overarching concerns because simply removing the straw that broke the camels back isn't going to get it back up and running again. Being honest, I'm tired and I'm frustrated and I'm far from the only one. As said in the confession thread the template for trans threads on the forum is one page of discussion and fourteen of having to validate that upset, and that seems to just be accepted now. Every page, every thread the same story. It's like Groundhog Day in them, except we don't even get a cute animal to aid in the frustration.
I dislike bemoaning the moderation (as an act that's applied) because I like the moderators and some, including a certain unlucky giftbot gambler, are among the nicest people I've met on here. However you have to separate the individual mod from the overall moderation, and sometimes the latter can fall behind at times as it requires a perspective above that of the individual actions and occurences. That seems to have fallen out of step more and more in this area recently. That thread does a good job of highlighting it but honestly, you could go into any trans thread for the past few months and see it in action. It's like a bad magic trick. Pick a page and I bet you the post I'm describing is there.
So please excuse the bite in some of the posts, because it comes from a place of frustration and upset over ill-will. But in doing so please also consider the thread linked, the wider sentiment and see for yourself the absolute detritus we've have to almost self-moderate in each case.
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I don't know much about the Laurelai Bailey rape accusations (or who she even is), seems like a real mess. I'll have to read up on it more later.
Didn't see the post, but knowing there's a truscum that has been emboldened by Contrapoints' video and actions here is simultaneously a bit scary and saddening.
Good
But as noted above, that's just treating the symptom, not the disease. The site needs a clearer stance that cis people dismissing trans folx' lived experiences and telling us we're wrong about our own community is unacceptable.
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Hard agree. The mods have been playing fast and loose with this for too long.